HE MSU V. Skaven-complete

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Hinge
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HE MSU V. Skaven-complete

#1 Post by Hinge »

With reports coming in of a large army approaching, Loremaster Faichon quickly shook his force out into its battle array and waited patiently. The Loremaster did not wait long, for a doomful toll of a bell could be heard approaching. A bell whose reverberations not only created a sense of foreboding and hopelessness, but also reached Faichon’s soul. Soon, a teeming horde of vile rat like creatures crested the ridge, pushing a great contraption with them. There seemed to be no end to the skittering horde and the children of Uthalian prepared to sell their lives dearly.

Games have been few and far between lately but I was able to get a game in over the weekend against Skaven.

Skaven:
Grey Seer, Screaming Bell, Dispel Scroll, Skalm, Dragon Bane Gem
Chieften, BSB, Charmed Shield, Opal Amulet, Ruby Ring
Warplock Eng, L2, Doom Rocket, Warp Energy Condenser,
4 x Warplock Eng
40 Clan Rats, FC, Shields
10 Storm Vermin, Mus, Std, Storm Banner
29 Giant Rats + 6 Packmasters
5 Giant Rats + packmaster
5 Giant Rats + Packmaster
2 x 49 slaves, shields, Mus, champ
40 slaves, shields, mus, champ
2 x 10 Gutter Runners
Hellpit, magic spikes
Warp Lightning Cannon
Plague Catapult


I changed my list slightly from last game.
High Elves

Loremaster, Book, ToP
Noble, BSB, Reaver Bow, Halberd, Pot of St
2 x 15 Archers, Mus, Std
6 Silverhlem, FC
2 x 5 Reavers, Spear, Bow, Mus
6 Dragon Princes, FC, Banner of Eternal Flame
6 Swordmasters
12 White Lions, Mus, Std, Banner of Swiftness
2 x 1 Tiranoc Chariots
5 Shadow Warriors
2 Eagle Claws
2 x5 Sisters
Frost Phoenix
2 x 1 Great Eagle

I approached this confrontation without much confidence. That Skaven army is tough. First, just scoring points off the army will be a chore. Two rat darts and four 15 point engineers provides lots of redirection and will make it tough to get multiple charges off. The pure number of bodies means every combat will be protracted and I risk getting worn down.

Second is magic. Dreaded 13th is a unit killer, but he also ended up with Scorch. These are the two spells I have to stop, and let everything else through.

Third, shooting. His Gutter Runners alone could take down half my army if I am not careful. Add in the Doom Rocket and I may not have much left to engage with.

I will work on the Deployment and first couple of turns this evening.
Last edited by Hinge on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hinge
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven Through Turn 2

#2 Post by Hinge »

Deployment

My only real deployment consideration was to be able to put as many flaming units opposite the ABomb as I could. I kept the Frost Phoenix back figuring to minimize the amount of gutter runner shots and figuring he was going to ground it with the Storm Banner anyways.
Please note the Silver helms are missing in this shot. They are deployed right of the White Lions and will pop up on the next shot

Image

Grey Seer-Skitter Leap, Scorch, Bless with Filth, Dreaded 13th.
Warlock Eng – Warp Lightning, Death Frenzy

Elves get first Turn 1

Image



Waving their banner back and forth, the Storm Vermin call on a storm that grounds the Eagles and Phoenix and will make shooting a challenge.

The elves advance cautiously. The Lore Masters spells are stopped rather easily by the capering, grey clad figure on the bell. In frustration, the Loremaster orders all units that can to unload on the Abomb. The only wound that seem to effect it is a well placed shot from the BSB. However, the Elliyreans prove to be able bowman in even the most extreme conditions. 2 gutter runners fall from the unit cowering behind some rocks while 3 fall on the left to the combined shots of the Reavers and Shadow Warriors.

Skaven Turn 1

Image

The storm continues to rage. The Rats advance slowly. The Loremaster easily fends off the Grey Seers magic though the Bell’s tolling heartens all the Skaven. Additionally, the skaven shooting proves wholly abysmal, with only a single Reaver falling in each unit.

Helf Turn 2

Image

The storm clears and the BSB downs a magical draught in preparation of destroying the hideous creature on the hill. With a thunder of hooves and chariot wheels, the High elves spring forward, eager to come to grips with the hordes of rats. Unfortunately the Gutter Runners hiding behind the rocks proves to be deadly accurate and destroy a unit of Reavers as they clear the forest.

The Lore Master is able to curse the large Giant Rat unit, getting both Ice Shard Blizzard and lowering their WS to 1.

In combat, the Gutter Runners in the forest on the left take fearsome casualties but stand resolute. Meanwhile, the Gutter Runners on the right prove to be the Skaven elite, tearing an irreplaceable Silver Helm out of his saddle for the cost of two of their own and hold.

The Sisters of Averlorn, take careful aim and wound the Abomb twice. Both Eagle Claws ready bolts but the storm seems to be have rendered the machines useless (for the second turn in a row, I rolled 1’s for the to hit attempts on both RBTs). The BSB and his unit are able to finish the creature off. The rest of the shooting goes into some slaves.
The second Tiranoc tears into the Giant Rats with a thunderous crash, rats and packmasters go flying but there are so many, they refuse to run. The Swordmasters easily dispatch the rats sent out to distract them and over run into the large unit of slave.

Skaven Turn 2

Image

A slave unit charge a blocking eagle.

The Bell tolls once again and the Lore Master is forced to hold back a scorch. Unfortunately another Scorch gets through and more than half the White Lions perish.
During Shooting, one of the Warlocks cackles as he prepares his infernal contraption. With a hiss then boom, the remaining White Lions perish.
The WLC does not even singe the Frost Phoenix's feathers while the plague catapult kills 2 DP.
A lone surviving Gutter Runner continues to hold the left flank while the Silver Helms and other Gutter Runner take a union mandated smoke break and chat about…well I have no clue other then they failed to wound each other. The Eagle Breaks but gets away while the Swordmasters lay about themselves with out taking any casualties.
Last edited by Hinge on Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Hinge
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-Intro

#3 Post by Hinge »

Helf Turn 3

Image

Please note that I had forgotten to indicate that the Screaming Bell unit had moved sideways to deny the frost Phoenix an opportunity to charge the Bell while the Engineer pooped out to keep LOS for Warp Lightning and the Doom Rocket.

The Dragon Princes charge the Giant Rat Unit to assist the Chariot. The Frost Phoenix figures that the best place may be in combat and charge the flank of some slaves. The plan is to avoid killing the Engineer so that the Skaven cannot shoot into the combat.

Magic is ineffective, however shooting is as I do 3 wounds to the bell and a single wound to the Seer.
Combat sees the last remaining Gutter Runner killed in the woods. The other Gutter Runners are broken and run down, however two of the Silver Helm die as their horses trip in the stony ground, leaving 2 left. Three elite Swordmasters go down but they manage to hold. The other combats are won but the Skaven hold with the slaves turning to face the Phoenix.

Skaven Turn 3

Image

The Bell moves back around and starts to close and the Storm Vermin turn around to go after the Eagle.
The Grey Seer summons a powerful spell and to the horror of the nearby warmachine crews, the BSB and his unit are turned into rats!
The Silver Helm champ issues a challenge hoping to entice the Engineer to step up. So many Skaven players want the engineer to die so they can shoot/cast into a combat the slave unit is in they forget the bonus points for winning an Underdog challenge. Alas, my opponent accepted with the slave champ. The elves win all the combats and once again hold, with the Giant Rats needing and making a break test on a 5

Helf Turn 4


Image

The Eagles and Sisters go into the Slave unit to help the Phoenix, figuring the -1 to St should help. The Archers left the building in an attempt to open the distance between themselves and the Bell.

Shooting and Fireball panics the newly created Clan Rat Unit who runs into the charge path of the Rat Dart.

The Silver Helms break and are run down. Slave unit 1 takes horrendous casualties but holds. Two of the swordmasters fall and the final one breaks and is run down, allowing the Slave unit to overrun. The big Giant Rat unit is killed to a rat and the Princes turn to face the main event. The Skaven warmachines are destroyed and the eagle runs off the board to avoid the Storm Vermin.

Skaven Turn 4

Image

The Bell continues to advance forward. The newly formed clan rat unit continues to run.

The Seer conjures another mighty spell and the Loremaster and his unit are turned into rats (IF!), 8 clan rats pushing the bell pay the price. Many The Sisters are killed but Slave unit 1 continues to get smaller.

Helf Turn 5

Image

A chariot makes a long charge with the DPs into the flank of Slave unit 2.
Shooting sees the RBTs scare off another newly created Clan rat unit and the Shadow warriors drop solo engineer running around.
Slave unit 2 takes a punishment but holds, though the chariot is no longer in contact and over runs into the bell unit. Despite the diagram, he is in the flank. With a single rank to maintain steadfast, Slave unit 1 continues to hold.

Skaven Turn 5

Image

Slave unit 3 charges the rear of the phoenix and the rat dart charges the RBT.
In an amazing turn of events, I shut down the skaven magic phase despite no caster, though the Bell inspires all the rat units to extra attacks.

The chariot crashes into the Bell unit with a furious impact. I direct all my attacks at the L2 Engineer but only do a single wound. I win combat and continue to pin Bell unit in place. If I can free up the princes, I got a shot at an assassination run. Alas, it was not to be, a single rank of slaves foils my plans and makes its steadfast 7 check. Slave unit 1 finally goes down. Throughout the drawn out combat, the phoenix has taken 4 wounds and I am starting to worry about it dying itself. The RBT goes down.

Helf Turn 6

Image

The second chariot charges in to finish off the slaves.

The surviving RBT panics the Rat Dart away.

The chariot engaged with the bell unit finishes off the L2 Engineer but breaks and is run down. Slave unit 3 puts a wound on the Phoenix and wins combat but the ancient creature holds.

Skaven Turn 6

Image

The overrun puts the bell in the perfect position to crash into the shadow warriors, they do so and crush them.

A scorch leaves a single Sister alive.

The frost Phoenix has a scare as the slaves put two wounds on him, but he is able to save them both. He directs all his attacks at the Engineer but fails to kill him. Fortunaley a big thunder stomp wins him the combat. With no BSB or general close by I am hoping for a failed break test, but is not to be (If I had killed the engineer however…).


We count it up and the Skaven are up 495 points.

Post op next.
Last edited by Hinge on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-Finished

#4 Post by Hinge »

What a bloody game. Maybe not unit wise but certainly models. Since I was literally killing units down to the last rat, my opponents dead pile was impressive.

What can I say, Dreaded 13th did me in. The first he rolled very high and I was unable to stop it and the second was IF. I do recognize that my opponents shooting was rather lack luster, so I got lucky there. I think he should have ambushed one of the Gutter runner units. Poor shooting was offset by some excellent steadfast break check on his part, allowing a combat to continue for a round longer than it should have. This always seemed to happen on his turn, locking up my units on my turn.

My big mistake was on turn 3. My opponent had turned his bell unit so the frost phoenix could not come into contact with the bell. We determined that I could not thunder stomp the Bell unit since it became unique with its inclusion (is this right?), so sending him in would likely lead to me breaking if I whiff. This is what led me to decide to flank charge the slave unit, figuring my good luck with the WLC was going to end soon.

However, I could have flown up and parked an inch away. With the two warmachines close (and the Shadow Warriors/eagle also closing) I could have pinned the Bell unit in the corner. I could have kept my units out of 24” and hope my shooting could down the general. If the slave units would have pushed the issue, they would have quickly gotten out of IP/BSB range. How long I could have kept him boxed in I don’t know. Even if I lose the phoenix eventually, if it led to my general surviving, I would be ahead on points. I certainly could have started to back pedal earlier, but my shooting was on fire and I really wanted to knock the grey seer off.

A minor error was I should have separated the General from the archer unit when I left the house. Sure, he would have turned the solo general into a rat, but the archers would have survived to get away.

Hope you enjoyed.

Hinge
Last edited by Hinge on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-Intro

#5 Post by Iluvatar »

Looking forward to the rest of this report. Skaven are amongst my most frequent opponents, but even then I can't help being impressed with the opposition of numbers. Impressive!
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-complete

#6 Post by GhostWarrior »

Good job at giving that list a run for its money.

Definitely one of the hardest match-ups for me (and I feel, Elves in general) to counter. It feels like it depends too much on how my opponent rolls, and little on how I roll (example: how lopsided would the game have been if the storm banner had stayed up through turns 3, 4, or 5?)

I guess I'm just bitter... I've lost twice in tournament games in turn 1 to IF'ing Plagues that bounced through every important unit in the army. #-o
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-complete

#7 Post by Stormie »

Good try, but if you're playing in an environment that allows people to 6-dice spells like Dreaded 13th, without any protection to characters in units, and then you take small sized units, then you're just asking for this to happen, especially if you don't take a scroll. But you did well to only lose by 500 points! And a nice read with the pictures, thanks :)
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-complete

#8 Post by Eltherion »

Excellent report and well done vs. a tough army.

One trick I am yet to try but hope to in an upcoming tournament is suicide charging a small cavalry unit into the Grey Seer (Screaming Bell) front and allocating as many attacks as possible on the Grey Seer hopefully killing the Seer in 1 round of combat. This removes the Skaven Magic phase (Dreaded 13th) hopefully on turn 1 or 2 if the Skaven player isn't expecting it.

Just one thing about the color choice for the HE units its hard to read the white on the light blue background. Maybe a darker blue background or black lettering would make it easier to read the units.
2008-2013 Wins:Draws:Losses
7th Ed High Elves 18 : 9 : 4 Bargle Con I, Best General, 3rd Overall
New High Elf Book 16 : 1 : 5 Bargle Con II, 2nd Overall, Conviction 2nd Overall & Best Sportsman

MSU List: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=48650
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-complete

#9 Post by Hinge »

@Eltherion-

It is tough to get the charge against the bell around here. The local players park enough re-directors and will turn their bell sideways to avoid giving you that charge. Damn 360 casting los!. I have since found out I could thunder stomp the bells unit. With out a doubt I would have charge the phoenix in knowing this.

I agree on the colors. Even changing the lettering to black would have worked. I will do so for the next report.

Hinge
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-complete

#10 Post by Eltherion »

Ye a cunning rat player will prevent the bell being charged front on sneaky lil ratties.
2008-2013 Wins:Draws:Losses
7th Ed High Elves 18 : 9 : 4 Bargle Con I, Best General, 3rd Overall
New High Elf Book 16 : 1 : 5 Bargle Con II, 2nd Overall, Conviction 2nd Overall & Best Sportsman

MSU List: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=48650
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-complete

#11 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Hinge,

Thanks a lot for the fantastic report! You did great and I was really impressed by the very aggressive approach and all these charges that seemed to come out of nowhere.

There were some moments where Skaven player rolled well for his break tests and tied a few of your units longer than expected. Of course dreaded 13 is rightly dreaded. However, I have an impression that your opponents approach was to deny you the opportunity to pin down his main unit with his throw away rats and keep casting nasty spells as well as adding bonus from the Bell itself. It is by no means a personal accusation towards your opponent. He did what Skaven are good for. I simply find it a little disheartening to maneuver like hell and get these fantastic combats thanks to the superior maneuverability and in the end have it all denied by 6-dice spells like dreaded 13.

It might be a good idea to keep a single regiment with characters away from the grey seer. But some kind of assassination would be a good plan too. I was wondering, you got a few wounds on the bell and grey seer via shooting. Did you consider targeting it again in the subsequent turns?

It was a great game though and I will be coming back to it many times as so much has happened that it is hard to get a big picture after just one reading. :)

Thanks a lot for the report and hopefully you will have a proper rematch too!

Cheers!
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Hinge
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-complete

#12 Post by Hinge »

Sword master-

Your insights are always welcome.

Without a doubt my opponents build is centered around a point denial strategy. I see this with many Skaven builds and going in I figured it would be nearly impossible for me to score off the Bell and unit, making the goal a minor win.

Without a doubt, I should have pulled one/both of the Archer units back earlier. Also, once the Skaven shooting had been dealt with, jumping the characters out of the units was an option. It’s always a trade off though, since the Archers shooting and BSB are integral to the functioning of the army and will keep them in range of the dreaded 13th. Lack of a scroll also bit me in the butt, as the first Dreaded was not cast with IF. This is becoming a bit of a theme as we will see in my next battle.

As far as shooting the bell. This is also tough since you need to kill both the Seer and the Bell to score points. Between Skalm, 4+ ward , and randomization, it seems likely that I will kill the bell first, dropping the Seer safely into the clan rat unit. Not that it is worth trying but I felt the Abomb was a higher priority target. I did shoot at the Bell for two rounds, the first was pretty successful while the second failed to do any wounds. After that, my missile troops were busy fending off the rats that kept popping up nearby.

Hinge
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Re: HE MSU V. Skaven-complete

#13 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Hinge,

Indeed, shooting at the bell only depletes the resources and may result in destroying the bell while the seer is relatively safe. One could argue, of course, that it is still good as the unit is not unbreakable anymore and grey seer cannot cast spells in 360 degrees. Which limits his possibilities (like moving the regiment sideways and still being able to cast spells).

The idea about running characters solo as soon as the war machines are silenced is a good one, even at a cost of shooting efficiency I think. Definitely something to keep in mind.

Well, it was still a close game and with some lessons learned as well as some ideas how to proceed in order to minimize the threat of dreaded 13 in particular should help in a re-match or any future encounter.

Cheers!
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