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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:29 pm 
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Howdy,

Those following my painting blog will know I have a tournament at the weekend. Its a UK rankings event and i expect to get totally battered on all fronts. However, in the name of Ulthuan, I will stand in glory to a man(elf!).

My first game is against O&G's and i have no idea what to expect since the arrival of their new book. The player is ranked as one of the best in Europe with O&G's so i'm not holding my breath, but i would like to know what i should look out for, what i should avoid, what not to be scared of etc etc.

I know I know, you want to see my army list to give best pos advice, however i'm not posting it until after the event just incase there are any spies!!! :-$

So i thought we could use this thread as general reference point for all of Ulthuan to use to comment on the best ways to combat our foes - Kinda like the old enemy of the month.
(hmmmmmm, idea brewing...)

[Opens discussion to the floor]

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:47 pm 
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Yo Brian,

Things to look out for (to my knowledge) are:

Cheap war machines in large numbers. Rock lobbers, doom divers and at least 3 spear chukkas. If your opponent's clever he'll spread them around a little bit to prevent a single unit of yours from clearing them out all at once. Eagles, small cavalry units or scouts are your friends here.

Big troll units. units of 6 and up are fielded by loads of players. Beware the troll horde! Throw fire at them, obv. Their big problem is leadership, so they'll either have to stick close to the general or they'll be led by an infantry character. Character sniping spells can take this little leader out and make stupidity tests a problem. Lore of Death him in the face.

Massive infantry units. Blocks of 100 goblins, often containing a bunch of goblin big bosses with great weapons, are a common feature. Horde-melting spells (Dwellers, Flames of the Phoenix) make them cry, though, and if you hit them with an elite unit alongside a spear-column of 35 or so they'll break easily. Wiping out small units nearby (war machines, chariots etc) can cause serious problems: if you force enough panic tests, even the largest goblin block will eventually run away if it isn't close to a lord character.

Savage orc hordes will often be fielded with Wurzag so they get a 5+ ward save from their warpaint*. I haven't faced one of these yet, but this unit sounds pretty scary. I wouldn't take it on at full strength, but then you won't need to fight it until you're ready. Frenzy means the unit has to overrun, so a single sacrificial eagle-roadblock, angled properly, will pull this horde out of position and mess up your opponent's advance real nice.
Edit: And from the Shrunken Head, as described below.

I've seen Black orc hordes a few times- usually with a fighting lord character sat in the middle of them. They look scary but, really, they're not too bad. 5+ AS means shooting can really mess them up but, more particularly, they really can't cut it against our elites in close combat. We absolutely ruin them and, unless you're not getting the right charges, they really shouldn't be steadfast by the end of combat. BO lords often tank up and wield great weapons: be prepared for a Str8 enemy lord during the first turn of combat.

All orc hordes are vulnerable to combo-charges because of their wide frontage. Take advantage of this.

Orc Elites. Typically, our elites> their elites. Their elites are, however, amazing at tearing up our core troops. Don't point a spear column at a black orc unit unless it's well buffed or properly supported by elites. It'll die.

Impact hits. Orcs and goblins can field large numbers of cheap chariots, plus pump wagons. Arguments rage over whether wolf chariots or pump wagons are better (the former has reliable movement, the latter more damage potential), but, in any case, impact hits ought to be a big feature of any greenskin army expecting to face elves. Archers and bolt throwers make goblin chariots cry (they've only got 3 wounds), so pack in some ranged attacks and or some defensive unit buffs (Life/High magic) and you'll be fine.

Magic. Goblin mages are incredibly cheap and Night Goblin mages get access to lots of power by eating mushrooms. Take some defensive magic items. And don't let the big Bad Moon go off! It sucks.

Fanatics. Draw them out early with eagles, sit back and watch the carnage. But you knew that already.

Squig Hordes. Apparently these are quite popular. I've played against one once in a test game a few weeks ago (my opposite number was using proxies). In conclusion, they hit very hard but they're also very easy to kill. Arrows and multiple-bolts will hurt them badly and you should be able to scatter them with a strong charge once the arrows have gone to work. If I see a goblin horde featuring blocks of 100 gobbos, a troll horde and a squig horde, I'll shoot and charge through the squig horde: it's not as tough as the trolls and not as numerous as the gobbos so, for me, it's the ideal gateway into a greenskin army which, if they take all gobbos, is likely to stretch across most of the board. Focus your missile fire and combo-charges.


That's all I can think of for now. Hope this helps!

Edit: Another thing!

Target Priority. There's too much stuff in the greenskin army for you to take on all at once. Refused-flank deployment, focused magic & missile fire and combo charges are more important against greenskins than against most other armies. You'll notice that a lot of the tips above say 'shoot it', 'magic it' or 'combo-charge it'. Obviously you can't do all these things at once to all the greenskin units!

Cavalry. I had to mention it... I find, personally, that having all the movement really makes all the focussing stuff mentioned above a lot easier. The greenskin movement phase can often go disastrously wrong: your eagles will slow up those wide hordes, they'll fail animosity tests and, if your ranged stuff does well enough, panic tests. Having fast units to exploit all this mayhem and focus on the enemy's weak points, or get round the flanks, can really help.

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Last edited by Seredain on Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:24 pm 
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I am sure you are a much better player than I but I will still throw in my two cents. A player in my group has an orc & goblin army that I play a bunch.

Seradin covered it really well! I would just reiterate make him take as many leadership tests as possible. If you can get any of his units out of his generals bubble then they are doomed. I like taking a RGoH death prince to snipe out his leaders (bsb I think only has leadership eight).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:50 pm 
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Well, Seredain has covered a good chunk, but I'll give input anyway :wink:
I agree with him on the warmachines in that it is very possible to seen 2 doomdivers and/or 2 rock lobbers, but I doubt you will see all that many bolt throwers. They're only 35 points, but they don't tend to hit much because of terrible goblin Ballistic Skill and they misfire on 1s. This keeps most players from taking them. Shooting from the list as a whole can be decent, but it usually won't consist of more than the 2 to 4 warmachines in rare and possibly a unit of goblins with short bows.

Other than that, competitive builds will usually feature a level 4 orc or savage orc caster, sometimes a night goblin if they feel adventurous, which will prevent them from taking their general, usually a black orc warboss (lord), from taking a wyvern. Their magic is actually surprisingly strong with a lvl 4 orc and a handful of night goblin casters because the spells aren't too expensive to cast other than the boosted version of "Curse of da Bad Moon" (their vortex spell in the goblin lore which makes you take a test on either strength, toughness, or initiative), and the night goblins get what effectively amounts to an extra power die per spell. If it rolls a 1 then bad things happen, but they're cheap night goblins so nobody cares. In addition, the lore attribute for the goblin spells allows them, for every successful spell, to steal a dispel die from you on a 5+. This means that if you just let the little spells through, you still may not have enough dispel dice left when the big spell that you want to stop comes around.
Something that doesn't seem important at the time but is worth watching for is a spell called "Fists of Gork". It is a RiP spell that gives +3 attacks and +3 strength, and you'll often find them using it on their casters as they get into combat (or a bit before to make you waste resources dispelling it), making what would otherwise be pretty much a normal orc into a combat monster.

Core units: The O&G are spoiled for selection throughout their book, though for the most part no one choice stands out. You will rarely see (savage or normal) orc arrer boyz or simple common goblins, but everything else is fair game. Note, that if you do see common goblins they will undoubtedly have nasty skulkers hidden in the unit, which are pretty much ASF and killing blow goblins with 2 attacks. Up to 3 can be in a unit for 10 points a piece, so you'll be facing 6 killing blow asf attacks, though with a goblin statline of weapon skill 2 with strength 3. Still something to watch out for because they could always KB your general!

One of the units you might see are Orc Boyz, almost always upgraded to Big Uns. These guys will be strength 5 on the first round of combat which can make them pretty brutal to go up against, and if they are Big Uns then they can take a magic standard. If they don't take the upgrade, don't worry too much. Just normal Boyz, even with additional hand weapons, can usually be beaten by a unit of spearmen (though the orcs still have a chance in the first round of combat where they'll be strength 4. In the second they'll drop to 3)

Savage Orcs: These guys may also be upgraded to Big Uns, which gives them an extra pip of strength, but only 1 unit of Big Uns can be taken per army. They will always be armed with 2 hand weapons, giving them 3 attacks a piece at strength 4/5 in the first round of combat (frenzy+choppa rule). It can be quite nasty. Their weakness is that without taking a a savage orc shaman with a 50 point arcane magic item their save is only a 6+ ward (5+ with the Lucky Shrunken Head). Regardless, these guys will really pound the T3 high elves and eat something like a spearmen unit really easily. Getting a flank charge with a unit of dragon princes, or pretty much any unit in fact, is a wonderful way to deal with these guys because they lose the choppa rule after the first round of combat (so are strength 3/4) and lose frenzy when they don't win that round. 2 strength 3/4 attacks are much less scarey than 3 strength 4/5.
As Seredain mentioned, you will often see these guys in a horde formation with multiple characters and while being upgraded to Big Uns. If everything goes as planned for your opponent the unit puts out 55ish strength 5+ attacks and has a 5+ ward save. With a small frontage of only 6 attacking rather than the whole horde of 10, it's still 35 or so attacks at strength 5+ which will completely devastate any high elf unit. You really cannot deal with the savage orc horde as a high elf player and have to redirect it (rather easy because it's frenzied and has to overrun or pursue) until it becomes more manageable. If you are offered a flank charge with dragon princes, it's usually worth taking because you have the off-chance of winning and removing their frenzy, though it's not likely. When you the break from combat they will be forced to pursue the DPs off in the wrong direction, hopefully setting up another flank charge, this time with ranked infantry! The same can be done with the overrun from a correctly-placed eagle.

Night Goblins: These are incredibly cheap, weighing in at 3 points per model, so expect to see them in large units. However, even in large units they will be eaten by high elf spears. Things to watch for are fanatics (lure these out with great eagles by getting within 8 inches of the NG unit) which can make quite a mess and the Netter upgrade for the unit. It will reduce your strength by 1, making spears or such strength 2. Nearly all NG units will have fanatics and/or nets.
Note that all goblins fear elves, so don't forget to remind your opponent to take the checks! At leadership 5 out of general range they'll fail a few.

Wolf Riders and Spider Riders: Cheap fast cav. Easily expendable and in the core section, so expect to see plenty. The wolf riders are cheap and quick with movement 9, while the spiders are slightly more expensive but have poison, can assault buildings, and can climb over obstacles (even impassable terrain). The wolf riders are the more popular choice.

Special Units:
Black Orcs: You will rarely see large units of black orcs, say over 25. These guys have the "Armed to da Teef" rule which allows them to use any equipment they want in combat, be it a great weapon, 2 HWs, or a shield. The main reason that someone takes black orcs over normal ones is 1, they have already used their single Big Uns upgrade and 2, the black orcs don't suffer from animosity and are immune to psychology. Psychology and animosity are the great weaknesses of the orc army, so anything that mitigates it is useful. This is the same reason that you'll see lots of black orc characters around; they prevent their unit from suffering animosity. With a 5+ or 4+/6++ save, black orcs aren't all that much of a problem over normal orcs and can usually be handled by one of the high elf elite infantry units, but be warned that they can also be strength 7 in the first round of combat with their great weapons, so don't expect armour saves.
They can take a magic banner, so I often have a guy at the local club who gives them the standard of discipline and puts his general in the unit, making for a leadership 10 general.

Boar Boyz: People will almost exclusively take the savage kind rather than their normal brethren. 3 strength 4 attacks a piece plus the strength 3 from the war boar can be pretty deadly. However, boar boyz in general don't seem all that common in my area.

Chariots: They can either take more expensive Orc chariots of the cheaper goblin kind. Goblin chariots are relatively easy to kill with only 3 wounds at toughness 4. Regardless, you're getting hit by D6+1 S5 impact hits. They're quite easy to spam, sometimes along with pump wagons if someone is so inclined. Makes it worth taking some shooting because an army will have some chariots, pump wagons, fanatics, fast cav, and mangler squigs or some combination. There will always be a target worth shooting with your RBTs and archers in an O&G army.

Suig hoppers are sometimes around because they put out a decent amount of attacks (2 strength 5 and 1 strength 3) and have the random movement rules. This allows the to charge in all sorts of funny ways and be quite deadly to small units. I wouldn't worry about them too much though because the units are usually relatively small (otherwise they take up too much board space because they're skirmishers) with no armour. ASF makes short work of squig hoppers.

Squig herds on the other hand are much more common. A horde of 30 squigs and 10 handlers costs a mere 270 points. With 2 strength 5 attacks a piece it can potentially put out 30 strength 5 attacks, though more usually it will put 21 on a 5-wide unit. Regardless, it really hurts. The good news about the squigs is that they have no armour, and so are pretty easy to kill, but the bad news is that if they break from combat they explode, damaging all the units around them (O&G as well) with strength 5 hits. Something like a nearby eagle or unit of dragon princes could easily get vaped or brought below effective unit size.

Trolls: Trolls have a unit size of 1+, so even though it seems odd people will often run a lone troll (it's only 35 points after all). I've also seen huge troll units of 8+. Seems to me that the happy medium is somewhere in the middle and you'll probably see either units of 4 or 6. Trolls need to be by the general (they're leadership 4) to be effective at all because the have stupidity, so you'll rarely see more than 1 unit. It should be handily beaten by any of the high elf elite infantry units, and you don't really have other targets for a unit with the flaming banner in an O&G army, so this is a good place to point them at. Charging them with cavalry is iffy because you just don't have the numbers to survive the vomit attack which ignores armour (1 per troll). If you can get a flank charge with dragon princes though, it's probably worth it (you can't be stomped). If you can get the trolls out of general range they will spend the remainder of the game shambling forward about 4 inches at a time and not be much of a problem.

The other 2 specials, snotlings and spear chukkas, will rarely be seen (I've actually never seen a snotling swarm on the board).

Rare Units: You will see the warmachines, the rock lobbers and doom divers. They're relatively easy to take out with eagles or scouts.

Pump wagons: Pump wagons, unupgraded, are pretty much chariots with random movement (3D6) and 2D6 impact hits. If they start giving them upgrades they can have 4D6 movement and not allow armour saves on the charge. Try your best not to let them charge you, but sometimes there's just no stopping them. Just don't let them charge your cavalry units, because it will really, really hurt.

Mangler Squigs: New this edition, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of O&G armies take 2. The thing has random movement 3D6 and works like a fanatic when it hits an enemy unit. Thing is, it does 2D6 strength 6 hits, which is obscene. You really don' want a mangler going through your lines. What's worse, is if you step on it to get rid of it (like a fanatic), it does 3D6 strength 6 hits instead. So if one of these guys is sitting in your charge lane or you end a pursue on top of one your unit is effectively doomed. Shoot them (3 T4 wounds with -1 to hit) or step on them with eagles. It's also rather funny to watch the look on your opponent's face when you step on a mangler with an archmage in floralith's robes and take no damage (this is in fact what I use my ethereal slann for in my lizardmen army).

Arachnarok Spiders: You'll probably only ever see 1 of these on the board because people need their rare allotment for taking warmachines. It's quite a nasty bug with 8 wounds, 8 strength 5 attacks, 8 strength 4 attacks and toughness 6 (not to mention a 4+ save and stubborn ld 6). You want to ping a few wounds off of it before you face it in combat so that you can actually kill the bug, but if it is in a solo charge to the front of a high elf infantry unit (even spears really), you will likely eventually grind it down and win. Note that it's immune to psychology so it can't actually flee from your charges. White lions will make short work of an arachnarok.

Giants have no armour and toughness 5, so pretty much just shoot them or hit them with lots of attacks. With only 6 wounds they can even be taken out by a unit of spearmen if you roll ok (you have steadfast after all). I honestly doubt that you'll see a giant in a tournament army.


Dang that was long-winded. But O&G are really one of those armies where there is no one build. Watch out for manglers and fanatics, and against pretty much any O&G army you can never have enough great eagles and throwaway units because you're either dealing with their chaff, luring fanatics, hunting warmachines, stepping on manglers, or redirecting their deathstar units (if they bring one). Or all of the above.
As always with a high elf army, if they have more units than you (and they will), deploy in a refused flank or use terrain to break up their army.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:47 pm 
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Good summaries so far.

The most brutal build I've seen for 2400/2500 games so far is:

-Black or Savage Orc Warlord kept cheap, with Potion of Strength/Speed for one guaranteed turn of offensive killing power to help hack up monsters or rank-and-file.
-Savage Orc Great Shaman with Shrunken Head and Weapon Skill 10. His stat line is decent for combat, he'll have Toughness 5 and a 5+ Ward, and the choppa rule plus two hand weapons gives him decent hitting power as well.
-Savage Orc Big 'Uns: They're in every decent 8th edition I've seen that isn't pure goblins. They're very standard now, and the 5+ Ward and respectable WS4 is tough to shift.
-Black Orcs: reliable, and I often see units of 30 to 40.
-Squig Herds: I think they're the real darlings of 8th edition. Cheap to fill out their numbers because of the inexpensive handlers that fill up the back rank, but they're pure chewing power with the same number of Strength 5 Attacks as a Swordmaster.
-Huge goblin bunkers: Cheap, and Steadfast forever.

Fill out the rest of the list with pump wagons, mangler squigs, goblin chariots and trolls for cheap, reliable damage and that's a very strong combat army with free-flying damage and great prolonged combat ability.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:21 am 
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grantmepower wrote:
Charging them with cavalry is iffy because you just don't have the numbers to survive the vomit attack which ignores armour (1 per troll). If you can get a flank charge with dragon princes though, it's probably worth it (you can't be stomped). If you can get the trolls out of general range they will spend the remainder of the game shambling forward about 4 inches at a time and not be much of a problem.

Is the vomit attack considered a breath attack? Cause in that case Dps would get their 2+ dragon armour wardsave against it.

Rod

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:33 am 
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rdghuizing wrote:
grantmepower wrote:
Charging them with cavalry is iffy because you just don't have the numbers to survive the vomit attack which ignores armour (1 per troll). If you can get a flank charge with dragon princes though, it's probably worth it (you can't be stomped). If you can get the trolls out of general range they will spend the remainder of the game shambling forward about 4 inches at a time and not be much of a problem.

Is the vomit attack considered a breath attack? Cause in that case Dps would get their 2+ dragon armour wardsave against it.

Rod

It is not. It just says:
O&G pg 57 wrote:
A unit of Trolls can make Vomit Attacks instead of their ordinary attacks in close combat. Each Troll is allowed to make a single Vomit Attack at Strength 5. Trolls that are allowed to make supporting attacks can make a Vomit Attack. A Vomit Attack hits automatically and no armour saves are allowed.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:00 am 
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rdghuizing wrote:
Is the vomit attack considered a breath attack? Cause in that case Dps would get their 2+ dragon armour wardsave against it.

Rod


Trolls having flaming attacks wouldn't make sense what with them having regeneration

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:27 am 
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Andrew_uk wrote:
Trolls having flaming attacks wouldn't make sense what with them having regeneration

Dragon armour not only gives a 2+ ward against flaming attacks, but also against ALL breath attacks (see p57 of the HE brb). So it does matter if vomit is considered a breath attack or not.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:37 am 
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Throgg has a Breath attack but normal trolls no, as said.

Also I think Big T has the option to just vomit 'normally'.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Brian Mage wrote:
Kinda like the old enemy of the month.


Just noticed this, what happened to the enemy of the month idea? Would someone be willing to restart it on a regular basis? I think it needs someone to manage it (basically starting the thread once a month and kicking it off), I used to find it really helpful. Might be even better if the tactics ect proposed over the month were condensed into one post for ease of reference as with the eagles thread.

Tactica like the Eagles thread, the reavers one and Seredains Cavalry prince all make excellent resources for the introductory players; more intermediate players who are experienced against one army but lack experience of all of the armies could always benefit from the enemy of the month style tactica and if it's condensed at the end of the month into one post then that one might well be good to just print off and read (even bring it to your battles for reference!). The benefit of being able to include many fancy diagrams now as is done in battle reports would also help the quality of the advice and explanations of tactica.

On a more general note didn't there used to be a monthly ulthuan magazine of some kind? With a storytelling section, a painting article section, a small painting competition and a couple of other bits? We should ressurect both and include the condensed version of the enemy of the month in that!

EDIT: Or better still someone could make an index thread like Sturren did for the painting forum. Then just reference everything in there and sticky it in tactics. One section on list design and playstyle; referencing development threads such as dragon ones, magic heavy ones and cavalry ones, another section on tips and tricks for certain units referencing all the many threads that are already full of quality tactica and one section for facing various enemies.

In fact I shall do this now!

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About Orcs and Goblins: I have only faced them once this edition at 1500 pts. What I got out of it: shoot the manglers and always, ALWAYS dispel the goblin lore vortex (especially if they use the powered version). Manglers can be shot pretty effectively, so that isn't a huge issue if you plan for it. They should be target #1 for archers. The vortex is just too deadly to let through if you can help it.

Also about Trolls: the opponent I played took them entirely to use as eagles. He had 4 units of 1 troll. This makes them less-reliable and slower, but more durable eagles, but the principle of their use is the same: they are there to prevent your charges or re-direct you once you get close. As they are slower, their primary purpose in this formation is to set up counter-charges. They do not have the speed to slow deathstars, so that is a potential weakness. Against MSU armies though, this tactic can be deadly. If you rely on maneuvering (like I do), they should also be high on your priority list for targets of magic and shooting. Otherwise, they will get in the way of your counter charges as you close in. They will always be in the general's LD bubble if used this way, though, so its usage is limited. Best bet is to shoot at them as you destroy the units that don't get their benefit as re-directors, and don't engage the enemy general's unit until they are taken care of, or until they have too few to re-direct all of your units.

Andrew_uk wrote:
Just noticed this, what happened to the enemy of the month idea? Would someone be willing to restart it on a regular basis? I think it needs someone to manage it (basically starting the thread once a month and kicking it off), I used to find it really helpful. Might be even better if the tactics ect proposed over the month were condensed into one post for ease of reference as with the eagles thread.


I could do it for certain armies, and could get it started and/or organized/condensed for others. Some armies I could definitely have a good start with (with additions from other people), are Daemons, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Tomb Kings, and possibly dwarves. The rest I would need significant help with, but I feel I could write a synopsis based on the input of others. Obviously, Ogres and Brets should be held until their new book comes out (later this year, if rumors are correct). I could take the helm of that operation if people wish it to come back.

I was also considering starting a lore of magic tactica article. I was planning on making it mathematical (calculating average casting value, and average range of all spells and their variants to explore usage and to explore what type of dice allocation is required to help people who are less mathematically inclined. I would then explore (and ask for suggestions) of uses of other spells in the lore to evaluate the usages of each spell, the usage of the lore as a whole, and to evaluate specific tactics and what army build and HE units it combines best with. I could start this up as well if people wanted (lore of the month too?), but I would need to wait until after my tournament in August to get it fully up and running, as I am a bit bogged down with work in my research lab and the massive amount of painting and play-testing I have left to do before my army is ready for the tourney. Starting two new forums of the month would be a tad bit overwhelming, since I am trying to apply for an MD/PhD spot as well at this time.

Another idea: we could do call-outs to specific members to evaluate something in their specialty if they are interested (to spread the work around a bit and so we know the author knows enough to sort through the replies he is given, rather than have me write something on, say, the Lore of Fire which I have never used). All that would be required is a standard analysis method/format and any known and successful member could write it up and compile other people's input to put on Andrew's new forum.

Also, unit of the month would be good (to add to the eagle article that is already present, and the reavers article that is under way). This whole thing would take some work but if we succeeded and stuck with it, these analysis articles could really contribute to the ulthuan.org community (and help us update the Library of Hoeth, which I believe is out-dated). It would help not only those members that are new, BUT also the experienced members among us learn more about our own army and the armies of our opponents.

What do you all think?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:22 am 
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Why not post your list....i promise, i wont tell anyone ;)

Anyways since the new book is out there are two trends visible. Larger units and/or more elite units (read pumped up savage orcs).

Expect to see 40 strong savage orcs big uns with addational choppa and shaman with the shrunken head (5+ ward save for full unit)
You can expect to see the 100 strong NG spear horde....for a grinding match.
Expect Savage Orc shamans to out perform your characters in combat.
Expect a few manglers.
Expect 6 strong troll units or the troll chariots (multiple units of 2 trolls placed behind each other)
Expect common goblins for BSB bunker (although i doubt very good players will use that)
Like said above dont expect too many chukkas, although there is a smart tactic for a single one. (sorry, i will remain cryptic here.)
JWG mentions the vortex....but that one is not considered O&G's most valuable spell by most players.
And talking about magic O&G have a hard time dealing with some of the buffs and hexes. So some smart players will at critical points choose to dispel your buffs and try to control your magic phase via the O&G movement phase.
Dont let pumpwagons any where near your knights.
Large squig herds somehow lost popularity since the new Army book came out (although they became cheaper) although they were the shining stars since 8th came out.


However, top O&G players tend to have lists far outside the avarage. Like that one guy who won the Australian GT a few years ago with an all common goblin army.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:05 pm 
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BorkBork wrote:
Large squig herds somehow lost popularity since the new Army book came out (although they became cheaper) although they were the shining stars since 8th came out.

I suspect that this is because the unit costs a small fortune to put together. $166.25 retail for a unit with 10 herders and 30 squigs. And that's all for 270 points.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:05 am 
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grantmepower wrote:
BorkBork wrote:
Large squig herds somehow lost popularity since the new Army book came out (although they became cheaper) although they were the shining stars since 8th came out.

I suspect that this is because the unit costs a small fortune to put together. $166.25 retail for a unit with 10 herders and 30 squigs. And that's all for 270 points.


yeah they are costly, but also people of who i know they have the models field them less regulary.
My guess is that savage orcs are now plastic and they alsobecame relatively cheaper points wise, and also trolls became special.

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