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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Okay, I played a game against a buddy of mine the other day. 2500pts High Elves vs Lizardmen. I decided to go with an army build I don't usually use to just give it a try.

High Elves

Lords
Prince (Blade of Leaping Gold, Talisman of Endurance, Lion Cloak, Heavy Armor, Shield)
Griffon (Swiftsense, Swooping Strike)

Heroes
Dragon Mage of Caledor (Dragon Armor, Dispel Scroll, Khaine's Ring of Fury)
Noble BSB (Star Lance, Spellshield, Dragon Armor)

Core
15 Archers
15 Archers
15 Archers
6 Silver Helms (Shields, High Helm, Standard)

Special
11 Dragon Princes of Caledor (Sword of Anti-Heroes, War Banner, FC)

Rare
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Frostheart Phoenix

Image

Lizardmen

Lords
Slann Mage-Priest (Cube of Darkness, Ironcurse Icon, Harmonic Convergence, Becalming Cogitation)
Saurus Old Blood (Light Armor, Shield, Ogre Blade, Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza)

Heroes
Skink Priest (Dispel Scroll)
Gor-Rok
Saurus Scar Veteran (Great Weapon, Light Armor)
Saurus Scar Veteran BSB (Light Armor, Extra Hand Weapon)
Oxyotl

Core
29 Saurus (FC, Spears)
10 Skink Skirmishers (Javelin+Shield)
10 Skink Skirmishers (Javelin+Shield)
10 Skink Skirmishers (Javelin+Shield)
10 Skink Skirmishers (Javelin+Shield)

Special
20 Temple Guard (Halberds, FC, Jaguar Standard, Shield)
10 Chameleon Skins
Bastilidon (Solar Engine)

Image

Magic
Dragon Mage - Piercing Bolts of Burning, Fireball
Slann - Wyssans, Savage Beast, Curse of Anraheir, Flock of Doom
Skink - Chain Lightning

Deployment

Image

Image

So my goal originally here was to lure him to face off against my shooting and put my fast movers on a flank to go around them. For some reason that escapes me at this moment I stuck to that rather then committing everyone to the left when I saw he was deploying as far away as possible. This was a less then stellar decision on my part, but I held out hope that maybe I could break through and get into his back field. I won the roll and let the Lizards go first to let them come to me.

Lizardmen Turn 1

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The Lizards advance, except for the lone skinks that fall back to try and get out of bow range. Magic phase is weak I attempt and fail to dispel chain lighting which kills a Dragon Prince, and Flock of Doom kills another.

High Elf Turn 1

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The Dragon Mage charges the closest skinks to try and break them and push on into the back field, his dragon taking 2 wounds from stand and shoot, while the Dragon Princes take up position to charge any of the Lizard units the following turn. As my mage is in combat the magic phase is uneventful. The archers all shoot up the skinks on the left flank, killing 7 of them. In combat the DM and his Sun Dragon kill 6 skinks, but he holds on double 1s, and my heart sinks.

Lizardmen Turn 2

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Skinks charge into the Dragon Mage. Magic proves uneventful as I dispel chain lightning, then the Slann fails to muster enough power to cast Wyssans on the skinks. The engine of the gods opens fire on the silver helms killing 2 of them, and they break rolling an 11. His attempts at shooting my phoenix (who is in the wrong place in the BC photo) amount to nothing. In combat the DM desperately tries to free himself by using the breath weapon, but I get double 1 and kill a single skink with it. The mage kills another, and the dragon kills 3 more, while the dragon takes a wound.

High Elf 2

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The Dragon Princes charge the skinks to try and free up my Dragon Mage. The Prince charges the skinks. Silverhelms fail to rally fleeing through my archers and Bolt Thrower. The bolt thrower panics and flees off the table. The archers manage to kill a single chameleon skink. Bolt thrower pierces through 4 ranks of TG! (Never happens). In combat the Dragon Mage and Dragon Princes crush the skinks and for some reaon I make a huge blunder and don't overrun with the Dragon Princes. This blunder ends up being momentous. I think I didn't think of it at the time because the Mage couldn't overrun. *sigh* The prince easily destroys the skinks and reforms to move onward.

Lizardmen Turn 3

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Temple Guard charge the Dragon Princes and Skinks charge the Dragon Mage. While Saurus and Chameleons move to intercept the Prince and phoenix. I use a Dispel scroll on Curse targeting my Dragon Princes, and I dispel Wyssans. The engine of the gods fails to cast. The Chameleons manage to put 2 wounds on the phoenix. The Mage and his Dragon kill 7 skinks and breaks them (not shown in BC, still working on using that program effectively), fails to run them down. Drakemaster declares a challenge that is accepted by the Temple Guard champion. Drakemaster slays him with 1 overkill. The Noble and Dragon Princes only inflict 2 wounds on the Temple Guard who inflict 6 total in return. The Dragon Princes hold on a 5 (just making it!).

High Elf Turn 3

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Silverhelms flee off the table, rolling box cars. Prince charges the chameleons who kill his Griffon out from under him on stand and shoot, so he fails his charge. Dragon mage finally gets to cast some spells, he casts piercing bolts of burning with irresistible force, killing 2 Saurus, and doing a wound to the dragon and himself. Having lost almost all his dice he tries to cast fireball and fails. The archers manage to pick of 3 chameleon skinks. The bolt thrower puts a single bolt into the Bastilidon doing 3 wounds. Drakemaster issues another challenge that is accepted by the Old Blood. Drakemaster does 1 wound, and is then cut down mercilessly. Dragon Princes and noble kill 1 more temple guard before they are wiped out to a man, and the temple guard reform.

Lizardmen Turn 4

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Temple Guard charge the Dragon Mage who flees, thankfully not off the table, and the temple guard don't catch him. The 3 remaining skinks rally (Not shown on BC, SORRY!). Slann gets off Wyssans on the Saurus, Savage Beast on his Old Blood, and Curse on the Phoenix. Chameleons shoot the prince, but his Lion Cloak protects him.

High Elf Turn 4

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Prince charges the Chameleon skinks. Phoenix charges the Bastilidon. My fireball is dispel scrolled and I fail to cast piercing bolts. My shooting proves completely ineffective (T5 Saurus, ugh). In combat the prince slays 3 skinks, takes a single wound, breaks them and he runs them down JUST falling short of overrunning in to the rear of the Saurus. The Phoenix takes out the Bastilidon and overruns to get out of Saurus charge arc.

Lizardmen Turn 5

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Temple Guard and Saurus charge the Dragon Mage. I fail to dispel Wyssans, he puts the curse on my prince, and savage beast on his old blood. The Old blood and scar vet slay the dragon and mage.

High Elf Turn 5

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The Prince tries to charge the skink priest, and fails. The phoenix maneuvers behind enemy lines. I have no magic phase, and in the shooting my archers finish off the 3 skinks.

Lizardmen Turn 6

Image

Temple Guard reform and Saurus charge the Prince. In the magic phase the Slann casts Curse on my prince with IF, he explodes killing 4 temple guard and doing a second wound to the old blood. The Prince challenges and it is accepted. Gor-Rok and the Prince square off and fail to do any damage to each other. Losing by ranks the prince flees, but the Lizardmen fail to catch him.

High Elf Turn 6

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Prince rallies (Thank Asuryan!), and the Phoenix charges the temple guard. We unleash shooting killing 4 saurus, but not enough to make them even check to rally. The phoenix takes 2 wounds, but wipes out the temple guard leaving only characters behind.

Final Result

Lizardmen - 1382/ High Elves - 1115

So disappointing, but I really have only myself to blame. I made a mistake in deployment that I thought I could remedy, but when those skinks held after the Dragon Mage tore them up I knew it was going downhill, and it did. It ended up being close, but it should not have been. Over all I enjoyed the game. And I hope you guys enjoyed the report (My first ever, still working out the kinks). Any comments or critiques are welcome.

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Last edited by Domine Nox on Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:40 pm 
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Nice report, tough luck with the Dragon Mage, seems everything went against him this game. Am curious though, why do many Archers in Core? Seems like if you have another unit of 5 Helms to help out the Dragon Mage / characters you might have a better chance of rolling through a flank (like all the Skinks in this game). Reavers with Spears could serve a similar purpose if you took multiple units of them.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:33 pm 
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I enjoyed this report - the battle really felt like it swung this way and that!

Out of curiosity, what's the skull of?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:38 pm 
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Nice report!

i'm REALLY surprised that he deployed his chameleons in his deployment zone.... you pay double for chameleons to be scouts.... hahah

Couple of other notes:
1. War machines don't flee, just can't fire (hides under the machine)
2. in the end, it was quite close and could have gone either way. It was lucky that the lizards didn't catch on all the combat breaks. But it looked like fun!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:09 am 
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Thanks for all the positive feedback guys. Still getting used to Battle Chronicler.

Axiem wrote:
Am curious though, why do many Archers in Core? Seems like if you have another unit of 5 Helms to help out the Dragon Mage / characters you might have a better chance of rolling through a flank (like all the Skinks in this game).


My intial thoughts were to use all the shooting to try and pepper him down while I rolled around the flanks. His opposite corner deployment changed that plan, and I didn't adapt my deployment well enough. More silver helms might have been a decent idea. My initial list had spearmen in it but I felt they would be nothing but a speed bump, so switched them out.

Ferny wrote:
Out of curiosity, what's the skull of?


Not really sure. :lol: It's from my FLGS, I think it's fake, but it's a cat of some kind. In the warhammer world it would be a dragon eating cat.

NexS wrote:
i'm REALLY surprised that he deployed his chameleons in his deployment zone.... you pay double for chameleons to be scouts.... hahah


Yeah, he wanted to scout, but when I left nothing vulnerable he put them in his zone because he was worried that my phoenix or dragon mage would just pounce on them.

NexS wrote:
1. War machines don't flee, just can't fire (hides under the machine)


Ah, that's my bad then, that might have changed at least a little bit of the battle since my other bolt thrower was doing a stellar job with multi-rank piercing and wounding monsters.

NexS wrote:
2. in the end, it was quite close and could have gone either way. It was lucky that the lizards didn't catch on all the combat breaks. But it looked like fun!!


It was fun. I kept getting flabergasted everytime my Dragon Mage ended up in yet another combat. Them not catching my Prince was big, if they had caught him in that last combat it would have swung points way in the Lizardmen favor. I still can't get over just how hard Temple Guard and Saurus are.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:26 am 
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Hi Domine,
nice battle report! After reading your report i have the feeling that you didn't fully exploit your mobility. You spread your characters & Monsters, while a combined charge of them could wreak havoc in the lizards.
I believe you could have used the SH or Dragon Princes as hard cover for your fliers. If you charge with the Dragon Mage, phoenix or Griffon from behind them, he gets an additional -2 cover, so this usually means 7+ to hit (no poison then). Clear the skinks and then you can combo charge the big blocks

In terms of list design, I would have gone for 2 units of SH. In my opinion it is best to deal with lizards with speed& armour than with arrows. Most of them have either R4+ or skinks are hard to hit, so archers are not the best performers. Also i think you needed some more redirectors (reavers/eagles) to park them in front of the big blocks while dealing with chaff

Looking forward your next report!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:41 am 
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Domine Nox wrote:
Yeah, he wanted to scout, but when I left nothing vulnerable he put them in his zone because he was worried that my phoenix or dragon mage would just pounce on them.

I'd have either put them out of arc, or at long distace for a charge (natural 10-12 to make the distance). chamos as BS4, so would have 20 shots with 6's to hit w/poison. Oxyotl poisons on 5+ and can snipe. With all that in mind, frosty/dragon may not even make it to combat!

Quote:
Ah, that's my bad then, that might have changed at least a little bit of the battle since my other bolt thrower was doing a stellar job with multi-rank piercing and wounding monsters.

If nothing else, that's 70 VP he wouldn't have gotten!

Quote:
It was fun. I kept getting flabergasted everytime my Dragon Mage ended up in yet another combat. Them not catching my Prince was big, if they had caught him in that last combat it would have swung points way in the Lizardmen favor. I still can't get over just how hard Temple Guard and Saurus are.

They're not as tough as some people seem to think. saurus are base I1 (I2 for special units), so elves are hitting on 3's and re-rolling everything. *IF* there are any left, they have a good output vs. S3 T3, but anything higher is rapesville for the poor old saurus. They're only good for one round of combat - if they don't win 1st round then they generally don't make it through a second... This is my dilemma with them - while temple guard are 14 points each, they can't stand up to many other elite troops without being buffed or the enemy being hexed.
Hence - Slann.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:58 am 
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Nice report, and I think they will get better quickly with more battles!

I don't think the Dragon Mage is as big a disaster as you're making it out to be. Imagine if you'd broken those Skinks; what happens next turn? You have 30 poison shots coming your way. That means you might've lost the Dragon or the Mage that turn, instead of eating more Skinks- and that's not counting the potential magic zappiness that might've come his way too. Using your breath weapon the next phase was a smart move, you were unfortunate to roll 1-1 for hits, otherwise you'd have probably broken both units, and then been free. Don't let yourself get disillusioned when you fail to break the enemy on a great charge- it's often much better to do it in the enemy's turn, then you're free to pick your own charge next turn.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:08 am 
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NexS wrote:
They're not as tough as some people seem to think. saurus are base I1 (I2 for special units), so elves are hitting on 3's and re-rolling everything. *IF* there are any left, they have a good output vs. S3 T3, but anything higher is rapesville for the poor old saurus. They're only good for one round of combat - if they don't win 1st round then they generally don't make it through a second... This is my dilemma with them - while temple guard are 14 points each, they can't stand up to many other elite troops without being buffed or the enemy being hexed.


I was hitting on 3's and re-rolling everything, but when I'm wounding on 5's and he's then got a 3+ save it makes it an uphill battle. Or wait I guess it probably should have been a 4+ save since they can't use their shields in combat... still 5's to wound, 4+ save is not fun regardless of my to hit.

NexS wrote:
I'd have either put them out of arc, or at long distace for a charge (natural 10-12 to make the distance). chamos as BS4, so would have 20 shots with 6's to hit w/poison. Oxyotl poisons on 5+ and can snipe. With all that in mind, frosty/dragon may not even make it to combat!


Very true since they ripped my Prince's griffon out from under him.

Syleth wrote:
After reading your report i have the feeling that you didn't fully exploit your mobility. You spread your characters & Monsters, while a combined charge of them could wreak havoc in the lizards.
I believe you could have used the SH or Dragon Princes as hard cover for your fliers. If you charge with the Dragon Mage, phoenix or Griffon from behind them, he gets an additional -2 cover, so this usually means 7+ to hit (no poison then). Clear the skinks and then you can combo charge the big blocks

In terms of list design, I would have gone for 2 units of SH. In my opinion it is best to deal with lizards with speed& armour than with arrows. Most of them have either R4+ or skinks are hard to hit, so archers are not the best performers. Also i think you needed some more redirectors (reavers/eagles) to park them in front of the big blocks while dealing with chaff


Yeah. I orignally intended to put my characters and monsters together, but then as his deployment unfolded I ended up spreading out which was a bad move. Yep seeing the uphill battle the archers had I agree they were suboptimal. This is not my usual list and will probably go back to something more standard for me next time.

Stormie wrote:
I don't think the Dragon Mage is as big a disaster as you're making it out to be. Imagine if you'd broken those Skinks; what happens next turn? You have 30 poison shots coming your way.


This is true, I was just so set on trying to break through to try and use my magic. And I have seen the nastiness that is poison. *shudder*

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:39 am 
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Domine Nox wrote:
I was hitting on 3's and re-rolling everything, but when I'm wounding on 5's and he's then got a 3+ save it makes it an uphill battle. Or wait I guess it probably should have been a 4+ save since they can't use their shields in combat... still 5's to wound, 4+ save is not fun regardless of my to hit.

I guess you'd be looking for a combocharge SH+griffon and DPrinces+frosty, just in case the initial onslaught didn't see them running, you've got some high strength for follow up rounds!

Quote:
This is true, I was just so set on trying to break through to try and use my magic. And I have seen the nastiness that is poison. *shudder*

but... but.... but... dragon! I've always seen the dragon mage to be nothing but an excuse to field a dragon using Hero points! haha

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:01 am 
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Great report Nox. I enjoy reports a lot more when they have photos of the actual battle (looks more real and believable) and yours turned out really good. I like your list, it looks like it would be fun to use? I know you didn't get to use your prince a lot in this game but it will be good to see him work in future games.

I was really only going to add what NexS said about the RBT fleeing but that was all cleared up. keep up the great work =D>

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:16 pm 
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That's a good first report, thanks for posting it!
The major point I'd look at improving is the size of the bases displayed, for the monsters (Phoenix, Dragon Mage, Griffon). You can parameter those when creating the unit in BC, and it would really help tracking the evolution of the game!

As for the game itself, you tracked what caused your issues: deployment and battle plan. If you look at it, you can notice that no LM unit ever came close to the middle line, even though you had the range advantage! That's something you should have used for you, even after deployment. No need to charge so early with any unit, since the only long distance damage from your opponent was Chain Lightning! (and Flock of Doom, but you can let this one pass to dispel the other).
And don't forget that archers are actually good in CC against all the chaff you opponent had! They murder skinks in CC, and they were not likely to be shot due to other targets.

Also, another rule to remember: the dragon mage always generates Flaming Sword of Rhuin as his first spell!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:35 pm 
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Iluvatar wrote:
Also, another rule to remember: the dragon mage always generates Flaming Sword of Rhuin as his first spell


I know he does. I rolled up piercing bolts of burning so opted to turn flaming sword to fireball to try and take advantage of the +d3 to cast.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Ah, that's another case of imprecise rule-writing I guess!
I've always thought this meant that the Mage rolled no dice and got Flaming Sword if he's level 1, and only rolled 1 dice for his second spell if he's level 2 (with that second spell possibly swapped to Fireball, but not Flaming Sword).
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:56 am 
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Nice to see a dragon mage getting some use. I'm looking forward to getting mine out for a walk (read built) once I get some reavers converted.

Should one of the spells not have been Rhuins?

Tying that with the Gem of Sunfire would give a good boost in close combat along with a blast of dragon breath.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:49 am 
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Taentagel wrote:
Should one of the spells not have been Rhuins?


The way I read it is the Dragon Mage automatically gets Rhuins as his first spell without rolling. So he only rolls once as a level 2, but he can trade either spell for the signature.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:04 am 
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I'd have thought so too, but just read the BRB now..
".. a wizard can always choose to substitute one of the spells he rolls with the signature spell of a lore..."
Being that you didn't roll for the spell, maybe you don't get to substitute it? A bit ambiguous..

If you were playing against me I wouldn't mind either way, but some places may mind :/

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:11 am 
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And the Dragon Mage's rule says "The first spell generated is always" generated is synonymous with rolled for.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:18 am 
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Sweet, so doesn't say "instead of rolling for" ?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:46 am 
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NexS wrote:
Sweet, so doesn't say "instead of rolling for" ?


Nope, just says "First Generated"

Well since I started this Battle Report Log I'll just make it on going.

WARNING! There will be 40k battle reports and lists in this thread as well! I apologize if that offends the Fantasy only fiends.

This Saturday I will be playing, ideally, 2 games of 40k both 1850pts. I will be most likely using 2 different armies. They are as follows.

HQ
Spirit Seer (Spear of Teuthlas, Wraithforge Stone)
Wraithseer (D-Cannon)

Troops
5 Wraithguard (D-Scythes)
Wave Serpent (TL Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines, Holo-Field)
10 Wraithblades (Ghost Ax, Forceshield)

Fast Attack
Crimson Hunter (Exarch)

Heavy Support
Wraithlord (Bright Lance, Scatter Laser, Flamerx2, Ghost Glaive)
Wraithlord (Starcannon, Scatter Laser, Flamerx2, Ghost Glaive)
Wraithknight (Suncannon, Scatter Laser, Scatter Shield)


HQ
Keeper of Secrets (Greater Reward, Exalted Reward, Psy 2)
Masque

Elite
4 Fiends of Slaanesh

Troops
14 Daemonettes of Slaanesh (Icon, Alluress)
13 Daemonettes of Slaanesh (Instrument)
13 Daemonettes of Slaanesh

Fast Attack
10 Seekers of Slaanesh (Rapturous Standard, Heartseeker w/ Greater Reward)

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder of Slaanesh (Baleful Torrent, Warpsword)
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh (Greater Reward x2, Wings, Psy 3)
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh (Greater Reward, Exalted Reward, Wings, Psy 3)

It should be Eldar vs Grey Knights, and Daemons vs Tau, but that may switch. Comments are welcome.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:52 am 
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As a person who isn't really interested in 40k, I do like the eldar models :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:55 am 
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NexS wrote:
As a person who isn't really interested in 40k, I do like the eldar models :)


I can just hope my report will end up not boring you or driving you away. And unlike the last report most of the models will be painted. So, at the least eye candy!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:40 am 
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All right, 40k Battle Report incoming! Eldar vs. Tau.

My Army - Craftworld Altansar

HQ
Spiritseer (Spear of Teuthlas, Wraithforge Stone) Psy Powers [Voice of Twilight, Destructor/Renewer]
Wraithseer (D-Cannon)

Troop
5 Wraithguard (D-Scythes)
10 Wraithblades (Ghost Ax, Force Shield)
Wave Serpent (TL Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines, Holofield)

Fast Attack
Crimson Hunter (Exarch)

Heavy Support
Wraithlord (Bright Lance, Scatterlaser, Ghost Glaive, Flamerx2)
Wraithlord (Starcannon, Scatterlaser, Ghost Glaive, Flamerx2)
Wraithknight (Scatterlaser, Suncannon, Scattershield)

Image

Tau List

HQ
Commander (Missile Pod, Multi-Tracker, Neuroweb System Jammer, Iridium Battle Suit)

Elite
Riptide (Ion Accelerator, TL Smart Missile System)

Troop
15 Kroot
15 Kroot
15 Kroot
15 Kroot
12 Fire Warriors
12 Fire Warriors
Devilfish (Gun Drones x2)
Devilfish (Gun Drones x2)

Fast Attack
4 Pathfinders
4 Pathfinders
3 Piranha (Fusion Blaster x3, Seeker Missile x2)

Heavy Support
3 Broadsides (Shield Drone x3)
Hammerhead
3 Sniper Drones

Image

So those were the forces and thus came deployment. I deployed first attempting to limit fire from the other side of the board while still giving my ranged weapons easy maneuverability to firing positions. He obviously opted to put the greatest possible distance between us (typical Tau).

Image

Image

_________________
Nox's Painting/Modelling Log

Nox's Battle Report Log


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