Ulthuan

As these are the two best spells IMO, I am stuck between them. One is the master of Augments, and the other is the master of Hexes. Both has a 6th spell that is the best of the others specialty, so they are truly opposites.

So, what does Ulthuan think?

Damn it, voted for life by accident instead of shadow

Shadow

Lathaon wrote:Damn it, voted for life by accident instead of shadow

Enabled re-voting.

Right now, I'm leaning towards shadow. I like that it is a bit more aggressive with damage. I will definitely be trying ALL lores though to find what fits me best.

Thanks. I say Shadow, because I like to open cans of whupass in the magic phase, and that's not really what Life's about. Plus I find it more appealing as a concept.

Having said that, I'd say that Life is theoretically better for HE because we often have fewer units than the opponent. When the opponent has lots of units, hexes won't hurt as much whereas buffs on our own troops could be more effective... Of course, this doesn't apply when we take MSU troops or a bunch of chariots...

Also, any kind of miscast protection is very nice.

Going for Life myself as I would rather have the ability to buff/res my units

I think support is the way to win this edition. Archers and chariots to support each unit of combat troops

wamphyri101 wrote:Going for Life myself as I would rather have the ability to buff/res my units

I think support is the way to win this edition. Archers and chariots to support each unit of combat troops

I agree, plus dwellers below is a great big spell.

Life is the best overall lore imho. T7 white lions.... what they have always dreamed of.

I haven't tried them in a game yet, but on paper I like Lore of Shadows more.

out of the two i prefer shadow.

however i have a sneaky feeling heavens is my favourite overall. comet (which isnt remains in play!!!) and chain lightning are both fantastic. i like the push spell for upsetting peoples plans, and the two re-roll spells are situational but useful plus a s6 magic missile. and on top of that extra damage to flyers (to help keep those throwers alive) yeah. heavens for me i think

I haven't playtested them yet. But I feel that of the two lores, Life would be better - it has damage, buffs and what is more important - ressurection/heal. Imagine the impact of resurection on our cavalry, chariots, dragons, etc..

I also think that High magic, death and metal will be strong choices. Too sad that you have to preset your lore choice and not be able to change it depending on your opponent..

Teclis can choose either or at the start of the battle

I haven't voted yet because I have only used lore of life, but I plan on using the lore of shadow. So far the lore of life has been extremely handy, t7 sword masters that pop up after dying has been brutal. Same with t7 PG.

How ever s8 spears sounds cruel. BTW have people decided that the ld for strength modifies armor saves?

edit: why can teclis choose?

tiekwando2 wrote:I haven't voted yet because I have only used lore of life, but I plan on using the lore of shadow. So far the lore of life has been extremely handy, t7 sword masters that pop up after dying has been brutal. Same with t7 PG.

How ever s8 spears sounds cruel. BTW have people decided that the ld for strength modifies armor saves?

edit: why can teclis choose?

Cause its still under his rules and they didn't errata it out.

HERO wrote:Teclis can choose either or at the start of the battle

Ahh, Teclis

I wonder if there will be a change of 'no special characters in tournament' and subsequently at the 'i frawn upon the usage of special characters' attitude. It is without debate that if special characters become a norm, Teclis will feature in most lists, just as is Eldrad featuring in most Eldar lists..

Marinero wrote:

HERO wrote:Teclis can choose either or at the start of the battle

Ahh, Teclis

I wonder if there will be a change of 'no special characters in tournament' and subsequently at the 'i frawn upon the usage of special characters' attitude. It is without debate that if special characters become a norm, Teclis will feature in most lists, just as is Eldrad featuring in most Eldar lists..

40K is SCs everywhere. The new books all have a lot of SC flavor.

I'm sure the SC frowning is a thing of the past.

HERO wrote:

tiekwando2 wrote:I haven't voted yet because I have only used lore of life, but I plan on using the lore of shadow. So far the lore of life has been extremely handy, t7 sword masters that pop up after dying has been brutal. Same with t7 PG.

How ever s8 spears sounds cruel. BTW have people decided that the ld for strength modifies armor saves?

edit: why can teclis choose?

Cause its still under his rules and they didn't errata it out.

Wow and teclis gets just a little bit better, but is it just me or are we going to be really, really dependent on him. In the games I have played we need magic to be able to do... well just about anything.

I've used both in game and Im very much a shadow person. Life is nice but seeing as world dragon is the best way to protect your own heros against magic I wont have many chances to cast throne of vines. Life has a few good spells but they're all a bit situational, and if throne is dispelled even the ressurection spell isnt so hot.

Shadow on the other hand has sort of a bunch of spells rolled into your signature spell. Anti shooting and cc, or avoidance or helps you break a unit. Also theres the I debuff which fits in nicely with the two I kill spells. Strength or Tough debuff are also nice. The strength debuff is very similar to increasing toughness from that lore of light spell accept the strength debuff means your armor is less damaged. The 6 spell is very nice for spears and anything with alot of attacks (it works on horses of cav units too...) It DOES affect armor.

I suggest book of hoeth for now.

Hey LA, are you sure that the 6th of Lore of Shadows affects armour? It is debatable in the way it is written now

GWshop doesn't think things through when writing rules (THANK YOU AGAIN MAT WARD) so they've left it awkwardly opened - on one hand, they could've intended for people to use the leadership exactly as strength, or they could've meant that to be used against high toughness stuff but without reducing armor since your strength value is what modifies armor, not leadership..

so its a grey area until FAQd because GWShop likes to FAQ things up.

Silver wrote:so its a grey area until FAQd because GWShop likes to FAQ things up.

Ahh well, knowing GW is to love GW, no?

Shadow is funky but suffers from afew spells that I don't like.
Life is awesome all the way, especially with Throne of Vines.
(Smoke & Mirrors compared to Lifebloom is a joke really.)

Personally I consider Shadow to be the worst (but by no means a bad) lore of the new BRB-lores, followed by Metall for it's obvious reasons then Death/Beasts.
Life, Light, Heavens and Fire is the way to go!

I think Life will suit us better out of the two. Then I like Heavens, then Death.

Marinero wrote:Hey LA, are you sure that the 6th of Lore of Shadows affects armour? It is debatable in the way it is written now

It's really too bad it is a gray area and can be argued reasonably from both sides as written. If it doesn't affect armour saves, then casting it on anything other than core units seems useless in most cases. Take casting it on Sword Masters, for example, attacking a T4 enemy. Normal attacks from Sword Masters wound on 3s with -2 to the armour save. Mindrazored Sword Masters wound them on 2s with no penalty to the armour save because now the wounds are S3 as the spell negates weapon bonuses. An augment spell that actually makes a unit worse? In my opinion, this wasn't the intention of a spell that costs 18+ to cast.

However, since it is a potential source of contention, I would probably bring it up before even starting the game.

Yep.. Pretty irritating, but as it is worded, there is no mention what so ever about armour saves, while it specifically says that the augmented strength is used when rolling to wound.

So I would say, roll to wound with you ltd value as strenght, then the AS modifiers of your weapon are applies for the AS.

I hope it gets FAQ-ed

Even if it modiefies the AS, it still will not be that awesome, as you need to be in combat to have its effect and even then it can be dispelled. Andwhile none of your units are in a serious combat, you are left 2-3 turns pondering if you drop the stats of enemy units that are not in CC with you, would that really make a difference and pay of for your expencive magic set up

It's 18+.

Some common sense here people.

I voted Life - a level 4 with the Seerstaff choosing Flesh to Stone, Throne of Vines and Regrowth is fantastic, with either Earth Blood or Dwellers Below as a nice bonus. With the Banner of Sorcery you'll get an average of 9 dice, sometimes more. Throw 4 or even 5 dice at Throne and you're very likely to get it off, and even if you roll a double 6, the spell effect takes place first, then the miscast effect, which means you can avoid it on a 2+.

You can also throw more dice at the other spells then, with the same 2+ chance of being unaffected by Loss of Control. It also makes it very useful when the Ring of Hotek's in play.

Oh, and I agree with HERO about the Ld / S debate. I think they simply meant that your Strength attribute becomes equal to your Leadership attribute, with all the concomitant modifiers.

Marinero wrote:So I would say, roll to wound with you ltd value as strenght, then the AS modifiers of your weapon are applies for the AS.

Except the spell specifically states that weapon modifiers do not apply. Which is why is should be played that the leadership value does affect the save as it does require 18+ and is the biggest spell in the lore.

Bolt Thrower wrote:Except the spell specifically states that weapon modifiers do not apply. Which is why is should be played that the leadership value does affect the save as it does require 18+ and is the biggest spell in the lore.

Hey, I would not mind if the ruling is that the Ltd value affects the AS, not at all. I am just pointing out, that as the spell is currently written, that is not the case. Common sense or not, the wording is clear

Marinero wrote:

Bolt Thrower wrote:Except the spell specifically states that weapon modifiers do not apply. Which is why is should be played that the leadership value does affect the save as it does require 18+ and is the biggest spell in the lore.

Hey, I would not mind if the ruling is that the Ltd value affects the AS, not at all. I am just pointing out, that as the spell is currently written, that is not the case. Common sense or not, the wording is clear

Hopefully an FAQ will be out on it, until then a decision within individual gaming communities will have to do. If it doesn't reduce the save then just don't cast it on White Lions, Sword Masters, Phoenix Guard or Dragon Princes and you'll be ok.