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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:43 am 
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If you KNOW there is an assasin in there then maybe, but i don't really see the point, chucking a couple of units of archers at them will do about the same damage (20 shots on 5's is 6.66 s3 hits) and costs less points than the 4 dice the archmage is throwing at it. Problem is there are better targets for the spell and better spells to cast at the shades.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:48 am 
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It's situational IMHO.

Agreed it would not be the best option often though.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Give both teclis and level 2 mage high magic against magic dependant armies such as Vampires, Dark Elves, and Daemons. You have the level 2 cast draing magic, then have teclis do the same. You will at least get off teclis' Darin magic, and should get off both of them. You will pretty much cripple the enemies' magic phase. Extremely effective against VC which depend on magic to keep their army going.

High magic in general is a balanced lore. Offense(fury of khaine, flames of the phoenix), Defense (shield of saphery), Enhancing(Courage of Aenerion, Curse of Arrow Attraction) and enfeebling(Drain Magic, Vauls unmaking), You pretty much will get a spell that will be of use at some point in the game.

As for the assassin in the unit. Avoid close combat and Blast that unit with magic, as well as Curse of arrow attraction/bolt thrower it. Even units of archers are good.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:14 am 
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I'm not a huge fan of high magic on a lower level but I'd always choose it for a lvl4. Vaul's unmaking can win games easily nowadays. Half the VC items, infernal puppet, pendant of khaleth, banner of hag graef etc can be gamebreaking vs HE. So take them out of the game...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:12 pm 
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The Magic you take depends on 2 main things
1. Your Army Mage set up and
2. Your opponents Race/Army set up

My List has 2 casters and in most cases 1 of them will take High Magic because it provides an extra spell (Drain Magic) for free.

One exception to this rule is Dwarves who do not have a Magic Phase so other Lores of Magic are possible. High Magic can still be taken vs. Dwarves, if you have a shooty list as the Curse of Arrow & Fury of Khaine are still good spells.

vs. Horde armies such as Skaven, BoC, & Green Skins an uber spell is probably required to help kill the large blocks.
Flames of Phoenix: High Magic
Wall of Fire:Lore of Fire
Comet of Cassandora: Lore of Heavens

These multi wound spells are good vs. low armour save hordes

Spirit of the Forge: Lore of Metal is better vs Armored troops such as Dwarves & Cavalry Armies eg:Bretonnians, etc.

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Last edited by Eltherion on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:56 pm 
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Eltherion wrote:
1 of them will take High Magic because it provides the +1 to dispel

Any mage will provide the +1, except the Dragon Mage, no matter the lore he takes.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:21 pm 
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Good call Spell Archer just re read that section +1 to dispel whatever the Lore nice!

*Edited my original post.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:11 am 
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Even the Radiant Gem caddy Prince!

:)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:25 pm 
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Ye seriously nice the Radiant Gem for the points you spend (1 spell & +1 dispel dice).

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:55 pm 
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45 points for a wizard.

What's not to like?

:)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:39 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
45 points for a wizard.

What's not to like?

:)


The only problem is it competes with other nice items.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:14 am 
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Might be worth taking in the next edition.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:41 am 
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To me its a "no brain-er"

My General in 8th (subject to no new magic common items trumping this idea) Will be Lord on Barded Steed, Dragon Armour&shield, Great Weapon (if St2 when mouted is true). Then Radient Gem of Hoeth with Vambraces of Defense

Thats an ASF re-rolling St6 4A fighter with a 2+ re-roll AS & 4+ WS. Fairly good, but then you've got a surprise wizard who can cast with up to 6 dice with +1 to cast on the turn YOU choose (he doesn't need to cast every turn). If you choose the lore right (you'll have to go with the basic spell) he could be awesome.

I plan on playing him almost like a hidden bound spell.
Stick him in unit of DP's or near BSB... or both...

It might not be an optimal build for a lord, but its cheap (290-300? not got book) and fun.

The Order of the Mage Knights returns... (Has anyone already resurected this?)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:27 am 
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On occasion I give redirects, but in all honesty, it was never an optimal build for the current edition, with the exception of Eltharion, and he shines more in command of reconnaissance in force.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:14 pm 
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Musashi wrote:
it was never an optimal build for the current edition

On the basis that it wasn't Teclis or Star Dragon (though some have tried it like this) I agree.

But it was a fully playable one.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:48 pm 
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At 2000 points I think radiant gem is the optimal build (well it has been for me), since it allows me to have a star dragon, a BSB and 2 mages (radiant gem on BSB and BoS on PGs).

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:13 pm 
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Just wanted to pop in to shout out HUGE amounts of love for Drain Magic.

I had a game at my local GW against Lizards last week: a really great opponent (a mate of mine) with a beautiful army and a fascinating game to boot. I wanted to do a report for you guys but I forgot the camera and my mate doesn't know how to get the photos I took off his camera phone, so I haven't bothered (as yet).

Drain Magic was an absolute star for me. He had a Slann and a Skink Priest. His Slann knew all spells of his chosen lore and added a free power dice on to every casting attempt. My magic defence was pretty good at 2000 points- 4DD and 2 Scrolls- but he got the first turn and instantly burned a whole boatload of elves with his lore of fire. I just couldn't stop everything. But every time I got drain off his phase did nothing: fewer spells cast negated the impact of his free dice and he failed casting attempts.

Meanwhile my curse of arrow attraction was allowing me to hit him really hard with my 10 archers, 3 repeaters and reaver bow (the RBTs killed 7 Temple Guard in one phase!). On another turn it allowed only 3 archers to pop off the shaman. Shield of Saphery successfully preserved some spears and my BsB from being chomped by some (very accurate) salamanders, allowing the overwhelming CR to force the break on an important combat. Fury of Khaine burned skinks and helped knock wounds of Kroxi's. Finally, Vaul's Unmaking ruined his BsB's horrible sword.

Honestly, if you've got the right kind of army, High Lore can be SO cost effective. Curse being cast on 6 is totally sick if you have enough firepower and drain is awesome at 7 when your opponent is relying on magic. I've never used Curse of Aenarion as yet, but you can't have everything.


EDIT: I ought to say for those who don't know my list that character-wise I was running:
Lvl 4 AM - Silver Wand, Ring of Fury, 2 x Scrolls.
BsB - GW, DA, Reaver Bow, Talisman of Loec.


With High Magic your archmage can do crucial things on any turn and in any phase of the game since the spells have such different functions. And this flexibility is made better by the fact that a silver wand AM gets 6 spells in total. As an 'all-purpose' lore it suits our army brilliantly.

I was also running Banner of Sorcery to help my magic out.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:57 pm 
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Chracian wrote:
At 2000 points I think radiant gem is the optimal build (well it has been for me), since it allows me to have a star dragon, a BSB and 2 mages (radiant gem on BSB and BoS on PGs).

This is very interesting, shame it's a bit late for me to explore!

Hey, I've been sigged, I've arrived!

:)

I also have found Drain good against Lizards. High is my default Lore for both casters and being able to auto-select both Shield and Curse is very important when you're running tight on power dice.

Seredain wrote:
I've never used Curse of Aenarion as yet, but you can't have everything.

I'm hoping it's a new super-killy spell in our 8th edition army book!

:)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:42 pm 
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SA: i wouldn't try that combination, ot cpsts over 1000 points. i'd try radiant gem/2 scrolls on the lord on dragon (i know, next to no armour..) at least this gets you a shed load of troops.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:23 am 
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This is what I have:
prince, stardragon, VoD, AoC, halberd
BSB, radiant gem, GW, DA
Mage, lvl 2, crystal, ring
2X10 archers
15 PG, FC, BoS
5 DPs
lion chariot
2 RBTs
And another 25 points left for another PG and/or item.
A little light on troops, but dragon/DP charges are devastating, mage and gem BSB can put out some decent magic, PGs and chariot take ages to die (if ever) and make things run off.

I always have high on at least one of the mages, usually the BSB as he can cast shield/drain/curse when in combat.

Shield is nearly always successful (dice/scrolls having been used to stop main mage) and can help the chariot/DPs last quite a bit longer.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:23 am 
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Chracian wrote:
Mage, lvl 2, crystal, ring

Que?

Chracian wrote:
Shield is nearly always successful (dice/scrolls having been used to stop main mage) and can help the chariot/DPs last quite a bit longer

Indeed I've found this is the spell they let go. Sometimes they can just shoot something else but on a crucial combat it makes a difference.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:54 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Chracian wrote:
Mage, lvl 2, crystal, ring

Que?


Meant annulian crystal and silver wand, not ring. #-o

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:32 pm 
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Chracian wrote:
SpellArcher wrote:
Chracian wrote:
Mage, lvl 2, crystal, ring

Que?


Meant annulian crystal and silver wand, not ring. #-o

Oi,
It is illegal combo. Both, Crystal and Wand are Arcane Items. You can have only one from each type (one magical weapon, one magical armour,...)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:37 pm 
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I've played a lot of 1250 points games against vampire counts recently and High Magic is awesome against them. Most of the time I had a L.2 with Seerstaff and a Power Stone who took High Magic and used Drain every turn. The spell alone makes the undead die a lot faster than usually. A Noble with the radiant gem took lore of light for the first spell which is a winner against undead.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:17 pm 
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ninjaska wrote:
It is illegal combo. Both, Crystal and Wand are Arcane Items.


Dammit, 2 scrolls and wand it is then.

I still like high magic though. Curse is good against warmachines, I've noticed. Due to the re-rolls to hit, you are almost guaranteed to kill the crew. In a shooty army (which mine isn't) it can be spectacular.

I think two mages is optimal, so that one can take high and the other can be tailored to the opponent (such as light against vc/doc)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:37 pm 
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curse on a unit shot at by 3 bolt throwers hitting on 4's is 4.5 extra s4 hits. which is less damage than a 2d6 s4 magic missile. it is better by a d6s4 but its casting value is higher.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:09 pm 
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Angel wrote:
A Noble with the radiant gem took lore of light for the first spell which is a winner against undead.

This is one of the few times I'd consider not going High on the lvl1.

Chracian wrote:
Dammit, 2 scrolls and wand it is then.

Seerstaff FTW!

geoguswrek wrote:
curse on a unit shot at by 3 bolt throwers hitting on 4's is 4.5 extra s4 hits. which is less damage than a 2d6 s4 magic missile. it is better by a d6s4 but its casting value is higher.

The good thing about Curse is no LOS required.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:37 pm 
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geoguswrek wrote:
curse on a unit shot at by 3 bolt throwers hitting on 4's is 4.5 extra s4 hits. which is less damage than a 2d6 s4 magic missile. it is better by a d6s4 but its casting value is higher.


But at close range, with 3's to hit, it's a whole different story. And you'll always be wanting to throw 3 dice at Fury: Arrow Curse usually needs only 2 dice - a big difference when you're saving them for big spells.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:48 am 
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on 3's to hit its 4 extra hits (because 12 hit first time round, leaving 6, of which 4 should hit). And admittedly you do save a dice from casting curse of arrow attraction as opposed to a 2d6 s4, but you also have to use 3 bolt throwers to make it better than a d6 s4 magic missile. 3 bolt throwers cost 300 points...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:12 am 
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I take the point about MM's being more efficient in pure damage terms.

Curse really shines when you have a limited spell repertoire. You know it is a spell you'll be able to cast probably every turn.

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