Comments on Prince on Eagle

[Adinarak]

Hey! I wanted to get some opinions on the following build for a Prince on an Eagle. He would be tasked with character hunting and war machine wrecking, as well as flanking and slowing down cavalry charges by both blasting the cavalry and denying the march.

Prince (324 pnts)
*Great Eagle
*Great Weapon
*Dragon Armor
*Shield
*Helm of Fortune
*Talisman of Saphery
*Ring of Fury

While flying that's a 2+ rerollable. In combat its a 3+ but whatever he is fighting will be doing so with mundane weapons thanks to the Talisman which is why I'm not too upset about the lack of a Ward save. The Ring of Fury ensures that my 324 pnts are not just flying about idly if I can't get him into combat right away - he can put some fiery explosion on blocks, particularly cavalry using the flaming attack to cause fear, making him more versatile than a simple flying torpedo. Specially if the enemy character is not relying on a magical weapon like most. Then I'll just blast him long range.

[The Silly Dragon]

How is he getting a re-roll armour save?

In general its a bad idea to give a ranged ability to a unit that really wants to be in combat. The Talisman of Saphery is nice but i would want a ward save instead as its much better all round to have a reliable ward save.

[Csjarrat]

Armour of caledor, great weapon and vambraces is a good build. Re-rollable 2+, 4++ and gw attacks, works nicely.

[Adinarak]

How is he getting a re-roll armour save?

In general its a bad idea to give a ranged ability to a unit that really wants to be in combat. The Talisman of Saphery is nice but i would want a ward save instead as its much better all round to have a reliable ward save.

The Helm of Fortune that I had forgotten to write down. Thanks for that catch!

So if not the ranged ability how would you spend the 40 points? I thought it gave him versatility but I'd like to hear some other options. I'm not married to the build by any means. The thoughts about the Talisman was that if I'm in close combat, they shouldn't have attacks that warrant my need for a Ward save since their weapons are mundane and I have that +3 rerollable. Not that that's any guarantee but there are plenty of magical weapons that have some insane abilities that I'd rather neutralize, even at the cost of a Ward save.

[dabber]

The thoughts about the Talisman was that if I'm in close combat, they shouldn't have attacks that warrant my need for a Ward save since their weapons are mundane and I have that 3+ rerollable.

I think that is a poor assumption. What specific character wields a dangerous magical weapon that you need to negate? I would say most are happy with a mundane great weapon, or a minor magical weapon for killing ethereals. And lots of characters have base strength 5, which will hurt you plenty.
Most importantly, what you will usually fight will not be a character, and regular troops will be hitting you with strength 5 or 6.

[Adinarak]

Armour of caledor, great weapon and vambraces is a good build. Re-rollable 2+, 4++ and gw attacks, works nicely.

What about the random Obsidian Sword? Now you are left with a 4+ rerollable. Same for Killing Blow, which ignores armor saves. My Prince would still have his 2+ rerollables since they would be regular weapons. I don't know - you are probably right but it seems that the AoC, GW and Vambraces was such a common build I thought I'd come up with something different and maybe a bit more versatile.

[Orien]

I regularly run a Prince on an Eagle, I give him the following build for 302 pts

Prince
Eagle
Vambraces of Defence
Armour of Caledor
Talisman of Loec
Great Weapon.

He eats Chaos knights and Dwarf Warmachines for breakfast. He also took down a 2W Chaos lord once with the Talisman. All round arse kicker

[Adinarak]

The thoughts about the Talisman was that if I'm in close combat, they shouldn't have attacks that warrant my need for a Ward save since their weapons are mundane and I have that 3+ rerollable.

I think that is a poor assumption. What specific character wields a dangerous magical weapon that you need to negate? I would say most are happy with a mundane great weapon, or a minor magical weapon for killing ethereals. And lots of characters have base strength 5, which will hurt you plenty.
Most importantly, what you will usually fight will not be a character, and regular troops will be hitting you with strength 5 or 6.

Well I come from Warriors of Chaos, where we love to challenge. An Axe of Khorne made short work of most characters I came across since it has killing blow and +1 Str. I have not come across too many characters with great weapons since they swing last.

And this build is not for charging blocks, not unless its a last option. I am much better off using the Ring of Fury to attacks troops - multiple Str 4 attacks and all, from the other side of the board here its safe. That's why I thought the Ring made it versatile. However, if I do see a character or war machine, that is when he swoops in, quite literally. Or he can charge the back of or flank of units in unison with Lions or Swordelves as they attack the front, to draw out their Chaos Lord in a Challenge.

Or my logic might be entirely flawed. In my head it seems to make sense anyways.

[Adinarak]

I regularly run a Prince on an Eagle, I give him the following build for 302 pts

Prince
Eagle
Vambraces of Defence
Armour of Caledor
Talisman of Loec
Great Weapon.

He eats Chaos knights and Dwarf Warmachines for breakfast. He also took down a 2W Chaos lord once with the Talisman. All round arse kicker

Ah. Well, there you have it. I guess I need to stick to VoD and AoC then
As an option to the Talisman of Loec, do you think the Other Trickster's Shard might be a good option? In case you run into things with 5+ or 4+ Ward saves that can bog down the combat. It raises the cost to 307 but fits.

[dabber]

An Axe of Khorne made short work of most characters I came across since it has killing blow and +1 Str.

Okay, you negate the Sword. Chaos Lord still has 5 strength 5 attacks that hit on 3s. So 3.33 hits, 2.78 wounds, you have a re-rollable 5+, for 1.23 net wounds on you a round. Since that chaos lord has a 3+ ward on his side, you do about 0.67 wounds a round, assuming he has no net armour save. In other words, negating his weapon has not allowed you to kill him, nor to survive.

[Adinarak]

An Axe of Khorne made short work of most characters I came across since it has killing blow and +1 Str.

Okay, you negate the Sword. Chaos Lord still has 5 strength 5 attacks that hit on 3s. So 3.33 hits, 2.78 wounds, you have a re-rollable 5+, for 1.23 net wounds on you a round. Since that chaos lord has a 3+ ward on his side, you do about 0.67 wounds a round, assuming he has no net armour save. In other words, negating his weapon has not allowed you to kill him, nor to survive.

Whoa..you are strong with the mathammer. Could you do the same with AoC, VoD and the Other Trickster's Shard build on the Prince? Not that I doubt what you are saying - I just want to see how the numbers stack up.

[Malossar]

An Axe of Khorne made short work of most characters I came across since it has killing blow and +1 Str.

Okay, you negate the Sword. Chaos Lord still has 5 strength 5 attacks that hit on 3s. So 3.33 hits, 2.78 wounds, you have a re-rollable 5+, for 1.23 net wounds on you a round. Since that chaos lord has a 3+ ward on his side, you do about 0.67 wounds a round, assuming he has no net armour save. In other words, negating his weapon has not allowed you to kill him, nor to survive.

Whoa..you are strong with the mathammer. Could you do the same with AoC, VoD and the Other Trickster's Shard build on the Prince? Not that I doubt what you are saying - I just want to see how the numbers stack up.

This is a much stronger build. You average quite a few more wounds and become extremely durable.

[Eirik]

I don't see any form of ward save. What happens if your opponent has a cannon? That's about 300 points and a general down the drain.

[Csjarrat]

Vod is vambraces of defence. They give 4++ and re-rolls to armour saves, which is a 2+ in this case. Its about the most survivable you can get outisde of a barded steed set up

[The Silly Dragon]

Just remember that while mounted on the Eagle the troop type changes to 'Monstrous Cavalry' which means that Killing Blow will not affect him unless its Heroic Killing Blow.

[tdc]

Just remember that while mounted on the Eagle the troop type changes to 'Monstrous Cavalry' which means that Killing Blow will not affect him unless its Heroic Killing Blow.

Sadly it doesn't, that's been FAQ'd. If the character could be killing blowed without the mount, he still can.

[The Silly Dragon]

Oh ok doesn't seem right but if thats what the FAQ says then i guess i have to obey.