High Elves - Playing to Win, Part 1 - Lords and Heroes

[HERO]

7th Edition High Elves - Playing to Win

I'll start off by saying that I'm relatively new to Warhammer Fantasy compared to many of you veterans. I started playing the game when the High Elves first released their new book in 2007 not because it was a new book, but because I was in love with the lore, the literature, the mysticism and the Dragons. I come from a pretty competitive background; mostly from playing RTS (Real Time Strategy) games such as StarCraft and WarCraft. Whenever I play Warhammer, I can't help but integrate the tools I use in RTS into the tabletop. These tools consist of minimizing your weaknesses while maximizing your strengths; capitalizing on your opponent's flaws and punishing them for each mistake he makes. Because of these key factors, my High Elves triumph in the field time and time again both in casual player and in local tournaments. In the two years that I've played Fantasy, only a small fraction of my High Elves is actually painted. This is not because I'm lazy or that I'm a bad painter, but it's because my soldiers would rather fight to the death every chance they get instead of getting their hair highlighted.

In these next few pages, I will highlight what I find to be the strengths and weaknesses of what I believe to be the finest army in the Old World. I will emphasis greatly on the strengths of the High Elf army, while noting what I find lackluster or not worth their points. Note that each of the things I cover and touch upon is based strictly on my experience as a competitive player. I don't take units for fluff; I take only take what increases my chances at victory on the battlefield. Remember though: In the end, your army is whatever you want to include. This is just a mere guide.

I'll first touch upon our Lords and Hero choices, starting with our two most competitive players: The Prince on Star Dragon and Teclis, High Loremaster of Hoeth.

[HERO]

Prince

There is only one realistic way to field a Prince and that's on top of his Star Dragon. The reason why this is the only viable option is because he cannot compete on the battlefield against the other Lord-level characters of his peers without it. Compare him to the likes of a tooled up Chaos Lord, a Bloodthirster or an unkillable Dreadlord and there's absolutely no way. For example, if you put him a mount in a Dragon Prince setup (you'll see me mention this repeatedly) in Dragon Armor, Shield, Barded Elven Steed, you'll give him a lovely 2+ armor save like most Knights. The bonus? He's immune to flaming attacks of all sorts. This is lovely and all, but compared to other Lords whose armor value is at 0+, this falls kind of short. You can improve this with say... Enchanted Shield with Vambraces of Defense for a lovely 1+ re-rollable and 4+ Ward, but then he doesn't have enough points to pack a punch via Star Lance. This is a problem you'll see the in High Elf book time and time again. I apologize, I shouldn't say "problem". The High Elf army is designed to be specialized; even more specialized than other specialized units of the same type (Chariots, Heavy Cavalry...etc). The Prince has to be either built offensively or defensively. A mixture of both is simply ineffective in terms of how he functions on the battlefield. An offensive Lord is exactly what his name implies: Offense - Go out, kill something, break them in combat, and then run them down. A defensive Lord is someone who can tank, prevent damage, save combat res, and accept challenges from other Lords or Heroes without a problem. A mounted Prince with Star Lance on a barded steed is nice (also take Helm of Fortune and Guardian Phoenix), but having a Star Dragon who can aide in the attack with 6 WS7 S7 is much nicer. Oh, and the Prince on the ground? Forget about it. I've never seen a Prince on foot do any good in the game. Everyone knows he's packing White Sword, Talisman of Loec, 2+/5+ save (that is the optimal build for footsloggers). He's too easily avoided and the lack of mobility not only limits my ability to threaten the enemy, but gives him the +1 on me if his Lord is on a flyer or on a mount. That's the thing about Lord-level characters; they have to be a threat on the battlefield or else they're not worth their points.

Here are my two Star Dragon builds:

Defensive Prince on Star Dragon
Armor of Caledor, Vambraces of Defense, Amulet of Light or Gem of Courage with Lance or Halberd.

As you can see, this is the defensively built Prince on Star Dragon. This offers him a 2+ re-rollable armor save and a 4+ Ward on top of it. Since Armor of Caledor is Dragon Armor, the entire unit (yes, including his mount) is immune to all sorts of fire attacks. With 20 or so points left over, the Prince can go for an Amulet of Light to make all his attacks and the Dragon's attacks Magical. You'll see this in areas where the metagame fields a lot of Ethereal or Wood Spirit armies. The Gem of Courage is available for him so you can opt to take a Leadership test with 3-die, choosing the two lowest. It's a one-time use item, but it's useful for when you Lord actually loses combat and you need an Ld.10 Cold-blood to stay in the game. Sometimes I see players opt to use the Talisman of Loec. I don't understand this reasoning because the purpose of this build is defense. Taking a wound off your Lord so you can swing with your mundane Lance or Halberd is beyond me. Your job is to stay in the game and break things via your Dragon because your Lord is there to take the hits. This is another reason why you see the Halberd more in this type of fight. A S5 weapon is better-rounded than a Lance when you're going to be there for another turn.

Offensive Prince on Star Dragon
Star Lance, Armor of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix, Talisman of Loec.

He only has a 2+ armor save followed by a 5+ ward, but he's packing a S7 Lance that ignores armor saves. He's also using a Talisman of Loec because once he runs into the opposing faction's Lord in a challenge; he'll be taking a wound for the ability to re-roll all hits, wounds and making his opponent re-roll ALL saves of any kind. That means successful ward and regen saves will have to be re-rolled (no armor saves allowed). This build sacrifices the survivability of the defensive Lord setup for something that can hit like a truck from 20" away. You're looking at 6 WS7 S7 attacks from the Dragon followed by 4 WS7 S7 attacks with no armor saves from the Lord. You'll sure kill a lot, but you have to use him very wisely. A careless mistake could mean the death of your Lord and a ton of VPs for your opponent.

[HERO]

Teclis

First things first; Teclis is a Lord-level, Special Character. That means everyone knows what he's capable of. Not only does Teclis know all spells from any of the 8 Lores + High Magic, he can cast any spell with Irresistible Force on the roll of any doubles. That means he's the most powerful offensive caster in the game; he simply cannot be stopped if he gets the spell off and manages to score a double. Not only this, but Teclis gets to ignore the first miscast he makes in every round of magic he casts. This means you can confidently throw 5 dice out on any big spell that you want without fear of ill effects happening to your mage. As if this wasn't enough, Teclis has his Moon Staff that grants him +D3 Power and Dispel dice in each phase of magic. He also has a Scroll of Hoeth that acts exactly like a normal dispel scroll plus if Teclis beats your roll on a roll of D6, the spell is erased from your caster's mind. Teclis is by far the most powerful caster in my eyes. So what's the downside of such a beast? He's Toughness 2 with no saves of any kind. Most players will go out of their way to make sure Teclis dies a horrible death. Otherwise, Teclis will cast spell upon spell with impunity upon your enemies' forces and there's nothing he can do about it. Take Teclis over an Lv.4 Mage if you can fit the points; he's superior in every single way. Remember: If you take Teclis, make sure you protect him with the best of your ability. The enemy is coming for him.

Teclis, being the best offensive caster-lord in the game, should be used exactly as that. He should always take offensively orientated Lores of magic such as Fire, Death, Shadow, Metal or High Magic. All of these Lores have a purpose and should be studied thoroughly in the rulebook.

Lore of Fire is great against just about anything. I find it to be most effective against horde armies that like to move across the battlefield. Key spells that should be cast is Burning Head, Fiery Blast, Conflagration of Doom, and Wall of Fire. These spells can cause some serious panic checks or stop your opponents from advancing all together.

Lore of Death is great against low leadership armies and if your army plans to be in close combat with the enemy. Spells like Steal Soul, Doom and Darkness and Drain Life can be absolutely devastating. Lore of Death is probably the most powerful close-distance magic lore in the game. If you sense that you’ll win combat in the next combat phase, just throw on Doom and Darkness and watch him take leadership rolls with a -3 modifier. Its fun times, really.

Lore of Shadow is amazing vs. low initiative units and Unseen Lurker can be a game-winning when used properly. The two big spells that should be cast here is Unseen Lurker and Pit of Shades. A carefully placed Pit of Shades in the center of a Dwarf or Lizardman infantry block is insanely devastating. It’s also a great way to kill Slann and Dragons because of their low initiative value. Unseen Lurker is a great way to throw your dangerous units into combat early, or to force a flank charge when your opponent least expects it. The best unit choices for Unseen Lurker are normally Dragon Princes or Sword Masters since they best on-demand damage.

Lore of Metal is the bane of heavily armored armies and can stop a War machine dead in its tracks. This is a very powerful and well-rounded lore because it offers magic item protection, war machine protection, a solid 2D6 S4 magic missile, a CC debuff, a character sniper and a 2D6 big spell that absolutely murders heavy armored units with no armor saves. This is probably my favorite Lore because it compensates for the lack of anti-armor that High Elves have. Since our basic Spearmen can stop most basic infantry dead in their tracks, heavily armored high toughness units are our primary targets. Also note that this Lore is incredibly powerful against Tree Spirits that Wood Elves can field. Because of the fact these spells are both magical and flaming, those tree spirits get no ward, no regen and flaming makes flammable Treeman take double wounds.

High Magic is a great lore for Teclis for many reasons. For one, it’s the High Elves’ own Lore and features a large repertoire of useful spells and abilities. Every spell has a use and dependable. Drain Magic is fantastic against armies that rely on single-die casts such as Vampire Counts, Courage of Aenarion makes every unit within 12” Stubborn for break tests, you have your standard 2D6 S4 magic missiles in the form of Fury of Khaine, and you have the awesome Flames of the Phoenix which is absolutely devastating to large infantry blocks with low toughness. Vaul’s Unmaking is the last spell in the Lore and it has the ability to destroy any magical item that the opposing army might possess. This includes their precious Drakenhof Banner, their Runefangs or their Pendant of Kaeleth. As long as the spell it goes off (and it will, with IF), that magic item is gone.

[HERO]

Tyrion

I'd first like to say that Tyrion is a pretty solid choice as a combat Lord choice. He’s not as good as Prince on a Dragon, but he has a lot of things going for him. Tyrion has a 0+ armor save, 4+ ward and 4+ regen. Tyrion is as durable as an unkillable DE Dreadlord but he can also hit back with 4 WS9 S7 flaming attacks that ASFs each round. His trusty mount also factors in 2 WS4 S4 attacks. The thing to note here is that Tyrion has the same charge distance as a Dragon. When he's by himself, he can literally charge 20" across the field in 360 LoS and join combat with anything he pleases. You might think that it’s wise to run Tyrion solo, but the only problem here is that he doesn't cause Fear or Terror, not Immune to Psychology and he's only US2. He’s not going to break anything by himself. Why he's still on a Monster sized base is beyond me, but the fact of the matter is that Tyrion can charge a long way.

I have to admit, I have been experimenting with how to field Tyrion in my last couple of games. I view him as a weaker version of the Prince on Star Dragon. He's not immune to fear, terror or panic and is subject to combat res more so than the Dragon because of his small unit size. For a Lord choice, he works like any other Lord choice in a CC-oriented fashion. You can compare him directly with a Chaos Lord in terms of how killy he is, so you must use him as such. For this reason, I've found greater success using Tyrion in combination with Dragon Princes.

You take Tyrion in a unit of 7x Dragon Princes w/ Full Command, Standard of Balance, Helm of Fortune on the Champion and a BSB w/ Lance and Battle Banner. This would be considered rather "deathstar", but that's the way you want to play him. Tyrion's forte is close combat and there's no greater honor than to place him on the opposite side of your opponents Lord and charge him outright. With this combination, you’re making the unit 5x2 so you can maximize your maneuverability and at the same time, hit hard on the charge. When you hit the enemy, you’re going to be hitting with 4 WS9 S7 attacks from Tyrion, 3 WS6 S6 attacks from the Noble, 7 WS5 S5 attacks from the DPs, and whatever’s left from that takes +D6 more combat res in your favor. If you want, feel free to beef the unit up to 6x2 wide. Also note that the Champion is there with a 1+ re-rollable armor save just in case something silly (like a Ghast) decides to challenge.

Archmage

Let's just start off and say that you would only take the Archmage if you're not taking Teclis for some reason. The Archmage is a good budget Lord-mage because of the amount of items you can take with him. I find the most cost effective build is Silver Wand, Ring of Fury, and 2x Scrolls/Power Stones. This gives him 5/6 spells on the roll, a bound level 3 2d6 S4 magic missile and a slot for either scrolls or power stones depending on what you need. There are other builds with him, but over the time that I've used him in my games, I find that this is the most cost effective. The other choices in the arcane and enchanted items section is better served for lesser Mages. There is one item combination that some people find worthwhile and that’s the unkillable Mage combo. This is achieved when he takes the Folariath's Robe with the Talisman of Saphery. How this combo works is that the Folariath's Robe makes it so nothing can hurt you except magic weapons and attacks. The Talisman of Saphery makes all your opponent's magical weapons count as mundane. So theoretically, nothing can hurt you except for magic or magical attacks such as Daemons or Ethereal creatures. You can use this combo to in combination with a high resilience, combat res unit such as Phoenix Guard and prevent damage caused by the enemy's heavy hitters. Simply issue a challenge and soak up the attacks. Simple.

As for Eltharion and Alith Anar, I would say these two aren’t really considered in our competitive builds. Eltharion is only useful on Stormwing, and for you to drop points into Stormwing you might as well get the real deal in a Star Dragon. Alith Anar is a fun Lord to play with from time to time but only if you feel like annoying your opponents. If he had a Great Weapon or something that can make up for our overpriced and pitiful Shadow Warriors then yeah, I’d play with him more. But since he doesn’t, he falls short of being competitive.

[HERO]

Next, I’ll touch upon the necessities of our Heroes and how they work with our army.

Noble

I'll be honest here: I will only take a Noble for a BSB. There are two ways to build this BSB, the cheap and effective way, or the slightly more expensive but preferred way. The first method is to take him with an Armor of Caledor and have him stand there on foot with a Great Weapon. The second method is to take him in the Dragon Prince setup; Dragon Armor, Shield, Barded Elven Steed. There is no other way to take a BSB in my opinion and ours is one of the game’s best. Why? Because even with a 2+ save, he’s the only one that can’t be sniped by Rule of Burning Iron (Immune to Fire attacks).

The reason why I prefer the mounted version of the BSB is simple: He can pack a 2+ armor save and at the same time, carry two of the greatest Magical Banners ever made; The Battle Banner and the Banner of World Dragon. First, I will talk about the lesser of the two Banners, the Banner of World Dragon. This unique Banner makes whatever unit that's carrying it completely immune to the effects of magic. It doesn't matter if it's hostile, friendly or bound, the unit is completely immune. This is most often used with Dragon Princes because immunity to all things fire, immunity to all things magic, as well as sporting an 2+ armor save against everything else, these things will only die to very little. This automatically makes an already hard to kill unit, even harder to kill.

As for the other more expensive Banner, I almost always take the Battle Banner. This is mainly because changes games. There's nothing better in a High Elf army than breaking the enemy via combat res once they’ve reach your lines. The Battle Banner offers +D6 combat res to whatever combat it's engaged in on top of all existing combat scores. If you have 3 ranks, a Standard and a BSB holding the Battle Banner, you are up at least 6 combat res before you even started combat. Keep in mind that the Battle Banner's +D6 effect works on top of the fact you have a BSB. The power that this banner offers is limitless, as the mounted Noble can offer its assistance charging into the flank of an enemy unit with a unit of Dragon Princes, or hold the line with a block of Phoenix Guard. This flexibility is once again why I prefer mounted BSBs over footsloggers. In terms of whether the mounted BSB should have a Halberd or a Lance, I find that Halberd works better when working in conjunction with rank and file while a Lance works better when charging with Dragon Princes. If you plan on fighting something more heavily armored units with good combat res, consider using the Halberd should your Dragon Princes fail to break them the first round of combat. S3 is just no good at generating res.

The other alternatives to the BSB are a Noble on a Great Eagle sporting a Reaver Bow or Star Lance. Both of these builds feature an Enchanted Shield for a lovely 2+ flying mount. The only downside that I find in this is the price invested for the risk involved. One serves as a War Machine hunter and the other serves a Chariot killer. I don't know about you guys, I don't like risking a T4 2 wound Eagle with no armor save and a T3 Elf flying across the board into hostile territory. Something about that just doesn't seem right to me. If I wanted something to fly across the field, it'll be my T6 7 wound terror-causing Dragon with a S4 breath. I’d rather keep the Reaver Bow back in my lines and have a 1+ armor save on my barded steed.

Last but not least, there’s the wannabe Mage Noble totting the Radiant Gem of Hoeth. This should only be used on a mount because you have no other way to giving yourself a 2+ armor save. The talisman makes him an Lv.1 Mage so he can choose something like Lore of Beasts and opt to go for Bear’s Anger. This also gives the army another dispel dice to use against enemy spells.

Mage

Our Mages should always be equipped for utility and support. In more Magic dominant armies, level 2 Mages assists the primary mage (either Teclis or an Archmage) by casting back-up Magic. This is why I recommend Seerstaff of Saphery as the primary item of choice because of its ability to pick spells from any given Lore. By picking the most potent and useful spells of the Lore, you automatically raised your threat level on the battlefield. Not only does he have to deal with your primary magical damage dealer, but now he has a backup mage to dispel. This draws dispel dice and thus giving you magical supremacy should he run out early. Other notable mentions for level 2 Mages consists of Jewel of Dusk (+1 PD for that mage) and Silver Wand + 2x DS/PS. For base-level Mages, they are simply used as a “scroll caddy” and therefore shouldn’t be given anything other than 2x Dispel Scrolls at any given time.
Very rarely do I see a Mage equipped with Staff of Sorcery. This gives that particular High Elf Mage a +2 to dispel, which is pretty handy at times. You have to then settle with the fact that you just spent 40 points on +1 to dispel rather than 2 more scrolls.

Korhil

Korhil is one of the best heroes in the entire Warhammer range for many reasons. For 140 points, he offers Stubborn leadership 9 to be applied to any unit he's in and 3 ASF WS6 S6 attacks with Killing Blow. He also has immunity to poison, a better armor save than Heavy armor and has all the other great White Lion characteristics. He's better than any hero-level Noble (on foot) that High Elves can build and should be taken in any game that requires one. There is absolutely no downside to taking him.

Korhil is best used in any infantry block that's required to hold. Two of these pop into my head immediately; Spearmen and Phoenix Guard. White Lions are already Stubborn on an 8 and doesn't require Korhil's support and neither does Sword Masters because of their ability to generate enough combat res via killing the enemy. Korhil's high strength and weapon skill is awesome support for low-strength rank and file troops whose sole purpose is to hold the enemy. A full rank of 20 Spears or Phoenix Guard will generate very little combat res from killing the enemy and therefore needs their ranks and numbers to keep the fight going. This is where Korhil fits in; killing and making sure the unit holds even if they lost combat.

Caradryan

For 175 points, Caradryan is one of the best heroes in the game. First, he causes Fear. This means that whatever unit he joins is automatically immune to fear and enemies being charged by or is charging the unit he's in must first pass a fear test. On top of that, he offers the entire unit MR3; giving the unit a healthy defense against magical attacks. The most important facet to Caradryan is that he's the perfect bodyguard. He can accept any challenge without fear because of Mark of Asuryan. Win or lose, he's going to inflict massive damage to anyone in direct contact with him. The fact that he has 3 WS6 S5 flaming attacks that do D3 wounds against US2+ models already makes him quite powerful in hand to hand. What really makes him amazing is the fact that should he fall (past his 4+ Ward), he immediately deals D6 wounds with no armor saves to whoever (targeting the model) killed him. This immediately makes him a treat to any Lord-class character that could double, or even triple his cost.

Caradryan is the perfect bodyguard for any unit that's willing to house Teclis. Any Lord-class character will think twice before approaching that unit because he knows that he cannot afford to be stuck in a challenge with Caradryan. In the end, there's no ideal unit to place Caradryan because he's so effective in anything. The most appropriate choice for him is in a large unit of White Lions or Phoenix Guard. The White Lion's 3+ save vs. shooting in combination with MR3 makes the unit extremely durable vs. ranged missiles. Phoenix Guard also benefit for having their Captain join the ranks because 4+ Ward and MR3 is no joke.

The Dragon Mage shouldn’t even be considered because of two reasons. The Sun Dragon’s S2 breath is worthless and the bare naked Mage on top dies too easily to randomized shooting. You’ll get better results from much cheaper mages sitting safely in your battle lines.

[HERO]

Reserved for future content.

[HERO]

Reserved for future content.

[HERO]

This is now opened for feedback and suggestions.
I plan on writing more, but I need you guys to let me know how to improve on content.

Remember, I have 4 more sections coming up:

2. Army unit selection (covers units).
3. Magic Items selection (covers our items).
4. Army construction (a few examples of my lists and detailed summary of each. Combines both unit and item explainations).
5. Strategy vs. specific armies.

[Lord Anathir]

I looks good so far

I agree with nearly all points, especially the lvl 4/lvl2 item setup (silver wand ftw) and that the dragon mage is useless.

I am curious though... your top list would be.. star dragon prince or teclis? I assume you'd go with the big friendly dragon?


If you take star dragon and battle banner do you get away with 3 dd and 2 scrolls?

cheers

[PapaElf]

Great Job. I like it, particularly the bits about, "the Prince rides the Dragon or stays home", and the "Noble is the BSB or nothing". I could not agree more. 7th edition, is what it is, and those positions are all that make sense for 7th edition High Elves.

Looking forward to the follow-on parts. I also like the way you carved out (reserved) placement for your future pieces. Kind of like "sticky" inside an ongoing thread, very clever.

[Prince_Asuryan]

Hmmm.... I terms of WAAC I think it is a good piece of work. You've gone through the most competitive builds we have to a good degree.

I would disagree with some of your comments, such as a footslogging Prince being useless. I find one very effective. However, as you said, this is WAAC, which the Star Dragon is. So I have no problem with these points, as the tactica is winning, rather than a mix with fun/effectiveness.

Good job.

[Keith]

I agree with many of the points.... As to the lord on a dragon V Teclis. I think both can have serious issues. The point with either, it to completely build the list around the lord choice. I honestly think that Teclis, overall, is the better choice. He provides you with good magic D and O without sinking any more points into it. Plus with certain spells he can just win the game. They each have some great matchups and some not so great matchups.

perhaps we should consider which armies each lord has more trouble with?

[Cyrannoc]

really nice thread, very useful, thoughtfully structured, consice and well considered, can't wait to read the next installments on unit setups etc...

Ill be checking into this one regularly.

(would be nice to hear your thoughts on VS specific enemy setups too)

[Keith]

I strongly dissagree that Eltharion is not competetive. Considering I have won with him! I think he is better on foot. Plus he allows you, with 2 other level 2's and the banner to have a very strong magic phase while not giving up LD10 in your army. Plus I find he is pretty excellent at adding some hitting power to Phoenix Guard. While is isn't a dragon or Teclis. That doesn't mean he is not competetive.

[HERO]

I am curious though... your top list would be.. star dragon prince or teclis? I assume you'd go with the big friendly dragon?

For all these questions and statements, I'll make sure to include these in my follow-up content.
As for my top build, I find my Star Dragon to be most consistent. The reason for this is the nature of magic in general. Teclis can be devastating against the enemy, don't get me wrong, but what if he doesn't do anything for 1 round of magic? I've had him miscast before, just to throw out a non-IF spell with 5 die important and for him to get forget-scrolled. This is the top reason why Teclis isn't considered better the Dragon -- In fact, one of the reasons why the last few GTs with High Elves all featured Dragons over our Teclis. Teclis, regardless of how you see it, is dependent on luck. This is because the fickle nature of magic is dependent on luck and nothing else. The Star Dragon is more consistent and as long as use him correctly, he's always doing something to the enemy.

If you take star dragon and battle banner do you get away with 3 dd and 2 scrolls?

I personally do. I find this to be the most effective build because you're always moving with your two primary damage dealers while the scroll caddy stays at home and plays with dispels. As long as the important things move and apply pressure, defensive orientated builds are not considered. Imagine you had a two Lv.2 Mages or a BSB that stayed behind the Dragon all the time. This leads to 1 thing being focused on the battlefield instead of multiple -- very bad for you because you want your Dragon to live at all costs.

I agree with many of the points.... As to the lord on a dragon V Teclis. I think both can have serious issues. The point with either, it to completely build the list around the lord choice. I honestly think that Teclis, overall, is the better choice. He provides you with good magic D and O without sinking any more points into it. Plus with certain spells he can just win the game. They each have some great matchups and some not so great matchups.

perhaps we should consider which armies each lord has more trouble with?

While I agree that the match-ups change the way we play the game, I still find the Star Dragon to be more consistent. I've won games with Teclis simply because a IF Pit of Shades kills half the opponent's deathstar units on the first turn (on Temple Guard or Hammerers for example). But in the games where Teclis constantly miscasts or gets scrolled because of poor dice rolling, I'm wasting 5 PD a turn trying to get army to go my way. This is a problem for me. I know it's kind of contradictory to say that I loathe the factor of luck in a dice-based game, but I believe a key factor to winning is reducing the amount of probable things that could happen. This way, your strategy isn't altered completely due to one fail cast, or one unlucky gamble.

I strongly dissagree that Eltharion is not competetive. Considering I have won with him! I think he is better on foot. Plus he allows you, with 2 other level 2's and the banner to have a very strong magic phase while not giving up LD10 in your army. Plus I find he is pretty excellent at adding some hitting power to Phoenix Guard. While is isn't a dragon or Teclis. That doesn't mean he is not competetive.

That's really awesome for you.. although I can't see my lists working with a 4+ armor Lord w/ no Ward saves because he's going on foot and not with Stormwing. You may disagree that Eltharion is not competitive, but I view it as such when compared to our power players; Prince and Star Dragon and Teclis. They're just better.

[Jhaantikaal]

Personally, at the highest level, my Star Dragon / BSB builds really struggle against heavy magic armies with just 3dd and 2 scrolls. Its a major problem. Kairos, forbidden lore VCs and Slann lizards easily get beast cowers through at the crucial times, leaving your dragon stranded or stuck in a big fight with just the prince attacking.

[HERO]

Save all magic dispels and scrolls for Beast Cowers and work on neutralizing the enemy ASAP. The longer you delay the better the chances he has of winning (you run out of scrolls).

Or you can just hide and let your RBT wither his army, letting him cast Beast Cowers freely until you're ready to move. Then you must stop his Beast Cowers the turn before.

[Keith]

Eltharion always has a 5+ward save... he gives it to Stormwing as well as himself, but he always has it. I am not trying to put him on the same level as either of the other two. He is not. But to dismiss him out of hand I think is silly.

I feel like Lizardmen being added to the power player list makes teclis a more viable option. I think you are relying on luck if you only bring 3DD and 2 scrolls to combat a Slann Engine list. Even when your lord is in combat, a beast cowers will make the dragon not fight... your lords 4 attacks are not going to win combat against much....

Where as, with the TG and Stegs high armor and low initiative, both Shadow and metal are rather usefull against them.

[HERO]

Eltharion always has a 5+ward save... he gives it to Stormwing as well as himself, but he always has it. I am not trying to put him on the same level as either of the other two. He is not. But to dismiss him out of hand I think is silly.

I feel like Lizardmen being added to the power player list makes teclis a more viable option. I think you are relying on luck if you only bring 3DD and 2 scrolls to combat a Slann Engine list. Even when your lord is in combat, a beast cowers will make the dragon not fight... your lords 4 attacks are not going to win combat against much....

Where as, with the TG and Stegs high armor and low initiative, both Shadow and metal are rather usefull against them.

Well, my Teclis did do decently well against my friend's 2 Engine + Slann list before. Pit of Shades on his TG really took a toll of them.. killing an average of 5 a turn and killing his Slann after 4 attempts. What's really funny is the ability to 1 shot Steggies with a lucky 4+ roll after PoS is cast.

In a 5k point game I had against the same friend, Teclis killed Mazdamundi by Pit of Shading his Steggy and SoHoeth'ing his Lord Kroak. In 1 full turn, Teclis managed to solo two of the most powerful Wizards in the history of Warhammer (arguably the only two more powerful than he).

Will edit this in a sec. I will talk about why although Teclis is insanely powerful against Lizardman, it's only decent against everything else.

[Keith]

While i understand relying on magic is fickle. so too is having only 3dd and 2 scrolls.

[HERO]

While i understand relying on magic is fickle. so too is having only 3dd and 2 scrolls.

My point is that a 620 point Star Dragon is always doing something in the turns that he's in play (unless he gets cowered.. but even so he's still applying Terror checks). A 475 Teclis could possibly miscast or get scrolled on bad dice rolls, and therefore not do anything that turn. When you rely on Magic to make things happen and nothing happens, it's just really bad times

And for Teclis against other Armies such as Dark Elves, Daemons and Vampires, I can see Caradryan, Teclis, and 2 support Mages as the ideal build. One of which has to have the Ring of Corin to fight against Dark Elves. The key here is to bait his spell dice with cheap 2-dice spells that are devastating to his army; such as Rule of Burning Iron or Curse of Arrow Attraction and then nail his Ring of Hotek. Then, Teclis can light the entire army on fire with High Magic, strip the Lord of his Pendant and Flames of the Phoenix his Shades before they reach combat.

Although I HATE the fact Ring of Corin got shafted, it's still useful when fighting something that likes Magic items.. and Dark Elves have tons of them. I will add a section on Teclis vs Star Dragon when we move onto vs. army specifics.

[L.Phantom]

Great job HERO! I'm a newbie HE player so I can't discuss anything atm because I'll start playing competitive with the HE in a month more or less.

This guide came up in the perfect time for me, I want moreeee!

I think that giving a description of all the units in the army book as you've done with the characters, magic items, etc like you've mention will make an excellent and very helpfull guide.

Posting a list of each way of playing is also a very good idea: a heavy magic, a full offensive, balance lists as an example .

Keep up the good job and here I am waiting for more!

Cheers from Spain.

[Kiwi]

Great write up - thanks for the effort look forward to reading the remainder

[lathian]

Pretty decent guide. I do have a few nitpicks however.

Many points made ignore cost as a consideration. Eltharion with stormwing, while no where near the effectiveness of a dragon mounted lord + a level 2 wizard costs about a half what that combo would cost, and allows for 3 additional heroes, should you desire. He fills a different role than either, but is competent at that role. A prince sans dragon costs less than half of what he does on a dragon, and can provide excellent second round punch to a cavalry unit if rubber lance syndrome caused them to get stuck in, or help a low strength, multi attack unit of infantry punch through a much tougher, heavier unit.

Indeed star dragons are powerful, but at there cost, are they really worth it? In the games I've seen them in, they rarely make their full points value back, or when they do, they are often dead by the end of it all. They don't contribute as strongly to army leadership, as they can't be at the front of things, and they often are around the enemies rear. This means there leadership 10 contributes less than it would have they ditched the dragon. Ultimately, you lose out on staying power, and are banking it all in killing power, which may not suite all army builds. From personal experience, a more deadly purchase is a 215 point unit of dragon princes with the banner of Ellyrion. They hit most units almost as hard, often get the flank, and cost a third what a dragon lord costs.

It's a different story with Teclis. He's enough of a powerhouse that he can reliably make his points back in kills, but the question is whether or not these are scoring kills. Many times that I've seen him, severely weaken a unit every turn, but it's often a waste polishing off weaker units with him, and you sacrifice enough hitting power that scoring points becomes less likely. Your army definitely has to pick up that slack that Teclis has. As well, Teclis alone isn't enough for a magic defense against say demons or Tzeentch or vampire counts, or magic heavy dark elves. Adding on mages with Teclis grants severely diminishing returns. Since all his dice are basically irrisitable force, that second mage will find all of his spells getting shut down, simply because the enemy can't dispel Teclis' spells. This makes any additional mages essentiall scroll caddies, leaving you with no real points to put into combat characters, making again, harder to make scoring kills.

[grantmepower]

Thanks for writing that up. I would like to add however that there is another build to a Star Dragon prince that I find effective enough. A prince with dragon armour, shield, helm of fortune, the guardian phoenix, starlance, and the talisman of loic or gem of courage works well. He gets a 3+ rerollable armour save followed by a 5+ ward. I find a 3+ rerollable superior to a 2+ that can't be rerolled. Against anything but jezzails that is...
~Grant

[HERO]

Thanks for writing that up. I would like to add however that there is another build to a Star Dragon prince that I find effective enough. A prince with dragon armour, shield, helm of fortune, the guardian phoenix, starlance, and the talisman of loic or gem of courage works well. He gets a 3+ rerollable armour save followed by a 5+ ward. I find a 3+ rerollable superior to a 2+ that can't be rerolled. Against anything but jezzails that is...
~Grant

If you can find the 12 points extra for the Dragon Armor + Shield, go for it! I just can't fit it because of point restrictions.

Pretty decent guide. I do have a few nitpicks however.

Many points made ignore cost as a consideration. Eltharion with stormwing, while no where near the effectiveness of a dragon mounted lord + a level 2 wizard costs about a half what that combo would cost, and allows for 3 additional heroes, should you desire. He fills a different role than either, but is competent at that role. A prince sans dragon costs less than half of what he does on a dragon, and can provide excellent second round punch to a cavalry unit if rubber lance syndrome caused them to get stuck in, or help a low strength, multi attack unit of infantry punch through a much tougher, heavier unit.

Indeed star dragons are powerful, but at there cost, are they really worth it? In the games I've seen them in, they rarely make their full points value back, or when they do, they are often dead by the end of it all. They don't contribute as strongly to army leadership, as they can't be at the front of things, and they often are around the enemies rear. This means there leadership 10 contributes less than it would have they ditched the dragon. Ultimately, you lose out on staying power, and are banking it all in killing power, which may not suite all army builds. From personal experience, a more deadly purchase is a 215 point unit of dragon princes with the banner of Ellyrion. They hit most units almost as hard, often get the flank, and cost a third what a dragon lord costs.

Hey man, if he works for you, it's all good. I like the fact that he has a sword that ignores armor saves even after he charges. That's all really I don't like his 4+/5+ and Stormwing's 5+ ward. T5 and 5 wounds with 5+ is a lot weaker than T6 with 7 wounds. I mean, it's really up to you. I just find that if you're going to go all out with large terror causing monster, you might as well take the full package.

It's a different story with Teclis. He's enough of a powerhouse that he can reliably make his points back in kills, but the question is whether or not these are scoring kills. Many times that I've seen him, severely weaken a unit every turn, but it's often a waste polishing off weaker units with him, and you sacrifice enough hitting power that scoring points becomes less likely. Your army definitely has to pick up that slack that Teclis has. As well, Teclis alone isn't enough for a magic defense against say demons or Tzeentch or vampire counts, or magic heavy dark elves. Adding on mages with Teclis grants severely diminishing returns. Since all his dice are basically irrisitable force, that second mage will find all of his spells getting shut down, simply because the enemy can't dispel Teclis' spells. This makes any additional mages essentiall scroll caddies, leaving you with no real points to put into combat characters, making again, harder to make scoring kills.

The reason why I always take a Lv.2 with Seerstaff is to draw out extra dispel just in case Teclis couldn't get a spell off with IF. Seerstaff allows me to take the highest damaging spells against any given enemy and cast with it. Think Beast Cowers for example. If my Lv.2 throws it out with 3-die, you think the enemy is going to let it go when he has monsters on the field? Of course not! He's going to dispel it. Now Teclis casts and he gets the spell off non-IF off 5 die. Your opponent is either going to have to scroll it, or gamble with his remaining dice (average opponent has 4-6 these days). This will repeat turn after turn and sooner or later, Teclis is either going to wreck him with IF or he's going to run out of scrolls. That's why I have the Lv.2 with my Teclis, specifically for this reason. Oh, and to offer the extra scroll because 1 scroll from Teclis isn't enough for me.

[eudaimon]

Thank you for your effort.

One request as you go forward, could you make sure you deal with the sections on army selection and opponents with a non-special character option? There is no reason to suppose that you aren't going to do that, but thought I would get my request in early.

Both my regular gaming group and the tournament scene I play in do not allow special cs.

[lathian]

Hey man, if he works for you, it's all good. I like the fact that he has a sword that ignores armor saves even after he charges. That's all really I don't like his 4+/5+ and Stormwing's 5+ ward. T5 and 5 wounds with 5+ is a lot weaker than T6 with 7 wounds. I mean, it's really up to you. I just find that if you're going to go all out with large terror causing monster, you might as well take the full package.

It is much, much weaker. It's also about half the cost. Really, It's about 450 points compared to around 800. That 350 in other things that you can take is being under sold here. That's 2 bare bones units of 6 dragon princes, for instance. (almost)

The reason why I always take a Lv.2 with Seerstaff is to draw out extra dispel just in case Teclis couldn't get a spell off with IF. Seerstaff allows me to take the highest damaging spells against any given enemy and cast with it. Think Beast Cowers for example. If my Lv.2 throws it out with 3-die, you think the enemy is going to let it go when he has monsters on the field? Of course not! He's going to dispel it. Now Teclis casts and he gets the spell off non-IF off 5 die. Your opponent is either going to have to scroll it, or gamble with his remaining dice (average opponent has 4-6 these days). This will repeat turn after turn and sooner or later, Teclis is either going to wreck him with IF or he's going to run out of scrolls. That's why I have the Lv.2 with my Teclis, specifically for this reason. Oh, and to offer the extra scroll because 1 scroll from Teclis isn't enough for me.

I'm aware of that as a purpose, though spending around 180 points to capitolize on something that isn't likely to happen with a mere 2 casting dice is a fairly high stakes investment that leaves your army with no real combat characters, or leaves it frighteningly small. Even with Teclis, magic in and of itself isn't scoring you the points here. It sets your other units up to make some points, prevents the enemy from killing you, or helps support other units. It's up the rest of the army to actually win the battle, and at this point, you have to wonder if the remaining points are up to it. Against most monster heavy, or deathstar reliant armies out there, yes, you probably have the resources to do so, but ironically, against for instance my more balanced army list, no, you don't.

[HERO]

It is much, much weaker. It's also about half the cost. Really, It's about 450 points compared to around 800. That 350 in other things that you can take is being under sold here. That's 2 bare bones units of 6 dragon princes, for instance. (almost)

Well.. my Prince on Dragon costs 620 Eltharion and Stormwing costs 490. So for 130 points more, you get a better save, Dragon Armor (important), a better Monster, and a more threatening creature. Not sure what kind of Dragon you're taking mate, but it's definitely not half the points.

I'm aware of that as a purpose, though spending around 180 points to capitolize on something that isn't likely to happen with a mere 2 casting dice is a fairly high stakes investment that leaves your army with no real combat characters, or leaves it frighteningly small. Even with Teclis, magic in and of itself isn't scoring you the points here. It sets your other units up to make some points, prevents the enemy from killing you, or helps support other units. It's up the rest of the army to actually win the battle, and at this point, you have to wonder if the remaining points are up to it. Against most monster heavy, or deathstar reliant armies out there, yes, you probably have the resources to do so, but ironically, against for instance my more balanced army list, no, you don't.

185 for a Lv.2 with Seerstaff and Scroll is a bargain for what it can do. I mean, with Teclis, Lv.2 and Banner of Sorcery, you're getting a ton of PD to play with. In the end, it's up to you, but I hate leaving home without a backup mage for my Lv.4.

[eudaimon]

A quick note on heroes not being BSB. I find a hero in a WL unit deployed 6x3 is very powerful. It will allow 9 Str 6 attacks, usually hitting on 3s, always strike first - that is 5 wounds on average at -3 against up to toughness 4 opponents. That with the rank and a banner should turn over most units, and allows the WLs to be more than a tar-pit.

Outside of WL, i agree, i don't see the point.