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 Post subject: Characters in Chariots
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:14 am 
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Hi all

I'm currently building a High Elf list and wanted your views on the best mount for my Characters. I'm thinking competative builds here and in events where the comp takes out the Dragon. I'd like to use Chariot mounts but can see the downside, giving away free combat res in S7 challenges for one, but would like to hear how people have got on. Is it a big no-no or can it be made to work with the right back up?

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 1:19 pm 
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SpellArcher is the man about chariots mounts!

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 1:23 pm 
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they work for wizards and support characters. I wouldn't want to put a prince in one however.

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 2:09 pm 
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I've never really tried it but I can see the advantage for mages. Good movement speed and the ability to wheel to face any direction at will is a big plus for those line of sight spells. If you are magic heavy in your list, I can see it being worth the points spent, but otherwise maybe not.

SpellArcher runs a Prince in his, I think. He seems to enjoy it and can probably expound on the benefits better.

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 3:08 pm 
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If S7 auto-kill is removed, we may see a Renaissance in character chariots.

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Musashi wrote:
If S7 auto-kill is removed, we may see a Renaissance in character chariots.


That is in the back of my mind - if the rumours are true then it would be a much easier decision. Also if I could put the character on a Lion Chariot that would help.

I was thinking more of having a Prince on the chariot rather than a Mage as I'm always nervous of going magic heavy. I've had far too many duff magic phases in the past to go all out magic.

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 4:31 pm 
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if characters were able to mount lion chariot I was even consider it. The Tiranoc Chariots are just too weak compared to other chariots

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:27 pm 
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The question is, are you willing to take a hit in list efficiency to play a particular way? I like the way a chariot Prince plays and have experience and understanding of it but overall it is a slight handicap in power terms.

Advantages are:

1) US5. Table quarters and rank breaking. Essentially the chariot turns the Prince into a (rather fragile) fighting unit.
2) Hits fairly hard. Combo charges with him are deadly. Put in Talisman of Loec and he can hurt stuff.
3) Flexibility. Chariots are very maneouvrable. He can do little shimmies and such that are very handy. Especially good to set up shots with a magic bow.
4) Independence. He's not tied into a unit. You can run him around flanks fairly confident that shooting/magic will go against the chariot first. This also lets you put your Ld10 where you need it most.
5) He looks way cool!

Disadvantages:

1) Cannon. These make short work of the chariot and leave him vulnerable on foot. Note though that he can deploy anywhere within 2" of the destroyed chariot, which is likely to give hiim a good move option if he survives.
2) Fear. He's only US5 and has no Fear protection so is vulnerable to being autobroken. Loec is your friend here.
3) Speed. Move 9 means he can get left behind by his own cavalry. However the 18" charge is excellent.
4) He's not a Star Dragon or an Archmage! By taking him you are giving up both the most powerful magic phase option and the most powerful monster option.

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 1:17 am 
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i've taken korhil in a white lion chariot many times and is great. He causes fear and pretty much always devastates a flank. He even gets pretty protected from cannon balls cos of my dragon flying around and using forrest terrain. Impact hits, all those lions and his killing blow attacks are great. I use him just behind my main line that goes on the offensive just before they hit me. After 3 bolthrowers and 20 archers have softened something up he can sometimes take a unit on his own.


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:10 am 
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Korhil is one of those characters that I wish we had more of, the flexibility to deploy him either independently or as part of a unit synergizing his gods given traits.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:50 pm 
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I've tried a Fire Seer Mage w FSoR lv2 recently to mix things up a little.
Its actually turned out really well for me, and was fun to play

SpellArcher points out the weeknesses spot on.

Having said that, i reckon one of our strongest lists in 8th edition could see characters in chariots - they're cheap (important with the points cap), they don't snap at the sight of a cannon, and give a few buffs. Think of them simply, 85pts for D6 hits on the charge, an extra 3 st 4 attacks each CC, 18" charge, save bonuses, Toughness 4.

lovely with a magic bow too...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:40 am 
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Brian Mage wrote:
Having said that, i reckon one of our strongest lists in 8th edition could see characters in chariots - they're cheap (important with the points cap), they don't snap at the sight of a cannon, and give a few buffs. Think of them simply, 85pts for D6 hits on the charge, an extra 3 st 4 attacks each CC, 18" charge, save bonuses, Toughness 4.

lovely with a magic bow too...


Doesn't the character replace one of the crew? Making it one S4 hit (on the charge) and two S3 attacks from the mounts. #-o

One thing I worry about is if you charge in with a Prince on a chariot and challenge a hero, the attacks could be distributed against the rather weak chariot rather than the bulletproof Prince, causing some easy combat res. Something to worry about perhaps?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Pash wrote:
One thing I worry about is if you charge in with a Prince on a chariot and challenge a hero, the attacks could be distributed against the rather weak chariot rather than the bulletproof Prince, causing some easy combat res. Something to worry about perhaps?

Is this an 8th edition change?

As I understand it challenge attacks have to go against the Prince?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:29 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
As I understand it challenge attacks have to go against the Prince?

This


Brian Mage wrote:
an extra 3 st 4 attacks each CC, 18" charge, save bonuses, Toughness 4.

lovely with a magic bow too...


Doesn't the character replace one of the crew? Making it one S4 hit (on the charge) and two S3 attacks from the mounts.


true brainfart :oops: , was counting horses as st4, so yeah, 1 st4 & 2 St3, still better than no extra attacks tho

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:42 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Pash wrote:
One thing I worry about is if you charge in with a Prince on a chariot and challenge a hero, the attacks could be distributed against the rather weak chariot rather than the bulletproof Prince, causing some easy combat res. Something to worry about perhaps?

Is this an 8th edition change?

As I understand it challenge attacks have to go against the Prince?


The way I understand the rules, the whole model (including the mount ie. the chariot) get's to make it's attacks bar the extra crewman. It works very much like riding a dragon or a horse in the way that both the mount and the Prince are involved in the challenge.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:28 pm 
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Pash wrote:
The way I understand the rules, the whole model (including the mount ie. the chariot) get's to make it's attacks bar the extra crewman. It works very much like riding a dragon or a horse in the way that both the mount and the Prince are involved in the challenge.

This is pretty much as I thought, the steeds fighting but the crewman not and impact hits if any being resolved outside the challenge if possible. On re-reading the BRB though I now agree with you that the chariot can be targeted, as it doesn't say it can't.

Though I think the Prince's four ASF attacks with the Talisman might reduce the problem a bit!

:)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:14 am 
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Chariots could always be targeted in a challenge as it is considered a mount and therefore is in the challenge n so it can be targeted.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:30 pm 
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Maybe I was thinking of how it was under 6th.

Or was I even wrong about that?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:00 pm 
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I think I have a stick. And have got it at the wrong end too...

Not a regular scenario, but
Lord on Tiranoc charges enemy unit, He issues challenge to Enemy Character, Accept, they fight, Rest of chariot fights (horses, crew etc) the rest of enemy unit?

Is this wrong? this is how we've always played it coz it just seems right to us.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:53 pm 
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No, horses+character attack enemy character, crew doesn't fight, as does the enemy unit.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:04 pm 
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orka wrote:
No, horses+character attack enemy character, crew doesn't fight, as does the enemy unit.


Which seems to be quite counter-intuative in my opinion. Yeah, it's meant to be a fight between two single characters but if the damn horses are getting in on the action what about the lone crewman with a spear?! Poor elf just has to act as cabbie for the ponsy Prince :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:23 pm 
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Again, memory may fail here but I seem to remember under 6th the entire chariot being excluded from the challenge and the Prince having to fight solo the enemy character plus his dragon!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:54 pm 
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the thing is mounts fight in the challenge in the same way if a prince on a horse or dragon. so the horses and dragon fights. since the chariot is consider both a mount and a unit. only the mounts attacks (horses) in the challenge n not the other elf because he's in the "unit".

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:38 pm 
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pk-ng wrote:
the thing is mounts fight in the challenge in the same way if a prince on a horse or dragon. so the horses and dragon fights. since the chariot is consider both a mount and a unit. only the mounts attacks (horses) in the challenge n not the other elf because he's in the "unit".


But then this puts us in a strange pickle: the elf in the chariot WILL be attacked but is NOT allowed to attack back! That's pretty lame in my opinion. Although, for all the good a single S4/S3 attack will do in combat..

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