Ulthuan

Ulthuan, Home of the Asur
It is currently Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:06 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 54
I have never had a Shadow Warrior model, so i thought about buying some and fielding them in battle. Their fluff is great, the models are fine, and then i looked at their stats, and i was really underwhelmed.

They just dont fit the huge build-up of their fluff and description - i found them to be just overpriced archers with scout... Sure, they have hatred, but what use is it against Machine crew? they destroy those anyway, and if you get them to any CC that is not with machine crew you lost them anyway...

The Dark Elf shades, are, of course, much better.

Did i miss something? how effective do you find SWs for their points?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:12 am 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12242
Location: Otherworld
The bottom line for me is that SW's are the only skirmishing unit in the army list. If you like skirmishers, they're worth taking. If you don't, they aren't.

White_Phoenix wrote:
Sure, they have hatred, but what use is it against Machine crew?

Key against Dwarfs and kills others faster and more reliably.

White_Phoenix wrote:
if you get them to any CC that is not with machine crew you lost them anyway...

The 10" 360 degree charge lets you pick your targets quite well. Enemy light troops and flanks are good places to start. Also they are really good for combined charges.

White_Phoenix wrote:
The Dark Elf shades, are, of course, much better.

We have to work with what we've got.

I'll just give the standard list of other things they do:

1) March Block
2) Redirect Charges
3) Hold table quarters
4) Bunker characters
5) Shoot targets Archers can't see
6) Screening

The main thing is not to say 'I've bought these for X job' IMHO. Assess the battlefield and pick the best task for them at the time. The great thing is they go down last so you can do this reliably.

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Last edited by SpellArcher on Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:11 pm
Posts: 79
If i plan to use them, i field them at minimum size for about 80pts and use their scout to go marchblocking first turn (as soon as possible), because eagles can get behind enemy lines on turn2. Some DE players in my gaming club like to flame them with hydra while they run in circles around them so they give me some time to deal with other stuff. Since they move 10" if i manage to get near no heavy cavalry will ever march :lol: But since there`s isn`t always a terrain available for them to get near the enemy i tend to leave them at home.

_________________
The Slaughter Now Ensues
Bodies Fall Like Rain
They Valiantly Pursue
Yet Doomed To Remain
At The Double Quick They Charge
The Canister Rips Through Them
To The Mouth Of hell They March
Glory, The Only Gain


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:20 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Hassia in Germany
If you like fluff and minis, use them! They are, what they are: Light Infantry!

_________________
My Darker Elfs: No love...no mercy...not here...not in Naggarythe
and click here to see my CMON-Site


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:30 am
Posts: 56
I think they are ok, if a bit expensive. The only thing they do better than other units is march block (along with eagles), they are the only scouts in our army, so if you want scouts, take them. Otherwise, leave them at home. They really don´t do much more other than march block, shoot some arrows, and if allowed disrupt the enemy artillery or missile units. Alternatively they can serve as a screen for other more vulnerable unit like swordmasters. When i include them i take a single unit of 5 miniatures, which is not too expensive and allow you to almost always make use of their scout role (they are a lot easier to hide than a big unit, or multiple units of 5), which is for me the only big selling point of them. If you combine a shadow warrior unit, hiding in some forest, with two eagles, you pretty much can march block several important units of the enemy.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:56 pm
Posts: 2006
Overcosted; only really useful if you want to occupy some terrain piece, or prevent your opponent from doing so.

Moderately useful against Dark Elves.

_________________
Image
Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander
Crowbot_Jenny
Sunrise
avatar
The_Castle_Series_4_Episode_5

But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing: Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:56 pm
Posts: 958
Location: The Netherlands
I better pay for reavers. At least they can kill skinks....

_________________
-"Humans are the cruelest of animals" Friedrich Nietzsche -


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:22 pm 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12242
Location: Otherworld
What I found using skirmishers game after game was that new options occurred to me I wouldn't have seen otherwise.

They are the only unit we have that can 360 degree charge for instance and that can be very useful. I too use a unit of five, though others use 7's etc with success.

I think they complement Reavers, I found Scouts and Glade Riders worked very well together.

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:36 pm
Posts: 357
They hit harder than people expect. they are also great for baiting frenzied stuff into the woods (which is just where you want those Khorne knights)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:45 am
Posts: 782
Location: Tower of Hoeth (Australia)
I used them a couple times and was quite happy with their performance. They make a good unit for a scouting Prince/Noble with a magic bow. And their other good uses have already been mentioned.

_________________
"You only get one chance to make a last impression."
"For every choice, a consequence."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:11 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Univeristy of Glasgow
You can use a unit of 7 or 8 to guard the flank of your battle line from a dragon or heavy flyer charge. place them so theres no place for it to land, with the closest skirmisher pulling the dragon out of the path of your infantry, maybe in front where they can flank it. of course it doesnt stop the said flyer from just ignoring them and breathing on stuff but if you have another block or something behind your main army that basically covers that space you can render a dragon useless for a few turns.

also consider using big units of shadow warriors as expensive, closely packed archers. their damage output isnt great, but they can cram more shots in a tight space and at all angles.

so think a little bit outside the box I guess. but regardless theyre not worth their points if you just stick em in a forest and shoot.

_________________
For the dwarfs, there was only this. Hammerson met Grombrindal’s gaze, and the White Dwarf nodded slowly. If it must be done, let it be done well. Whether they were dead or alive, that was the only way dwarfs knew how to do anything.

And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:41 pm 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12242
Location: Otherworld
Lord Anathir wrote:
with the closest skirmisher pulling the dragon out of the path of your infantry

I find SW's really useful and redirection is an art I haven't even begun to master.

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:37 pm
Posts: 390
Shadow Warriors look poor compared to Shades.
Glade Guard Scouts look poor compared to Shadow Warriors.

Shadow warriors are fine, especially if a list that lacks skirmishers.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:03 am 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12242
Location: Otherworld
Minsc wrote:
Glade Guard Scouts

No-one seems to use these but I found them great in the old days and I still think they've got potential!

Watch out for my next trick, as I attempt to smash Daemons up with Forsaken!

:)

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:59 am
Posts: 654
Location: South of the Equator
I've used them a few times... Scout is a really useful ability, and the WS5 and rerolls to hit can be telling if you get them into combat with an enemy missile/light infantry unit.

_________________
What happened to you Ulthuan? You used to be so cool... :(


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:11 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Univeristy of Glasgow
I just played a game with 2x7 shadows protecting rbt.. and they did a decent job. If the rbt is not on a hill they cut off vision arcs from flyers very well and keep plucking shots away at stuff. I think they're good in high numbers.

by using 2 units you can sandwich your rbt and give it a thin sliver of vision to the flyer target. the flyer cant charge the rbt because it has no where to land, and chances are after an rbt and shadow volley, stand and shoot, and asf with hatred, your shadow warriors can beat off fell bats, warhawks, terradons, and similar equivalents. archers can do it too but they arent as mobile as the shadow warriors

_________________
For the dwarfs, there was only this. Hammerson met Grombrindal’s gaze, and the White Dwarf nodded slowly. If it must be done, let it be done well. Whether they were dead or alive, that was the only way dwarfs knew how to do anything.

And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:56 pm
Posts: 2006
That's expensive FlAK.

At one time, I used to stick Teclis in a squad of SWs.

_________________
Image
Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander
Crowbot_Jenny
Sunrise
avatar
The_Castle_Series_4_Episode_5

But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing: Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:45 am
Posts: 65
Musashi wrote:
At one time, I used to stick Teclis in a squad of SWs.

How well did that work out for you?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:56 pm
Posts: 2006
Didn't work that well against DE, though I blame the Dwarves for that.

It was useful during the 6th, because 360 degree LoS and the flexibility of being able to move out of trouble into various types of terrain was quite useful. Now, while I concentrate primarily on Drain Magic, it's no longer important, as the offensive spells only need to be used if your opponent gets too close to personal space.

However, someone who may be more arcanely aggressive might find it a useful tactic.

_________________
Image
Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander
Crowbot_Jenny
Sunrise
avatar
The_Castle_Series_4_Episode_5

But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing: Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:55 pm
Posts: 881
I love my shadow warriors. The can do may different roles that have already been explained by others so dont want to flog a dead horse. I find that most games the opponant will just ignore them as they have far too much other stuff that they need to take down other than my str3 1 attack shadow warriors.

70% of the time they will kill there points worth (gotta love knights rolling 1 for armour saves) and 90% of the time they survive, saving me 160pts


All depends on your play style though

_________________
Twitter: @chumphammer
Podcast: http://www.chumphammer.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 12:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:18 am
Posts: 560
Location: Tasmania, Australia
If you are keen to get the first turn with a Shooty/Magic list & Skeinsliver the Shadow Warriors would count as 1 less deployment unit as they scout.

_________________
2008-2013 Wins:Draws:Losses
7th Ed High Elves 18 : 9 : 4 Bargle Con I, Best General, 3rd Overall
New High Elf Book 16 : 1 : 5 Bargle Con II, 2nd Overall, Conviction 2nd Overall & Best Sportsman

MSU List: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=48650


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:36 pm
Posts: 928
Location: Oklahoma
I don't love the buggers, but they often find it into my list when I can't take a second eagle. They fill the eagle's role decently well, but don't take the rare slot. That's about it.
~Grant

_________________
Ulthuan in Flames: 13/9/6 Bel Hathor 77 kills


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 12:20 am 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12242
Location: Otherworld
I'm now thinking 6 or 7 may be the way to go.

For the few weeks until 8th edition of course!

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:56 pm
Posts: 2006
They're expensive and restricted in usage, but in numbers I'd say either minimum five or try to get nine.

_________________
Image
Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander
Crowbot_Jenny
Sunrise
avatar
The_Castle_Series_4_Episode_5

But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing: Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:51 pm
Posts: 417
I find them one of the funniest units to use and also quite good tbh, I usually field a lord or a hero in the unit if its a lord with bow of seaferer.

The lord was with 8shadow warriors and entered a building and killed off 5savage orc boar boys a boar chariot and a wyvern (and 10savage orcs who stormed the house ;).

But I was mostly impressed with what they managed against dwarfs, I managed to get a flank charge on his hammerers and made them flee for their lives :P (lucky rolls) but still. I find them worth taking.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group