On Lizards...

[Not an Elf]

Ok, so I don't play High Elves, or collect them for that matter, but I have a great respect for them. However, having just finished my painting my fixed list 2,500 point Lizardman Army ready for a campaign, I thought I'd post it up here with some tactical insight and also some observations I have made of Lizardmen usage that you should be aware of. After all, know your enemy and all that. So...

Lord Aescul'Pax- Slann Mage Priest
Loremaster of Life, +1 Power Dice per spell, Becalming Cognition, Dispel Scroll

14 Temple Guard with full command

Mon'Hekaii- Saurus Scar Veteran and Battle Standard Bearer
Sword of Strife, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon

23 Saurus Spearmen with full command

18 Saurus Warriors with full command

16 Skink Cohorts with 2 Kroxigor and Standard

3x10 Skink Skirmishers

2x Salamanders with additional handlers

8 Chameleon Skinks

4 Terradons

Axolotyl- level 2 Skink Priest with Engine of the Gods and Ancient Stegadon.

It's a slight deviation of the standard 2,500 point Lizard set-ups you see. The Saurus BSb is an oddity in this type of army, but he's geared for combat, the conversion is great, as is the paint job, and the small Temple Guard means that the Slann as General and BSb would be a definite case of eggs and baskets.

The Slann is a typical magic heavy build, and Life is more or less a given with Lizards. It also compensates for the slightly smaller Saurus blocks I use. Back in 7th I used blocks of 30- no one would touch them, which meant the rest of my Army got nuked out fast. Now I have a flexible and sturdy battle line that sees combat.

Salamanders are a standard Lizard choice- you'll almost always see a couple running solo trying to flank you. Chameleons appear in every list too, normally in small groups of 5. And Skink Skirmishers are a given too.

Very important for those of you who rightly fear the hail of poison from Skink Skirmishers. The Lizardman player will always aim for the maximum amount of dice for the extra 6's, but if they have moved the unit and are firing twice, they are rolling sixes. Check their range- if they are more than 6 inches away, they'll be on a 7+ to hit and therefore no poison. On more than one occasion I've had to tell a Lizardman player to put back half the dice he had eagerly grasped. Also, however scary they may be, Skinks die real real fast against High Elves. A turn dedicated to disposing of some of the troublesome little buggers will ease your mind whilst unsettling your opponents.

And obviously the mega draw-back to Lizards is the initiative. Purple Sun heralds vast quantities of dead Saurus and tears from Lizardmen players.

Stegadons... where to start. All that needs to be said is that if your opponent brings more than one, he's a bit cheesy and you can claim a moral victory for not being a cheesemonger regardless of outcome.

[Tethlis]

Sounds like good feedback.

I think that your regiments are indeed pretty small, which is probably the main drawback of the list. Obviously Lore of Life will go a long way towards mitigating that drawback, but quite a few armies can go through that many Saurus in a turn or two without worrying much about the return attacks.

I'm not quite sure I agree about Stegadons though. I find them quite a bit easier to deal with in 8th edition than I did in 7th edition; many of the popular Magic Lores have a good solution to Stegadons, and I would much rather take on a Steg than its point equivalent of Saurus. They're hurt pretty badly by Steadfast as well, so they're not going to be breaking many enemy units unless you're also getting a big ranked unit of Saurus into combat as well. Cannonballs and Stonethrowers automatically hitting every part of the model is rough too. They're still a good strong choice, but suffer quite a few 8th edition drawbacks.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Thanks for valuable isnight NaE! I have never had a chance to play against Lizards, so it is even more interesting to me. Would you give us some additional comments on what is the main problem this army has in general, against HE and against your archenemy Mr.S in particular.

I would love to see some pictures of your painted army too, as it is always inspiring to see a finished host of miniatures.

[Not an Elf]

I didn't mean that Steg's are super scary or anything- everything can and will die in 8th. I simply meant it as a feasibility issue- are there really that many tamed triceratops available in Lustria? GW do it to sell more big models, but I can't imagine Slann casually throwing tooled up Trikes into every battle.

The size of the Saurus blocksb I consider an advantage to be honest- more Saurus attacks over a wider area. The most valuable piece of advice I ever recived on Saurus blocks was that you don't waste the points on non fighting Saurus. The cold-blooded rule means you generally pass Ld tests with ease, combined with the Bsb and General.

Issues with this army... I never get the first turn, due to having a large amount of drops. Which means no initial buff from the Steg. And against Mr. S in particular, its the Cavalry arm that scares me. That lead to my downfall in our most recent game, although it was the most entertaining and mentally draining battle I have ever fought (5 hours of focus). Each game between Mr. S and my Lizards gets a little bit closer, so if I can come up with a solution to his Cavalry, I'd be getting there.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Indeed, it is easy to come up with a conclusion that Mr. S has an easy job to do against your Lizards, seeing how his plan came to fruition. However, I am sure these games are not easy. I am looking forward to read a report from the game when the outcome will be undecided until the last dice roll That is even more interesting!

[Seredain]

I didn't mean that Steg's are super scary or anything- everything can and will die in 8th. I simply meant it as a feasibility issue- are there really that many tamed triceratops available in Lustria? GW do it to sell more big models, but I can't imagine Slann casually throwing tooled up Trikes into every battle.

Hahaha, too right.

The size of the Saurus blocksb I consider an advantage to be honest- more Saurus attacks over a wider area. The most valuable piece of advice I ever recived on Saurus blocks was that you don't waste the points on non fighting Saurus. The cold-blooded rule means you generally pass Ld tests with ease, combined with the Bsb and General.

Although, in our last HE v Lizards battle my silver helm tank did total your HW saurus in one round and happily march on through your left flank... Units of 18 can't take alot of casualties and expect to hang around - even with cold-blooded leadership tests.

Issues with this army... I never get the first turn, due to having a large amount of drops. Which means no initial buff from the Steg. And against Mr. S in particular, its the Cavalry arm that scares me.

I think it's partly because of the above, really - my 2-rank cavalry unit can roll over your relatively small infantry units in pretty short order. Also, High Elf knights are basically immune to your usual solution to difficult opponents, which is to dart them to death with skinks. Your list still has plenty of tools against knights, though: you've got the Engine's Burning Alignment, Lightning from Lore of the Heavens, Salamanders (which burn through armour nicely - though obv not against dragon princes), and the big spear unit with Scar Vet BSB, which is able to take some hits and hold, so long as I don't get a combo charge against it. I suppose the biggest problem is getting enough of these units deployed in the right place, since my cavalry's pace doesn't give you a lot of time to get rid of them before my characters start chopping up lizards.

That lead to my downfall in our most recent game, although it was the most entertaining and mentally draining battle I have ever fought (5 hours of focus).

Yeah that was hardcore. I got a few white hairs every time you had a magic phase. I hate Slanns. And engines.

[Not an Elf]

Therein lies the inherent problem with all-comers lists. How do you allow for anything and everything. Heavy cavalry are the one scary thing in the game that I can't apply my "not fight it" tactic to. Greater daemons, meet skink skirmishers. Infantry horde, meet skink skirmishers. Doomwheel, meet skink skirmishers etc.

I guess my spears and steg are the counter to Cavalry. And magic. I like magic. Kinda a shame I can't take my super anti-cav Wood Elf Lord as an ally against you Mr. S- he taught your Dragon Princes a lesson, before getting had hard.

Hordes are right out for Saurus- too much investment with a frontage big enough to ram an army into.

[Tethlis]

Although, in our last HE v Lizards battle my silver helm tank did total your HW saurus in one round and happily march on through your left flank... Units of 18 can't take alot of casualties and expect to hang around - even with cold-blooded leadership tests.

Exactly.

Lots of units can get through 18 WS3, T4, 4+ save models in one round of combat. Plenty of cavalry units, especially the multiple attack, re-roll to hit variety, can get through that many models with a single charge while shrugging off the Strength 4 return attacks. I'm sure you know what suits your list and your playstyle, but I think it makes your list less forgiving since you don't have many casualties to absorb charges from elite units.

I think it's probably a positive thing that your skinks can't handle EVERY threat... It already says a lot about skinks that they can handle everything you just described, and they're an incredibly cheap Core choice. Having vulnerabilities in your list that you have to work through, or use tactics to counter, is what keeps this game tactically engaging rather than simply being a rock-paper-scissors matchup between different armies.