Ellyrian Reavers

[tethlis the slayer]

Are they realy that much more fragile?

Maybe not purely by running the wounds/toughness comparison - but the eagles are two seperate targets, so a single hellblaster/missile unit/magic missile etc can take out the whole reaver unit in one shot, but only one of the eagles.

I think comparing them based on purely killyness may be the wrong way to go about it also.

True. I suspect I rate the killiness a fair bit is because (seeing as I use an army with a dragon) my reavers and eagles primary function is to shut down the most dangerous war machines, so the ability to finish that job ASAP so I can use them for all the sneaky diversion and support roles is very important. In my experience Eagles take more time to finish off war machines, so while my reavers (if they survive to get into contact with war machines in the first place) are available right away for other jobs, my eagles are bogged down - yes, they are stopping the war machine they are in contact with from firing, but they aren't achieving anything else.

[hewhorocks]

The issue between eagles and Reavers though is opportunity cost. Generally speaking, points spent on Eagles dont come at the expense of Special unit choices. Reavers do.

Assuming min core, Most of us usually max out specials and split the difference between heroes/lords and maybe a couple eagles or Bolt throwers. Spending on Reavers means you aren't spending those points on SM or WL or other Cav for that matter. If Reavers were Non-counting Core, or even rare choices I'd be more inclined to use them regularly (I love the IOB models). As specials, even if they were "better than eagles" at their assigned role, the difference isnt as much as the difference between spending the points on eagles and allowing me to have more SM.

[Modessa]

Noble - Barded Elven Steed
Reaver Bow
Merlord Helm (just because its a 10pt +1AS)
BSB, Great Weapon, Dragon Armor

This is a fascinating topic. I love the reavers too and hope to find a way to use them - I do have a 3000 point list somewhere on my computer but it's not very serious, alas.

A quick point on the Merlord Mask: I think that unfortunately it's only for food models, so it won't go with the barded elven steed. It's another item I really like but can never fit into my list because for foot heros there's always another, more serious, piece of magic armour to take.

[RogueSun]

Noble - Barded Elven Steed
Reaver Bow
Merlord Helm (just because its a 10pt +1AS)
BSB, Great Weapon, Dragon Armor

A quick point on the Merlord Mask: I think that unfortunately it's only for food models, so it won't go with the barded elven steed. It's another item I really like but can never fit into my list because for foot heros there's always another, more serious, piece of magic armour to take.

It is for foot models only. Though he may have also been referring to the Dragon Helm...? It's also a 10 point +1 armor save piece of gear you can take. Plus it'll save you 2 points by not having to take Dragon Armor.

[Meridian]

You are right. I did just mistype, because I was editing a list that had an onfoot reaver bow noble, and switched him to mounted forgetting to change the helm (the helm was on another character in that list)

I'm not sure how viable it is either to expect most of your kills from the shooting phase of combat, especially with 2 shooty characters, but we'll see.

[jwg20]

I personally like helm of fortune. Its 15 more points for the same increase in armor, but also gives a re-roll. That is, unless you already gave your general vambraces... In which case the re-roll is a moot point and dragon helm is best.

And yes, I am not sure the balance between eagles or ER. I will probably throw some reavers in before my next battle to see how they work compared to the eagles.

[bloody nunchucks]

so for the upcoming semi finals for ardboys i will be dropping my two eagles from my list (due to the first scenario)

i am thinking about using reavers instead. they can deploy 12in up from the table edge, move 12in with vanguard and then if i go first they charge 17in on average, that means i can get 5in inside of my opponents zone by turn one. of he has any WM's to close i can take them out.

the obvious problems is that any shooting at all and they will become dust, and i hate giving up free VP points.

any thoughts on how reavers fill the WM hunting role, do they do it well? or do they always die?

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

Are you allowed to charge on the first turn? If you deploy 12", vanguard move 12" march 18", that's a long way across the board, and you can still shoot with just a -1. If you march the rest of your army forwards, he has to choose who to hit, the infantry or the reavers, if he targets the reavers you have another turn to charge in with the infantry, it's all about giving them too many choices.

[jwg20]

Are you allowed to charge on the first turn?

You are allowed to charge first turn if you do not go first. The first player to move in first turn cannot charge with a unit that performs a vanguard move.

I agree about the threat of moving the reavers that far forward. While they are weak, they are a huge threat to war machine crews, and as a result, they cannot be ignored. This could be great if you could move them out of view of a unit of handgunners or crossbowmen. They would have to move to shoot at the reavers, but if they move, they cannot shoot. This would mean your opponent would have to target his war machine crews at the reavers, which would take that pressure off of your infantry (or he would have to charge them with his own cavalry, which could be effective to draw his cavalry out of position, leaving them open for you to destroy them). While it is unlikely to win you the game, it gives your opponent a series of poor decisions, which is important early in the game. The more tough decisions he is troubled by, the more likely he is to make an early mistake. Mistakes early in the game are potentially the most costly, if you know how to take advantage of it. They are also the easiest to rectify if you fail to capitalize on it quickly enough though, but the speed of the reavers and your other cavalry units are really helpful here.

Off topic, and back to a previous idea mentioned above: the eagle prince is a ton of fun! It is great to have a general that can surpass any interrupting units or terrain and move across the board at a whim. I used it in my last battle, and the eagle prince was a complete blast to use despite being so fragile. You trade off some armor protection and a look out sir save in favor of some great tactical flexibility. I have a feeling he would be nothing but a flying bullseye for a gunline, but against chaos he worked pretty well and was a lot of fun to use (killed the chaos general, then returned to the center of the formation to provide his inspiring presence the next turn to my main battle line, THEN helped turn the tide of a combat phase on the other side of the table the turn after that!). He really mimics the flexibility and speed of reavers, and I think would fit in an ellyrian-themed army really well. While slightly off-topic, I think a speedy prince or noble fits pretty well in a discussion of an army focused on speed.

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

They would have to move to shoot at the reavers, but if they move, they cannot shoot.

This is why I'm going to try the lore of Light on Friday in my battle with a mates Dwarves, making him have to take strength tests to move and shoot could be invaluable to my Reavers survival. As to the Eagle Prince he wouldn't fit an Ellyrian themed army fluff wise well but his mobility would fit right in. I read your battle report and your your general kicked but.

[Prince of Spires]

The issue between eagles and Reavers though is opportunity cost. Generally speaking, points spent on Eagles dont come at the expense of Special unit choices. Reavers do.

Assuming min core, Most of us usually max out specials and split the difference between heroes/lords and maybe a couple eagles or Bolt throwers. Spending on Reavers means you aren't spending those points on SM or WL or other Cav for that matter. If Reavers were Non-counting Core, or even rare choices I'd be more inclined to use them regularly (I love the IOB models). As specials, even if they were "better than eagles" at their assigned role, the difference isnt as much as the difference between spending the points on eagles and allowing me to have more SM.

While strictly speaking this is true, I don't hink in practice this is actually an issue. You have to take 25% core. I would be very surprised if you keep your characters under 25%, unless you run character light in big games. Even an archmage and a BSB will easily go over 500pts (both fully kitted come to 520 pts I think).

Adding these two together gives 50% of your points total that is spent before you get to special and rare choices. Because you can spend 50% on special choices, both the reavers and the eagles come out of the same points as SM. So there is no difference between them as far as what slot they come from, unless you go up to 3000 pts or higher. And at that level you could simply take both instead of 3 or more eagles.

Rod

[Koradrel of Chrace]

Hi all! I'm making my first plunge back into the hobby after an absence of a couple years, and this particular topic really grabbed my interest. I have an army list that I've been playing around with that will probably raise a few eyebrows, as it uses a lot of choices that I understand from my reading over the last couple days that most don't agree with. Here's the list:

Prince on Star Dragon w/ Halberd, Armour of Caledor, Vambraces of Defense, and Amulet of Light - 621pts.

Level 2 Mage (High Magic) w/ Annulian Crystal - 175pts.

24 Spearmen w/ Full Command - 241pts.

14 Archers - 154pts.

25 Sea Guard w/ Full Command, Shields, and Banner of Eternal Flame - 360pts.

18 Swordmasters w/ Full Command and Banner of Swiftness - 315pts.

6 Silver Helms w/ Full Command - 166pts.

5 Ellyrian Reavers w/ Harbinger, Musician, Spear, and Bows - 119pts.

5 Dragon Princes w/ Full Command, Potion of Strength, and Banner of Arcane Protection - 245pts.

1 Repeater Bolt Thrower - 100pts.

Total Points: 2496

I've been having some great success with this list. My usual oppents include Skaven, Vampire Counts, Orcs & Goblins, and Dark Elves (yep, I'm the only Good aligned player in our club). I tend to use my cavalry, especially my Reavers, to put early pressure on my opponents, coupled with the threat of my dragon lurking around. Thanks to the magic of combined charges, steadfast rarely is a problem for me. My unsung heroes of any game are usually my Silver Helms or my Reavers, as the rest of my army tends to gather the most attension.

[~Milliardo~]

Actually Koradrel, I think that's a pretty solid list!

[akielzather]

Have been thinking about Reaver Knights and how best to use them. The newish IOB models are very nice and it seems a shame to let them sit on the shelfs and gather dust.

So what set up do people think could work best.

The traditional throw away 5 with Bows - 95pts
The alt throw away 5 with spears - 85pts
The Multi Purpose - 5 with everything 105pts

Weakness of the above is shadows can do the same job for the same cost. Ok so you lose the hourse attack,and 5+ save goes down.

So alternative set up.

10 RK with spears - 170pts
10 RK with Bows - 190pts
10 RK with both - 210pts

Not a huge investment in larger games and flankers and missile troup hunters.

Pro's - of larger unit -
Now a threat to support troups so have to be dealt with, thus protecting your elites from being shot at.
Highly Mobile threat to most light armoured troups.
15 atts with 10 of these str 4 on the charge.
Mobile battery (if you include bows) to take out weapon teams, missle support. That allows archers to focus on evening the odds on what you want to take on with your elites.

Cons -
Hitting power still not great and points investment that takes away from other elites.
Other elites overall pound for pound better in a straight up fight.
4 eagles could do the same for the same points cost.
Easy to destroy with missile fire.



Not a post to rip these apart, just looking to put something together for those new to the hobby who have 5-10 of these sitting arround not sure on how to use them.

Edit - had started a new post but noticed this one so added to here