Those Fantastic Brilliant Spearmen....

[Calaedor]

I know the humble old spearmen sometimes get a bad rap. I've just totally fallen in love with them recently though and I Had to let someone know. Been lurking about here for what seems like ever and a day. Everyone here seems awesome. SO I thought I'd Put it to you guys!
I had a unit of 35 spears, In a game against a Mannfred VC list (I did have Teclis). These 35 Spearmen fought off 35 Skeletons and won. This itself isn't so grand except where they were charged in their flank by 5 blood knights....who did next to nothing. Combined with incredibly poor rolls and the spearmen doing an incredible 15 kills to the skeleton unit....the blood knights and all the remaining skeletons were killed with combat resolution! They were subsequently charged by a Deathstar unit of Grave Guard with Mannfred and Konrad... They lost 10 elves. But rolled Insane courage!

Now all of this has been my incredible experience with my spear elves, I'm just wondering how most people would run their spearmen. I use 35 in a 5 across by 7 deep formation, trying to keep them with steadfast as much as possible. I have tried a couple times the deadly 50man horde spears with Okkams to a devastating effect. I love our core. For something that is fairly weak and not very tough, they seem to do the trick just fine! but again...just curious as to how you veterans run your guys!

[hewhorocks]

My issue with spear-elves is that they are so darn ugly. Its like GW forgot to include the belt-midsection bits on the sprue. Scale wise they all seem like overweight, short guys trying to get on a carnival ride by wearing big hats.

"See I am this tall, I can ride on the roller coaster."..."take the goofy hat off kid, you must be 4' 10" to ride"

[John Rainbow]

I agree the models aren't great. They look like deformed gnomes but, I like the unit in games. I usually run 35 and include my BSB in the unit (for 36) as the spears normally hold the center of my line. I tend to deploy 6x6 and it works out pretty well. Use the shields to cover the models up and all is good!

[dabber]

Let us consider what averages say is a more likely outcome of those battles. Anything looks great if it rolls hot.

20 spearelf attacks, with re-rolls to hit, is 17.78 hits and 8.89 wounds. Skeletons save on 5+ and 6++, for 4.94 dead. You did more than TRIPLE the expected value of damage. The skeletons swinging should do 5 hits, 2.5 wounds and kill 1.67 spearelves. So the expected outcome is you win by about 3.
Now add Blood Knights in the flank. That should be 15 attacks, 10 hits, 8.3 kills by the riders. 5 attacks, 2.5 hits, 1.1 kills by the horses. You should expect to lose the combat by about 6 (1.67+8.3+1.1-4.94), and not have Steadfast.


Now if spearelves consistently roll hot for you, go for it. I firmly believe some units like some players better. Spearelves kill nothing for me, which is why I don't field them.

[Eldria]

I like spears but mostly as a buff target for me and because the people i play with seem to really like templating them and while they are doing that they leave my elites alone.

Which is nice.

[SpellArcher]

I tried to be clever and see if I could get away with a 20-strong unit.

people i play with seem to really like templating them

Now I'm going to see if I can get away with a 25-strong unit.

[Calaedor]

Yeah I know what the averages say. Mathhammer has never worked for me though. When the odds are good I generally die, when they're bad, sometimes my guys are great.
I do totally agree with you on the whole ugly model business. Our new models all look fantastic, but our spears...I dunno. They also seems to have extraordinarily large hands too.

In like a normal 2500 point game, what do you guys use to fill out your core? I use to use a massive block of spears, but have started to use the 35 plus a unit of archers to sorta give me some protection from smaller light units. Anyone take just archers or just lothern seaguard?

[b4z]

tbh... i think all of our core are pretty s....

if i could, i would not take spearmen...

but they are better than archers and lsg... so there is no choice.

[Eldria]

I run about 1/2 and 1/2 archers to spears. I did try running no archers but i got evaded to death (it doesn't help I frequently play dark elves and wood elves!)

I'm going to experiment with a 30 man archer horde and 25 man spear block at 2400 and see if i like the archer horde.

The archer horde is mostly tempting as i'm trialling shadow book archmage at the moment

[Calaedor]

I run about 1/2 and 1/2 archers to spears. I did try running no archers but i got evaded to death (it doesn't help I frequently play dark elves and wood elves!)

I'm going to experiment with a 30 man archer horde and 25 man spear block at 2400 and see if i like the archer horde.

Dude i'd love to hear how this goes. I've never considered running archers in anything over about 14 models. If it works for you it's definitely something I'm going to try!

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Hello!

In terms of models I use 5ed LSG as my Spearelves. I haven't replaced bows with swords yet but it is easily done and models look great. If you do not have LSG in your army list then fielding new models from IoB is a good way to go (and I don't think anybody would have something against it).

As to the game itself I really like that unit. It is the only one which provides ranks in my army and I really like the look of it on the battlefield. I have also found out that somehow people fear them and try to shoot at them and magic them before they entar the combat. As with any other unit in HE army I believe they should never go to the fight alone. We have means to create local superiority and this is our way. I no longer care if there are better core units in other armies. I know they have a firm place in my army and they are very useful. They obviously benefit from steadfast rule a lot but I still try not to use them as typical anvil and I prefer to charge than be charged even if I lose some attacks in the process.

What is more you can nicely increase their uses with magic. Whatever lore you choose there is always something to use to help them. The most obvious is Mindrazor and it can be devastating. Ward save, regeneration, increased toughness, all this makes a good unit even better. Yes, I do think Spearelves is a good unit. Use them in combination with other regiment and do not throw them away alone and they will help you win battle for sure

[Calaedor]

I do love the Lothern Seaguard and I admit when 8th first came out, they were the first unit I ran, in no loess than 50 models everytime. I was addicted to Okkams. Nowadays I'm a little more towards having units of spear elves and units of archers, just for the diversity. I think the fact we can so easily use magic to adapt our army to almost any situation is great, and befitting of High Elves!
The new IoB models are so brilliantly done as well, I was incredibly happy with the new Lothern Seaguard. I just wish they'd redo our normal spears to have a similar awesome look!

[krysith]

I have been playing archer hordes exclusively as my core since January. I have to say that I love them. At 2500 pts I run two units, one of 32 and one of 20, and at 3000 (for Ard Boyz) I run two units of 32. I always deploy ten wide, for good shooting and horde attacks. I almost always keep them that way, except when I reform them to provide ranks to a combo charge (fairly rare). They have tons of shooting (obviously), deliver more attacks than a ranked up unit of spearmen, and generally will have 3 ranks left after the first round of combat (because 8 models need to die to bring a 32 model unit below 25, dropping its third rank). I have had them win combat against blocks of skaven clanrats and bloodletters, unsupported and unbuffed. When buffed, they are just scary, as killy as buffed spearmen.

That's not to say that they are undefeatable, or even close to my strongest unit. They certainly can't stand up to tough combat opponents like chaos warriors or knights. They often don't have steadfast, or don't break it. They are extremely vulnerable to flank charges (since they lose both the stand-and-fire and their horde of attacks), so they need flank protection. But since I've switched to archer hordes, I've actually felt like my core was contributing its points worth. That's saying a lot for HE core.

[Calaedor]

wow I've never considered them for that sort of use. Though thinking of it now, ⅔ times I lose my 5+ save on my Spears anyways so the fact archers have no armour is a moot point. That being said, wouldn't you want to spend 1 point more to get a 6+ save and trade the longbow for a normal bow and get a spear as well? Understandably you lose your 6” maximum range and you lose 3” for Long range/short range, but you’d gain an extra rank of attacks in combat. Considering that you hit on say 4’s generally with bows (with either the move and shoot modifier, or the long range modifier...) or 3’s at best, and you only get half of your ranks to fire with (so 26 from a horde formation with 2 ranks shooting plus another 12 ranks volley fire. And there’s no re-roll on it. If you were in combat though you usually get all of your attacks from spears, that are hitting on 3’s or 4’s mostly with re-rolls. Both bows and spears are St 3. Buffing you unit of Lothern Seaguard with say Flaming Sword of Rhuin makes them a mean target to charge as well....loosing 20 shots that will wound on 3’s or 4’s then getting attacked by 32 spears which again are wounding on 3’s or 4’s.

In any case. I still think an archer horde would be awesome. Would totally catch my opponent off guard!

....gah clever people on this forum! it’s great!

[bloody nunchucks]

i personally dont think that archers are as good as they used to be, this is because everybody id now taking hordes so out pathetic S3 bows have little to no effect. in 3k i run a unit of 40ish spear elves as they are durable and can hold up a unit for a turn or two and let my SM's flank.

i have mixed feelings over SG, i guess it depends on your list

[dabber]

That being said, wouldn't you want to spend 1 point more to get a 6+ save and trade the longbow for a normal bow and get a spear as well? Understandably you lose your 6” maximum range and you lose 3” for Long range/short range, but you’d gain an extra rank of attacks in combat.

That extra 6" of range is the difference between shooting what the enemy wants shot on turn 1, and shooting what you want to shoot. When the bowfire can do anything of consequence, I find the extra range is very significant.
Using horde formation 10x3 means the extra spear attacks are irrelevant. Every archer is attacking, except for frontage limitations.

Buffing you unit of Lothern Seaguard with say Flaming Sword of Rhuin makes them a mean target to charge as well....loosing 20 shots that will wound on 3’s or 4’s then getting attacked by 32 spears which again are wounding on 3’s or 4’s.

If you are spending your power dice to cast Flaming Sword on sea guard, your opponent is often celebrating. At least that was my reaction the one time I played against Lore of Fire. But again, the archer horde does just as well in that situation, and shoots better in your own shooting phase.

[grantmepower]

Do people have something against just running 2 bog-standard units of 30 spears? Works fine.

[hewhorocks]

Do people have something against just running 2 bog-standard units of 30 spears? Works fine.

Not me. I love them silly. Still I can see a horde of 30 archers as having merits.

[Griffon Prince]

The past few lists I've made include a block of 31 spears and another with 32 and Banner of Flame. I feel that we need something to deal with big enemy units and since our elites are pricy and die en masse to things likes hordes, we need spearelves.

[Jimmy]

I always love the spearelves, firstly from the fluff side ofthings just having the tide of silver armour across the battlefield with rank upon rank of disciplined troops. Secondly they are the cheapest troop we have and a large unit of 30 have become the backbone of my current 2k list. A few nights ago (battle report coming!) the unit withheld a charge from two Bret lances with a bsb and choppy character until the end of the game. Admittedly they were supported by life magic here and there however they really provide a solid foundation to filling out hour core choices. When combined with either swordmasters, white lions or a chariot they really can open up a can on the enemy!

[Lord Anathir]

I have to try 2x30 archers for core, it seems by far the best setup. I like spears, but its not worth taking them in units large enough to actually make use of 4 ranks. Also I don't like them just sitting around when archers can pump out shots and fight nearly just as well.

[Alathenar]

At 2500 I run 1 block of 40 Spears(8x5) but after I finish painting up more of them I'm gonna start trying out 2 blocks of 40. When your versing opponents like Skaven and OnG the numbers spears provide are very handy. They make great support units aswell for our elites, plus i'm a Skaven player aswell so I like using big units

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

A few nights ago (battle report coming!) the unit withheld a charge from two Bret lances with a bsb and choppy character until the end of the game. Admittedly they were supported by life magic here and there however they really provide a solid foundation to filling out hour core choices.

Now that is a proper trailer for upcoming battle report

[KJSparkz]

Metal's Glittering Robe spell is a delight on Spearmen and archers giving you +2 to your armour save from scaly skin.Even better at higher level when it effects all units within 12 inches.

Now our T3 5+as troops can survive so much better. Buffewd with a Life Mage Throne of Vine Flest to stone combo makes them positively scary.LOL

Same goes for all our Elite with 3+ Armour saves 0+ for Dragon Princes and Silver Helms, WL 1+ v Shooting,even the Shadow Warriors are now 4+.

[CrockmasterJr]

At 2400pts I run my Core with 2 x 15 Archers with Musicians and 40 Spears with Full command and the +1 leadership banner. My "Unkillable" Life Archmage and Bsb (GW, 2+ Re-Rollable AS) go in this unit, and this forms the centre of my army. They work well with the life Archmage in there for Ld 10 Re-rollable, 8 ranks for Steadfast and regeneration (with the life signature spell).

For me the spears aren't there for their number of attacks or killing power, they're there to hold something up and at 9 pts they're pretty good for that when compare to our other units.

Agreed that the models are rubbish as well - I was gutted when they didn't do some new models in the last release.

[ShastaGecko]

I am all too aware of the outstanding use of our elite troops, and the fact that we are an elite army. However, I really love the idea of huge spearmen blocks. Of course, as with any army I'm sure, you can build it however you want- it's how you play it that decides whether or not victory will be yours.

[Botjer]

I agree, ive always loved the image of the spearmen, blocks of them marching up along side archers, flanked by silverhelms and smatterings of elite infantry.

[Calaedor]

I've also found recently from a modelling perspective, they look fantastic if they're all in the same pose. I saw a horde of my friends Orc spears and they're all rag tag and bleh and just savage, and when the new IoB LSG came out, and they were all almost identical...I thought it was great. I fit perfectly with the fluff, they look like they HAVE trained as a unit for hundreds of years, perfecting their technique and their unity. SO I went back to my other spearmen, cut many pieces off and re-glued them, so that they form an almost perfect unit, all with almost the same stance and holding their spears to almost the same height. It works fantastically and since I've started running blocks of 50 spears and 30 archers in a 3k game, it looks beautiful. Now i need to get them painted beautifully too, and I shall be happy.

All In all I think our core troops are fantastic. I'm still in love with spearmen...and when bolstered by Okkams they are one of the most devastating units I have played, simply by grace of hitting on 3's or 4's with re-rolls then killing (even a chosen or Black orc or Arachnarok) on 2's.....It's incredible! Give them the lion standard and Korhil in their front ranks. Absolutely love it. Devastating unit. I'm starting to never leave home without Lore of Shadow. Charge them and my mage into combat. Cast Okkams. Swap places with Korhil or a similar combat beast and you're right as rain.

[HERO]

Metal's Glittering Robe spell is a delight on Spearmen and archers giving you +2 to your armour save from scaly skin.Even better at higher level when it effects all units within 12 inches.

Now our T3 5+as troops can survive so much better. Buffewd with a Life Mage Throne of Vine Flest to stone combo makes them positively scary.LOL

Same goes for all our Elite with 3+ Armour saves 0+ for Dragon Princes and Silver Helms, WL 1+ v Shooting,even the Shadow Warriors are now 4+.

5+ scaly skin
+1 Light Armor
+1 Shield
= ?

You wish Spears had heavy armor.

[Calaedor]

+2 to your armour

+2 to armour not 2+ armour. Totally right in saying that as they go from 5+ to 3+ w/scaly skin. Which is +2.