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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:12 am 
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As their main mage(no backup casters)?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:57 pm 
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I have a friend who ran a lvl 4 with beast lore for a while. I don't remember what equipment he used.

He had some success, but he said that what usually happened was he would cast Kadon's transformation, then the opponent would dispel it on their own turn, over and over. He kept the AM out of combat usually. He seemed to think that the mere threat of a fire dragon on the board within charging range was enough to threaten his opponent so that they would spend their spell dice on dispelling. So it was more of an anti-magic tactic for him than an offensive tactic. I think he mainly used wildform to buff his troops along with Kadon's.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Keep in mind the mage gets a fresh breath weapon every time it transforms, and your opponent wastes a lot of dice to dispel that each turn. This means that you get a neat attack off with the spell each time you cast it (assuming you are in range) and your opponent's magic phase is essentially shut down.
A common strat seems to be foloraith's robes on the mage, protecting them while in elf form and going away while they are in dragon form.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:43 am 
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my opinion:

Wildform: is usefull for pretty much every unit. cavarly will hit much harder (especially great after the charge), spears will fight better, white lions will bring alot of pain and wont care about dwellers much with base Str of 5.

Flock of doom: can be used to finish or or harm war machines because you always wound on 6.

Pelt: +3 toughness can save your mage or noble. you characters are important and expensive thus you might as well try to save their skinny asses.

Amber spear: great for taking out monsters or steam tanks

Curse: is a cheap "Final transmutation" if the unit moves. can be useful in combat. the debuff is great against shooting units with shorter ranges because the have to move in range :) great on expensive deathstars because your oponent will want them to move into combat and moving means throwing for dangerous terrain.

Beast: noble with 6 A Str 9? hell yeah!

Transformation: is basically a powerfull combat buff for the unit the mage sits in. also provides you with template weapon the HE lack

if you run cavarly then this might be worth it cause alot of those spells will have -1 casting value, especially beast is awesome. the buffs are even better when you run more then 1 noble, maybe on eagle, cause you can affect all characters with it. I killed a steam tank with a beast buffed noble once, was pretty awesome :) the big downside are the short ranges, your oponent might use this against you and force you to spread out.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:23 am 
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I have used it successfully twice, but i seam to always get screwd over by Transformation, i either blow up, get dispeled, or i end up in an argument saying i get pushed outta base contact and dont get to fight. The rest of the spells have done alright, Flock of Doom kind of nice to pop shot Warmachines with, Wildform is nice, i have used Savage beat on a mage to make him str6 4A which was kind of fun, Curse of Anraheir is my favorite though, most people hitting us on 5s and 6s now along with making movement very dangerous specially on things with low armour and it does D6 wounds again'ts chariots.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:05 pm 
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If im not mistaken you dont test for terrain if you do a normal move right?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:19 am 
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Yup, but they can't charge or march, which is pretty limiting.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:22 am 
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I have run a beast mage for 5 times now, and I lost all of these games (which does not say much, as I lose all my HE-games).
Some things to consider:

The whole lore is very much jack of all trades. You have nice buffs (wildform), a magic missle that kills almost any single model that does not spot a wardsave (cannons etc.), curse of anraheir is a multifunctional debuff, the penalty to hit is really awesome and khadorns transformation turns the mage into a combat monster.

Wildform: Usefull for anybody who is not a white lion, but even WLs can profit from the toughness. If you have amber spear and wildform, you have a pretty nice protection from shooting at least for one unit (in my last game my spears got a full hit from a catapult and due to wildform only suffered 3 casualities). Phoenix guards become obscene with this buff.

Flock of doom: Quite crappy, you can snipe weapon teams with it or frie some witches, I have not found much use for it.

Anraheirs curse: I think it is extremely bad news for any charriots, but we did not have a rulebook yesterday, so we were not sure if the charriot gets the hits every time it moves. Generaly the -1 to hit is worth its weight in gold.

Kadorns Transformation: The rules for this one a quite a mess, and all of my enemies let it through their first time I cast it. It is only useable with folariaths, and if you put the archmage into the classic 7 wide WL-formation, you will probably move out of basecontact. If you manage to keep the mage into basecontact, it really depends on whom you are fighting. If its ini2 troops, than its more or less game over for them, as you can transform into a dragon without losing the ASF. Hydras and Chimeras also make good monsters as they both have breath weapons and the chimera is ini5. As an additional Icing on the cage you can win any challenges with overkill (esp. usefull against WoC).
The best thing about the transformation although is that it is a RiP spell, which means you can give a deads skaven tail about warmachines and spells. Just throw in your breath weapon (and if you are in close combat, your ASF attacks) and dispell it yourself if you are afaraid of the armor ignoring multiwound weapons of the enemy.

Cons:
Does need certain equipment (folariaths),
Some rather useless spells (who needs +3 toughness for one character?)


In the end you have to ask yourself, what does lore of beast do for my army that shadow cant?

Beast has 3 close combat affecting spells (wildform, anraheirs and transformation), shadow has 4 (3 debuffs and okkhams). Which one is better is hard to say, but in general shadow has more different debuffs and is a little more random.

Pit of shades and amber spear can both be used as warmachine/monster killer, with the amber spear being a little more reliable (always hits) and the PoS being a little more “overall” usefull, as you can also cast bits out of enemy infantery blocks with it.

In my book, lore of beast is a little underestimated by most of my opponents, as it is a little more subtle than “My spears have str 8!” It does suffer from the danger of ending with a crapload of useless spells (which shadow does not) and even with folariaths standing in a unit of White lions the mage is still not as save as in his usual PG or archer bunker. (the best strategie against a folariaths beastmage is imho to simply concentrate everything you have on his infantery bus, as soon as it has gone the way of all flesh (which is not that difficult) you can beat the mage down with combat res or fry him with magic missles. This screams for Phoenix guards as as the mages carrier unit and I have yet to try this one out (having the option to dispell wildform on phoenix guard or transformation on a mage is rather awkward).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:34 am 
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Quote:
Wildform

it is also one of the rare options to help against dwellers. a white lion horde with S5 is pretty resistant to dwellers.

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Flock of doom: Quite crappy, you can snipe weapon teams with it or frie some witches, I have not found much use for it.

great for warmachines (you always wound on 6) and ethereal units in vampire army

Quote:
Anraheirs curse: I think it is extremely bad news for any charriots, but we did not have a rulebook yesterday, so we were not sure if the charriot gets the hits every time it moves. Generaly the -1 to hit is worth its weight in gold.

yes it is bad news for chariots. oh hai steam tank! (btw does doomwheel count as chariot?)

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Kadorns Transformation

template weapon each time you use it (it is no dwellers but great against most horde units), can win a combat and RIP as bonus.

Quote:
Some rather useless spells (who needs +3 toughness for one character?)

save a noble in a challenge or use it on a mage that has a weaker Transformation running to make him unkillable.

Quote:
the best strategie against a folariaths beastmage is imho to simply concentrate everything you have on his infantery bus, as soon as it has gone the way of all flesh (which is not that difficult) you can beat the mage down with combat res or fry him with magic missles

well if someone really tries to focus your unit with the mage down then its almost a free win as you can easily force your opponent to spread and set up flank charges. your other elite will be mostly unharmed too and what if the mage manages to turn into something nasty?

it all depends on your army setup. as soon as your army needs alot of magical support to work well then beast is not for you. if your run big spears blocks and phoenix guard then beast is not for you because spears and phoenix guard like withering and mindrazor too much. if you run white lions, mounted heroes and cavarly then beast might work well. white lions with Wildform are almost as killy as with mindrazor but resist more dmg and your spells are bit easier to cast on cavarly/mounted heroes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:37 am 
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Amber spear could be a lot more effective IMHO. As it is the base form doesnt really work well against monsters or warmachines, and the boosted form is too expensive considering it has no range boost. Flock of doom cant be used to snipe warmachines (24 inch range) and it takes 3 turns of casting to kill a 3 wounds warmachine on average anyway(by which time the mortar would have obliterated your fragile swordmasters).

Kadon requires you to put a mage in a 5 wide formation to work(or he ends up out of base to base), and being dispellable is a very, very bad thing as it prevents the mage from running around causing damage by himself (dispel kadon, lone mage standing there, dies to a magic missle or gets charged and runs). Also requires forliaths at bare minimum (expensive to kit out).

The two character boosting spells would be more versatile if you could cast it on champions, but IMHO HE have mid tier melee characters as it is...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:35 pm 
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One of the major downsides is miscasts. Beast is almost as expensive as life, without the protection of throne, so expect to see a lot of mages sucked into chaos. I would at least recommend having a good lvl 2 secondary on hand.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:36 pm 
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I run Lore of Beast exclusively in my Wood Elf army. There are two things you need to know if trying to import this knowledge into a HE army.

1, just don't use transformation. EVER! It will see your Mage killed and unable to suport your army. Just exchange it for wildform if you roll a 6.

2, Running Beasts requires you to build your army with the spells in mind. Not really tailoring the army for the spells but making sure your army, that functions without them, will be supported by the spells.

So when using beasts it's extremely important that your caster is mobile. Mine is on a unicorn sporting the wand of wychelm and talisman of 4+ward. This allows me to move her around to where she needs to be without getting in LOS of to much shooting. It also provides me with a 2+ ward against magic. If you can build something similar with HE I suggest you do so since magic will be the biggest danger to her. Your army should be able to clear out all shooting by turn 3.

So now on to her uses. I'd recommend having a mobile army with shooting support. In the HE case this will be the mage on eagle supported by 3 nobles on eagles. The Nobles are all fighters in there own right and can take on any support unit by themselves. However, when combined with something like a pair of chariots, 6 Princes or a unit of Lions they will smash any ranked unit to bits. Some might wonder why you need Beasts for this? You don't really NEED beasts. But it helps to argument the strength of the army. Keeping all 3 Nobles within 12" of the mage and your able to give them all +3s and +3a! This makes the Nobles in to killing machines. They will pump out 18 s7 attacks and 6 s4 attacks alone. And this is before magic items. At the same time the mage will be in range to cast wildform on any supporting units. I run wardancers, dryads and wildriders for this. But in a HE army a unit of spears with s4/t4 will rip up the enemy. Other units such as DP/SM/WL will also really get a nice boost from the wildform. I'd also equip one of the Nobles with the radiant gem of hoeth. This gives you access to some really nice signature spells to have as backup. Death sniper is always nice and helps you with heros/lords in bunkers. Shadow adds more combat synergies by lowering WS and shooting defense by lowering BS. Having another Wildform can be nice as well but the 10+ to cast is a bit off-putting.

My army works on avoidance and picking the fights, this is the wood elf way. I'm sad to say that HE can do the same thing, and even be better at it. The fact that HE troops hit as hard as WE do but with the added bonus of armour makes them more resilient. The larger number of eagles available in the rare section also allows the HE player a greater control over what units get to fight in combat and what units that don't.

If you have the units I'd recommend trying out something like this at around 2500p...
AM on eagle
3 Nobles on eagles
2 largish units of seaguard (I run Glade guard in units of 20 to break steadfast, SG should be much better at this)
2-3 chariots
1 mid size elite infantry(WL is my fav for there durability)
1-2 DP units (5-6 strong)
3-4 eagles

A small and agile army that focusing on controlling the movement-phase and picking apart the enemy army by turn 1-3 killing all support and turn 3-6 killing the bigger stuff. Normally the bigger units can not operate with out the support units. You also gain total bord control by killing them off and this allows you to kill off his money units when it's advantageous to you. Most importantly this type of army is really, really fun to play! It's not just a meat-grinder style but requires you to move your army smartly and is really rewarding!


Last edited by joey_boy on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Great post!

How the hell did you come up with this? Here was me thinking there were only about 100 different ways to play HE in 8th and here comes number 101!

:)

Someone has to try this.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:00 pm 
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SpellArcher: It's an adaptation of the way I used to play 7th edition Wood Elves but using the 8th edition rules. The tactics are the same, only the tool have changed with the edition. I alternate between using 3 eagle nobles and 4 Alter nobles in my WE army. For me it's about throwing a wrench in the Meta game. Most army's are geared around mass infantry battles in the center of the bord, If your army is bad at this then you avoid doing it at all costs. :)

I think the Meta will change to include more support and less mass infantry. In a year the norm will probably be 3~ blocks of infantry and the rest in support. People need only look to the army list forum here and see the Cavalry based combined arms lists that would not even be considered 6 months ago!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:55 pm 
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joey_boy wrote:
For me it's about throwing a wrench in the Meta game.

:)

Couldn't agree more! I'm finding my offbeat army and playstyle are still workable in 8th, they just use different mechanisms.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:43 am 
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joey_boy wrote:
1, just don't use transformation. EVER! It will see your Mage killed and unable to suport your army. Just exchange it for wildform if you roll a 6.



If you use him on a mount, I can see the danger, but why would he get killed if stands in a reasonable infantery unit?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:06 pm 
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Paricidas wrote:
joey_boy wrote:
1, just don't use transformation. EVER! It will see your Mage killed and unable to suport your army. Just exchange it for wildform if you roll a 6.



If you use him on a mount, I can see the danger, but why would he get killed if stands in a reasonable infantery unit?


It's on foot only, so mounting him will take the spell out of the equation. You could have him on a flying carpet and use the robes to keep him safe. However, the only time it's good to use transformation in an infantry unit is if your about to get the AM killed. Since it's a lot of dice for casting and a RIP spell you'll not be supporting the army with spells and just hoping that you can pull off a Hail Mary with it. Also if you leave the unit to charge or to drop flame templates your putting yourself at a risk since your on foot and have limited mobility. If I would have the mage in a unit I'd rather cast Pann's pelt on him to help keep him safe then throw wildform or curse on the unit so I win the combat. But basically I don't run any straight up combat units, all my units need to work together with something else to win combat big, and I never go into combats that I don't win big. That is the true strength of the army :)

But most importantly the mobility of the mounted mage lets him use all the buff spells where they are needed. The type of army I'm using is not static and will normally flow from one flank to the other to pick of the enemy where they present there weaknesses. For me it's more about having the mobility to get out of a tight spot and get to where my spells will help me the most the getting of transformation once a game. The other spells all work well every turn :)

Basically the spell dose not really aid your army in any way.

Flock of doom helps against support units like fast cav, scouts, flyers and missile infantry.
Pann's pelt will allow your heros to tank a lot of damage and more or less ignore all small arms fire as well as offer some protection against bolt-throwers and stone-throwers.
Amber spear is great at killing monsters with s10 D6 wounds and pretty solid against chariots and MI in the small version.
Curse is one of the best spells in the lore. Restricting movement and adds protection with the -1 to hit. It also adds to the control aspect of the army and slows down units and makes it very risky to make charges without overwhelming numbers.
Savage beast will make your heros into monsters and with the AOE option you can affect all your heros in a 24" bubble!(12" to each side of the mage :) )


Last edited by joey_boy on Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:10 pm 
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Yes! I use Beasts as my staple lore. Lvl 4 and lvl 2. I also never ever take Transformation if it can be avoided... pretty easy with two mages. Wildform and Savage Beast are two of my favourite spells in the new edition. I know Mindrazor is the top spell for HE players here but Wildform will turn your DP's into Chaos Knights with better movement and your Spear Elves into something comparable to a block of Saurus with spears. Except with both you strike first and get re-rolls. Savage Beast, especially the area of effect version, is great for turning the tide in later turns when I find HE numbers start to dwindle quite badly. Both these spells also help turn my bunkered Mages in a PG unit into a fearsome combat force. 8 strength 6 attacks from two Mages? Yes please! Another advantage is that Wildform makes units more durable when facing Dwellers. Sure you will still lose a lot of models but you'll make important units less of an attraction for the spell.

Curse of Anraheir is one of my favourites too. It lets HE who already dominate the movement phase just own it. Who wants to lose a third of their unit and then strike at -1 to get off a charge? Especially if you've got Wildform or Savage Beast out. The Spear has it's uses too against monsters and cavalry and well-armoured infantry. Impenetrable Pelt has limited use but is still cool if you need one of your characters not to die. Flock of Doom is also limited but works pretty well against Skinks and most scouts given that they tend not to have much armour or toughness. Though against Skinks it feels good to have them not killing your eagles.

There are a couple of other sneaky uses for the lore too like sniping wizards in units with Eagles by giving them Wildform. Though if I've done that more than once it's a lot. As a support lore it is awesome. It helps avoid the HE glass cannon to some degree and turns an already strong CC army into something quite scary.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:07 pm 
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This begs a question. Does infantry and cav provide cover for eagle mounted characters? Do eagles provide cover for other eagles? Do eagles provide cover for dragons and vice versa?

The reason I ask this is because I actually have been thinking about this type of army with lots of eagles and mounted characters. But I was wondering how to shield them from shooting and such. I thought if I put an eagle or two in front of a character on an eagle it might help shield him. But was not sure about that. What say you?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:32 pm 
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If more then half of the unit is covered then you gain hard cover for your unit.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:34 pm 
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joey_boy wrote:
If you have the units I'd recommend trying out something like this at around 2500p...
AM on eagle
3 Nobles on eagles
2 largish units of seaguard (I run Glade guard in units of 20 to break steadfast, SG should be much better at this)
2-3 chariots
1 mid size elite infantry(WL is my fav for there durability)
1-2 DP units (5-6 strong)
3-4 eagles


What a great list! I'd love to have a go at playing something like that some time.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Lore of Beasts has a real bad spell ( the magic missisle that causes S2 hits ) and the amber spear is not relevant if you can take an RBT with BS4 instead.
This leaves five spells of which two are very specific : they boost one or all of your character's combat abilities. IMO, the only reason to take a Lvl 4 Beastmage when playing a HE force, is if you load up on Nobles and plan on boosting them with either or both of the two spells available.
I could definatly see the merits of a Lvl 1/2 supporting beastmage though! the signature spell is so awesome if you could cast it on dragon princes on the turn they are charging.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Kulgan wrote:
Lore of Beasts has a real bad spell ( the magic missisle that causes S2 hits ) and the amber spear is not relevant if you can take an RBT with BS4 instead.
This leaves five spells of which two are very specific : they boost one or all of your character's combat abilities. IMO, the only reason to take a Lvl 4 Beastmage when playing a HE force, is if you load up on Nobles and plan on boosting them with either or both of the two spells available.
I could definatly see the merits of a Lvl 1/2 supporting beastmage though! the signature spell is so awesome if you could cast it on dragon princes on the turn they are charging.


1st If your RBTs autohit, wound warmachines on 2+ and deal 3 wounds, then you really do not need amber spears.
2nd Wyssans wildform is at complexity 10, a lvl1 will suck try half of your power-dice-pool if he tries to cast that on a reliable basis.
3rd DPs already have str 5 and a 2+ armor save. Additionally, they only have 10 attacks. They are probably one of the units that profits the least from a +1 str + 1 toughness (at least when they charge).


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:32 am 
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I do not reckon casting an amber spear at 15+ to kill one warmachine ( or rather, have a +-70% chance to kill it ) to be a good investment. And I honestly believe most people agree with me over this bit.

Wyssan's cast at DP's would be 9+ to cast. Making a lvl 2 only needing a 7 to cast. With three dice this is playing very safe. Offcourse a secondary caster won't get 3 dice if you roll 2+2 for winds of magic. But when you roll 8+ I can see myself spending 3 dice to get wyssans

And I do find it amazingly good to have S6 if you are charging Mounstrous infantry with T4/T5. You will kill several more with the one extra strength, then take less hits back as well with the extra thoughness.



I like an argument over tactics, and I stick to facts. When stating opinions I make it clear this is an opinion.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:20 pm 
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Kulgan: I agree with most of your points. It's never worth buying a lvl4 beastmage for wildform. And the Amber spear IS at a huge casting value when boosted.

However. The lore is still great if your running a list that the spell arguments. Taking a list with a lvl4+BSB and the rest in infantry units, then beast magic is really not the right lore to use. But if you like playing with combat heroes and mobile cav units supported by shooting and one or two infantry units then Beast magic will really boost the list you want to play. And this is IMO the basis for picking the lore your using in any army, looking at what adds to the strengths of your force.

With the type of list I like to play Beast is hands down the best lore to use, it's also the most cost effective since spells like savage beast, pann's and curse will support more then one unit at the time. The Amber spear, while having a casting value that is generally to great to be a good investment, adds flexibility to the lore and allows me to do some damage and soften up monsters and warmachines before I start casting the combat buffs. I feel it adds tactical flexibility in a way that 200p worth of bolt throwers do not. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:41 pm 
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Played a game yesterday against Empire and I threw 6 dice at the big Amber Spear. He'd already used up his scroll on the Curse and managed to get rid of it. I did the same to him. :P But anyway I threw it at the Arch Lector rolled a 6 to randomize and he failed his ward and rolled I 5 wounds but even going by averages you should kill a lord level character with three wounds anyway. So that spell went a long way in winning me that game. We played another game after that and he chose to destroy the Amber Spear instead the second time. It may not always be useful but there are cases when it is incredibly useful.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:16 am
Posts: 701
Location: Vienna, Austria
Here some experiences with transformation:

Very much cons on this part:
Its unsure to get it through and you need folariaths.
You want to get the lvl4 into CC, so obviously he should go in a strong CC unit, which is most of the time white lions. Problem with that is that most enemies do not want to get into CC with white lions, therefor they are shot/magiced to death before they arrive. The best option against this tactic to use swordmasters as a second elite unit as they are even more an arrow/cannonball magnet than white lions. Additionaly, you want your white lions 7 wide (or wider), which will often prohibit the transformed mage to get into btb with the enemy. So he should always be in a 5 wide unit, and 5 is something WLs do not want or need (only good for steadfast...)
Conclusion: Take them in phoenix guards. They are normaly neither shot nor magiced, they run 5 wide and they get a huge boost from the monster.

In none of my games I had any problems with my mage being vulnerable. As long as he does not lose combat, he is simply unkillable.

Problem: The BRB contradicts itself as it says the mage stays in the unit when transformed and on another page it says monsters do not join units. Therefor it is sometimes common practice to let him stay in the unit during the first turn he is transformed but is seperated from the unit the turn after, very unclear rules.

In my last game I had the great pleasure to encounter a mage that is even more deadly with beast than a HE. A Vampire with beast loremaster and red fury who turns into a mountain chimaera is definitifly not something you want in CC with your t3 elfs. (He got around 22 kills in his first round of combat...)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:46 pm
Posts: 77
Paricidas wrote:
Problem: The BRB contradicts itself as it says the mage stays in the unit when transformed and on another page it says monsters do not join units. Therefor it is sometimes common practice to let him stay in the unit during the first turn he is transformed but is seperated from the unit the turn after, very unclear rules.


Not a contradiction at all. The Mage doesn't join the unit as a monster, he/she joins as infantry. As the mage is already joined when he/she turns into a monster, it's perfectly fine to assume that he/she remains joined to the unit until he/she leaves it, as that's what the spell tells you to do!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 141
chris_havoc wrote:
Played a game yesterday against Empire and I threw 6 dice at the big Amber Spear. He'd already used up his scroll on the Curse and managed to get rid of it. I did the same to him. :P But anyway I threw it at the Arch Lector rolled a 6 to randomize and he failed his ward and rolled I 5 wounds but even going by averages you should kill a lord level character with three wounds anyway. So that spell went a long way in winning me that game. We played another game after that and he chose to destroy the Amber Spear instead the second time. It may not always be useful but there are cases when it is incredibly useful.


Funny because a save or die actually has a higher chance of killing that arch lectore than a boosted amber spear.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:33 pm
Posts: 138
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Yeah he didn't tell me it had magic MR2... so apologies there.

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