The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 5 up 24.11

This forum is for the posting of reports of your famous victories and crushing defeats. It is for both single battle reports and for ongoing army diaries/blogs.

Moderators: The Heralds, The Loremasters

Message
Author
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 5 up 24.11

#1 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Greetings!

I had a great weekend at Good Games in Canberra meeting new people as well as having some rematches from CanCon during 2 days/5 games tournament. The Hammer of Dave was a 2400 points event with simple battle lines scenarios. Apart from the battle points some composition points were awarded prior to the tournament. Each army was given points from 0 to 5 (with half points possible) per game at the end of the event. For details about the rules pack check out this link: Link

There were 16 players which is quite good for a local tournament. At least 2 players came from Sydney too! Following armies were present:

Empire 2
Lizardmen 2
Vampire Counts 2
Bretts 2
Warriors of chaos 3
Dwarves 1
High elves 1
Dark elves 1
Tomb kings 1
Daemons of Chaos 1

I played against Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Daemons, Vampires and Bretonnians (in that order). I will add reports as soon as possible, this time with pictures too!

Stay tuned!

Cheers! :)
Last edited by Swordmaster of Hoeth on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
User avatar
~Milliardo~
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:50 pm
Location: Tor Skylla, Saraeluii Mountains

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament

#2 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

Will they be in this thread or your other thread? Should I subscribe to this thread too? :3
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament

#3 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

I will post them all in this thread for convenience :)
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
User avatar
Elessehta of Yvresse
Well played Sir
Posts: 7811
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament

#4 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

I was wondering why you weren't around, 16 sounds small, but Canberra isn't huge.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
Iluvatar
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:46 pm

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament

#5 Post by Iluvatar »

5 new reports on the way, that's good news! :)
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament

#6 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

True, 16 is a small group for a tournament. There were even reinforcements from Sydney, as at least 2 players came from there. On the other hand Good Games store had space only for 20 players as at the same time there was a Flames of War tournament taking place.

I am half way through the diagrams for game 1. Should finish them today in the evening and will try to write it up. If not, it will be ready on Wednesday.

As a teaser I can say I faced a Dark Elf army with usual suspects. Hydra, unkillable Dreadlord, Black Guard, horde of Corsairs, level 4 with Shadow and Dagger, Cauldron etc. where all there. :)

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament

#7 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Greetings!

In my first game I faced Simon and his Dark Elves. Little did I know what kind of caliber of a player I am facing. Only later I have found out that Simon is actually the highest ranking player in NSW and will participate in this year Masters (a tournament for the highest ranking players in Australia, participation is granted by invitation only). He was invited to join ETC team for 2013 too. He decided to have a go at a small tournament in Canberra and was one of the two players who came from Sydney to do so. However, seeing his army list and playing against vile Druchii I knew was up to a challenge anyway.

Army Lists and pre-battle considerations

After 3 tournaments with composition scores in Oz I have noticed that in general players just take the armies they like. They are either hard but players aim at massacring the opponents or the lists are softer but the players can still be very tough opponents and can count on a little extra leverage for the overall scoring. It seemed that Simon prefers to crash his enemies as suits Druchii merciless warriors and make up for lower comp score with his outstanding results from battles. At least it was the case with this army :)

Dark Elves - Army List

Dreadlord on Dark Steed, Sea Dragon Cloak, Blood Armor, Pendant of Kaleth, Crown of Command, Biting Blade
Supreme Sorceress, level 4, Sacrificial Dagger, Talisman of Preservation - Lore of Shadow
Death Hag BSB, Cauldron of Blood
Sorceress, level 2, Dispel Scroll - Lore of Fire
Assassin

30 Corsairs, extra hand weapon, Full Command Sea Serpent Standard
25 Warriors, Full Command
10 Crossbowmen

20 Black Guard
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Shades

Hydra

This army is very dangerous on its own but with eternal hatred all over the place it was even more so. With sheer volume of the attacks, re-rolls to hits every round of combat and numbers to step in big regiments could chew through my small units if given the chance to fight one on one. Powerful magic, with ability to generate extra dice constantly meant I was to face quite relentless magic phase. Unkillable dreadlord was a danger too, easily able to hold against almost anything I could throw at him and if close to BSB it would have been very difficult to break him with some lucky static combat result. The good thing was that Simon didn't have that much shooting and at least in that field I had some considerable advantage.

Outcasts - Army List

My army list had to be changed from 2500 to 2400 version and I had a hard time to decide what to leave at home. In the end I opted for some more tests for Eagle Claw and what better environment for that than a tournament!

Archmage, Staff of Solidity - High Magic
BSB, Heavy Armor, Shield, Great Weapon, Dragon Helm, Reaver Bow

10 Archers, Musician
10 Archers, Musician
15 LSG, Shields, Full Command
15 LSG, Shields, Full Command

10 Swordmasters, Bladelord, Amulet of Light
9 Swordmasters, Musician, Bladelord, Talisman of Loec
10 White Lions, Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame
10 White Lions, Musician, Standard, Gleaming Pennant
5 Dragon Princes
5 Dragon Princes
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Spears

Great Eagle
Great Eagle
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

I also had to drop one Swordmaster but with one unit of Reavers it was exactly 100 points less and I was ready to go. I wanted to use my units superiority to overwhelm one flank with combined charges. Seeing hydra on the West I decided to go there to hunt the beast down and surround the opposing enemies. Even Black Guard might have tough time against a few of my units if they combine their efforts. I didn't want to completely abandon Eastern flank though since thanks to that I could maintain the pressure from both sides and keep the enemy threatened. As long as these big units had many targets and were stretched I could use the gaps in between them or simply prevent them from supporting each other.

Since Druchii are also T3 and lightly armored foes I wanted to use my shooting superiority to some effect. Shooting down Simon's own shooters was the priority and then I wanted to focus on the units I intended to fight against if possible.

In the end, however, I wanted to hit them in close combat and hit them hard as eternal hatred is for nothing if there is no one to hate me :)

Deployment

You need to forgive me but during the tournament I had no time to make notes about details such as deployment order. I usually opened deployment with archers and eagles often followed by sea guard.

Image
Deployment of both armies. Simon has just bought his Druchii so the painting is at the very early stage

Image
Both armies after scouts deployment and vanguard move.

Initially I deployed Reavers in front of the Dragon Princes on the East but when Simon deployed his Shades there I decided to use Vanguard move to hide them behind Sea Guard and also add extra distance in between the regiments. No need to provide easy target right from the start!

Dreadlord was deployed with Corsairs. Level 4 was accompanied by warriors ready to give their lives for her and level 2 was deployed with Crossbowmen. Archmage started with White Lions while BSB was with Swordmasters ready to shoot as soon as possible.

Wizards got following spells:

Supreme Sorceress - Miasma, The Enfeebling Foe, The Withering, Okkam's Mindrazor
Sorceress - Fireball, Fulminating Flame Cage

Archmage - Drain Magic, Shield of Saphery, Fury of Khaine, Flames of the Phoenix, Vaul's Unmaking

To my surprise I won the roll-off for the first turn so it was my chance to begin the battle for a change.

Outcasts - Turn 1

Image
Delaying force on the East ...

Image
... and main forces on the West

Image
High Elves begin envelopment

The regiments on the East move forward with light horse being protected by their heavily armored companions. Both units aimed at Shades who were left in the open. On the West the striking force moved at a steady pace. In the center only Sea Guard moved forward to be able to shoot at their enemy. All units able to do so focused their fire at Druchii crossbows and despite some protection from the forest only 2 of them and a Sorceress survived.

Dark Elves - Turn 1

Image
Arrogant Dreadlord moves forward on his own to face the flanking force of his enemies

Image
Harpies fly to sacrifice themselves for their masters benefit

Image
Dark Elves move towards their hated kin

Druchii army moved forward to meet their hated kin as soon as possible. Harpies were sent to slow down High Elves advance. Arrogant Dreadlord moved on his own to intercept flanking force of the enemy while Shades pulled back a little and shot at incoming heavy cavalry but their bolts didn't find any weak spots.

The Sorceress moved to join her mistress among warriors. The onslaught of her own retinue made her very angry and in her cold fury she wanted to punish High Elves. In doing so she drew too much energy and while her Fireball was cast with such a force even the Archmage could not stop it she also could not prevent magical feedback. 9 of the warriors lied dead as a result and only the fact that Supreme Sorceress treated them as expendables saved the adept of the black arts from her wrath. Few White Lions died too.

Outcasts - Turn 2

Image
High Elves start setting up some traps

Image
High Elves continue their advance and clear the field from Harpies

Seeing that the Harpies were so close to their lines High Elven warriors charged vile creatures. In the center they tried to flee but didn't escape swift Sea Guard. On the West they were simply butchered by elven elites.

Regiments on both flanks kept encircling their foes with Great Eagles swooping down to harass the enemy too.

Regiments on both flanks kept encircling their enemies. On the East High Elven units ignored the challenge of the Dreadlord. On the West White Lions entered the woods which happened to be treacherous indeed as they lost 3 of their number due to poison.

Magic and shooting was directed against survivors of the crossbowmen regiment, which ceased to exist and against quickly melting warriors protecting both sorceresses. Suddenly Druchii wizards didn't feel so safe anymore.

Dark Elves - Turn 2

Image
Hydra attacks

Image
Hydra almost decimates Sea Guard unit

Eager to kill some Asur Shades charge against Ellyrian Reavers but swift horseman of Ulthuan kill 4 of the Druchii scouts before they have a chance to strike. Remaining 2 flee through swamps with Reavers in pursuit.

Dreadlord parades in front of the Sea Guard and Dragon Princes to provoke some reckless charges and to protect the flank of the frenzied Corsairs who just caught one of the Eagles.

On the West beastmasters directed Hydra to the center of the battle line and the fire breath it unleashed at nearby Sea Guard cost life of all but 3 High Elves. The survivors were determined to keep fighting though.

Sorceresses ordered their heavily depleted regiment to pull back and hide in the woods while Black Guard reformed to face advancing cavalry.

Outcasts - Turn 3

Image
Sea Guard charges the Dreadlord

Image
High Elves do not commit their main forces yet

Ellyrian Reavers avoid any dangers on the swamp with great skill of horsemanship and even catch fleeing Shades in the process. Sea Guard intercepts the Dreadlord hoping to hold him for as long it takes. Nearby Dragon Princes, knowing their heavy armor can be their doom in the swamp move back.

On the West White Lions suffer even more from the poisonous forest and are forced to pull back and re-group (Edit: Nothing like failing 2 DT rolls to force a panic test which is then failed ... with a re-roll :D).

Dragon Princes keep moving around Black Guard to threaten the rear of the Druchii army while Swordmasters form a battle line with a support of second regiment of Lions behind them.

Shooters aim at a weakened warriors and the unit now is almost finished with both Sorceresses having no place to hide.

Dark Elves - Turn 3

Image
Dark Elves strike back

Image
Black Guard charges in and overruns into Swordmasters. An epic fight is about to begin!

Dark Elves attack in order to break the encirclement. But Hydra only forces archers to withdraw and as they pull back to safety the beast has no one to attack. Black Guard removes the obstacle in their path and overrun into both Swordmaster units, eager to show the warriors of Hoeth who is the real elite.

Supreme Sorceress does what she can to either aid her troops or to weaken her foes before the combats and she is very successful. She also orders Death Hag to invoke Khain's protection as her unit is definitely too small to offer any safety on his own.

Outcasts - Turn 4

Image
High Elves attack again

Image
Sorceresses are in trouble

High Elves having a chance to capture the Battle Banner of the Druchii army together with both Sorceresses do not hesitate. Dragon Princes charge Cauldron and kill both witch elves. Death Hag strikes back but she is able to kill only one knight.

3 Sea Guard warriors and Reavers both charge in against warriors. Supreme Sorceress challenges High Elven champion to a personal duel and is wounded in the fight. Dark Elves still hold though.

Black Guard and an Assassin hiding in their ranks rush with anticipation against their enemies. The Assassin challenges one of the Bladelords and although he kills his adversary it is not without a wound being inflicted in return. Arrogant Druchii are sure of their success but warriors of Hoeth strike with preternatural speed and before Black Guards swing their halberds no less than 11 of them are dead already. Swordmasters pay bloody price for that but they already are getting upper hand and only stubbornness of the Black Guard achieved through rigorous training keeps them in the fight.

Dark Elves - Turn 4

Image
Black Guard is no more

Image
Sorceress fight for survival

Corsairs charge the Sea Guard locked in combat and kill all but 1 of them who is then caught in pursuit. Supreme Sorceress manages to avoid blows by High Elf champion and this time Druchii gain upper hand but Asur warriors keep fighting. Dragon Princes finally manage to kill the Death Hag and claim the Battle Banner of the enemy as a trophy.

In the epic fight between elite warriors of both armies Swordmasters leave no doubt who is the real master of the battlefield. Blag Guard warriors are killed to an elf despite Khaine's protection. The Assassin attempts to flee but is slain in hot pursuit.

Seeing her army almost destroyed Supreme Sorceress calls upon the powers of Drakness and in the magic nightfall she disengages and returns to the Black Ark with the few survivors of the host.

After-battle thoughts

As we run out of time we stopped at turn 4 and calculated the points. It turned out I claimed 13-7 victory which is a great success for me, especially considering the fact I played against a very good player with a very dangerous army. Of course I hoped to get the main prize, the Supreme Sorceress, but even without that I am very pleased with the result. What is even more important, the game was great and I would like to thank Simon for a fantastic battle played in great spirit. =D>

I did make a few mistakes, however, so let's have a look at a few things I could have done better as well as some general remarks.

1. With harpies and Dreadlord on steed there is an opportunity to block two units at once if they are too close together. I made that mistake with Sea Guard and Dragon Princes in particular. I aimed at a simple trap with an eagle at Corsairs who had to overrun thus presenting flanks. But that plan was shattered by hydra on one side and dreadlord on the other. If I kept Sea Guard and Dragon Princes a little more apart I could attempt a flank charge. I think I would even do so with a single unit.

2. Another mistake was to accept the challenge with a champion. I was under the impression that I had to accept as there was no back rank to withdraw but I was mistaken. I can refuse the challenge and still fight with a champion. Something that could allow me to strike with Reavers and maybe even kill the Supreme Sorceress on the charge.

3. I was unlucky with Lions who first lost 3 and then 2 of their numbers due to poison and then failed their re-rollable panic test. Fortunately I had more units to step in and keep fighting.

4. I positioned an eagle so that there would be a room to charge Black Guard if they refused to attack it. But then it happened they were in the flank arc thus carrying them towards Swordmasters. Since BG were in such a wide formation they had to engage both regiments at once. I thought I am in trouble as BG had also mindrazor on (wounding on 2+ is better than on 3+ and 6+ armor save is better than nothing) but I rolled well and had enough attacks to kill entire unit in 2 rounds of combat. The assassin killed both bladelords and thanks to the fact he challenged I could direct more attacks against the unit. I think it was the fight of the battle and I got even more confidence in Swordmasters after that. If used right they can really fight many other elites and win.

5. My two additions, Staff of Solidity and Eagle Claw were very useful. I think I did roll double 6's with Fury of Khaine to kill the Corssbows so that saved my Archmage. Eagle Claw simply added wounds and it was important to do so against crossbows and warriors. I think I also tried single shot against Hydra but it was probably saved.

In general I was very happy to win first game, also because I knew that I got a significant advantage and if we had a little more time I would have had a chance to get warriors and both Sorceresses while other units of the Druchii army were too far away to make any difference.

Thanks for reading and if you liked the report, please, leave a comment or two! :)

Cheers!
Last edited by Swordmaster of Hoeth on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
User avatar
Elessehta of Yvresse
Well played Sir
Posts: 7811
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#8 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

Congratulations Swordmaster, if you could attend more event I can imagine you getting an invitation to the masters.
His list is far too character heavy, and very shooting light. I loved how you just went around the Dreadlord.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
jwg20
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:50 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#9 Post by jwg20 »

I was under the impression that the poison forest causes DT on the lions? The lions are woodsmen (forest striders) and therefore do not take DT from any source in forests.

Otherwise, well played. It is important to remember that champions are not forced to accept challenges. That could have changed the game, and given you a much larger win.
Link to my YouTube Channel:
Image
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#10 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Thanks for comments!

@ Ele

Thanks! I will definitely try to attend more tournaments but more for the sake of it as all 3 I took part in were simply great. :)

I decided to ignore Dreadlord but if I only spread units a little bit more then it would have worked perfectly. As I said I am still glad with the result!

@ jwg20

I don't know how I overlooked that rule #-o Fortunately I had more units around to keep fighting. The one with champion is unfortunate too (and I made the same mistake in my last game where champion was not fighting as I didn't accept the challenge). The good thing is that I will remember that now and I also know that if the game lasted for full 6 turns it would be more decisive victory too. :)

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
User avatar
Elessehta of Yvresse
Well played Sir
Posts: 7811
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#11 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

You made the lions dt mistake in the last game with targ, but we were there to remind you.
Just one more turn would have netted you a more decisive win ^_^
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#12 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

No wonder Lions were angry at me and decided to fail panic test they were not required to take to teach me the lesson :)
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
User avatar
Elessehta of Yvresse
Well played Sir
Posts: 7811
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#13 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

zOMG, I just checked the results on warAU. [edited for spoilers]
Last edited by Elessehta of Yvresse on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
User avatar
~Milliardo~
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:50 pm
Location: Tor Skylla, Saraeluii Mountains

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#14 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

Pff, spoilers!

Congratulations though mate. :3
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#15 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

haha, wanted to leave it until the end :p

Thanks anyway!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Iluvatar
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:46 pm

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#16 Post by Iluvatar »

Thanks for the report, it's even greater than usual with both pictures and diagrams. Seeing both is just... great!

As for the game, I think that you truly deserved your victory. Your enemy might be an experienced player, but I feel like he wasn't prepared to your army. As it has been said, he was too spread out, and I feel like he was maybe too easily outflanked - on both sides! After your turn 3, you had several units able to charge his juicy, fragile units in the center, and he's actually lucky that the battle ended after T4.
One mistake I don't understand is: why charge your reavers with his shades? I would have thought shooting would be better and less risky...

Now, I fully understand that his decisions were probably hard: you had more ranged power than him, so he had to be offensive. But by being offensive, he opened his lines to your own attack. I think that's a pretty argument for using LSGs instead of Spears: I'm not sure that without those 30 bows he would have felt so compelled to attack. And that's why I like so much your army and its philosophy: you have shooting, fast units, redirectors, hard-hitting units, and magic that can be decisive on occasions. Your list is not so easy to face for a new opponent, since it belongs to many categories at the same time!

Btw, my first thought when I saw the spells was "oh, Vaul's unmaking against the Pendant. Excellent!". And then I saw the deployment... did you give up that chance on purpose? I think a vaul's cast on the dreadlord each turn would have drawn dispel dice quite fast...
Lord Anathir
Posts: 3416
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:11 am
Location: Univeristy of Glasgow

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#17 Post by Lord Anathir »

Good job on the tourney win.
For the dwarfs, there was only this. Hammerson met Grombrindal’s gaze, and the White Dwarf nodded slowly. If it must be done, let it be done well. Whether they were dead or alive, that was the only way dwarfs knew how to do anything.

And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#18 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Thanks a lot guys! :)

@ Iluvatar

Taking camera for a tournament was one of the best ideas. It does add a lot to the reports but also helps to recall the details of the game. Without them I would not be able to write the reports.

My opponent told me after the game that he too considered that charge with Shades a mistake. He didn't expect me to wound 4 times with Reavers, which is probably above the average. However, having 5 ASF attacks hitting on 4+ with re-roll it was still a gamble for him.

I think he played his usual game when he benefits from being aggressive. He has no shooting or not much in terms of magical ranged attacks but has good combat units. But going to combat is also playing to my army advantages. Even with all the shooting I have I still need to get to hand-to-hand and win there :) It is also good to be able to participate in all phases of the game with tools I have. Each can potentially be a turning point.

As to spells and relative deployment I did want to use Vauls but I also made that decision to position the characters on the West. The reason being the fact that they are often safer with elites and I could harass his other units with spells and magic bow. In that game he kept saving his dice for Flames of the Phoenix instead. A pity I could not harm Hydra with Fury though. I got nice number of hits but he saved all of them with 5+/4++.

Positioning of characters can be quite important so I still wonder if I did the best thing with deployment I had. I didn't lose them which is also very important. I was concerned with their safety on the East as there were not enough units there to hide and I wanted to trap corsairs too who have many attack and could potentially target my archmage if I didn't move him out before the combat.

In any case thanks for the feedback. Winning is good but one should be opened for other options I and I am grateful you spotted some additional options.

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave - HE MSU at a tournament - Game 1 up 7.11

#19 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Greetings!

In my game 2 I faced Adam and his very nicely painted Lizardmen. We played once during CanCon 2012 so it was a chance for a re-match. We had similar armies too, as Adam made a little changes in his list to accommodate Scar Veteran. Otherwise his army was quite the same. Another difference was the scenario. At CanCon we played Battle for the Pass while this time it was Battle Line.

Army Lists and pre-battle thoughts

Adam has an army which for me is a classic type with solid core and phalanx of tough Saurus warriors backed up by a nice section of support units. Unfortunately it still suffers from some comp penalties and Adam got 10/25 score for this list.

Lizardmen - Army List

Slann Mage-Priest, BSB, The Focused Ruminations, The Becalming Cogitations, Plaque of Tepok - Lore of Life
Scar Veteran, Cold One, Light Armor, Shield, Dragon Helm, Dawnstone (I think :))
Skink Priest on the Engine of the Gods, Dispel Scroll - Lore of Heavens

24 Saurus with Spears, Full Command
24 Saurus with Hand Weapons, Full Command
10 Skins with Javelins
10 Skink Skirmishers with Blow Pipes

7 Chameleon Skinks
20 Temple Guard, Full Command
3 Terradon Riders

2 Salamander hunting packs

This army can present a rock hard and solid formation which would be very hard to defeat with frontal attack. In our previous game I lost a combat against single block of Saurus with 2 Swordmaster units attacking this way so they definitely can fight hard.

I also knew Salamanders can be very dangerous to my small units but Dragon Princes would be a very good tool to hunt them down.

I needed to stay away from the Slann to be able to cast my own spells and I needed to spread wide to prevent Chameleons to sneak behind my lines.

Engine is always a challenge but Lions were eager to hunt the big beast down even at a cost of their own lives (Thunderstomp hurts my units a lot and it was not guaranteed I could kill it in one turn).

Shooting can be less efficient, as Saurus units are tough, have good armor and can also be protected by the Engine. But with curse of arrow attraction (if I have it) and focused fire I could still kill a few before the combat starts. And I wanted to target big blocks if support units were not viable targets. Also, some of them were too hard to hit anyway.

Last but not least, Scar Veteran can be a problem. He is very tough and can easily chew through my small units on his own. Good thing is he cannot be everywhere and it might take him 2 turns to do so.

Deployment

Image
Deployment - Blurry picture 1

Image
Deployment - Blurry picture 2

Image
Deployment after Vanguard - Terradons moved back while Reavers didn't move at all.

Archmage started the game with Swordmasters to stay away from Slann but be able to cast some spells. BSB was with Sea Guard. Scar Veteran was with Saurus Warriors and Slann with Temple Guard.

The wizards had following spells:

Slann Mage-Priest - Earth Blood, Flesh to Stone, Throne of Vines, Shield of Thorns, The Dwellers Below
Skink Priest - Iceshard Blizzard

Archmage - Drain Magic, Curse of Arrow Attraction, Fury of Khaine, Flames of the Phoenix, Vaul's Unmaking

Despite deploying last High Elves still got first turn.

Outcasts - Turn 1

Image
High Elves begin the envelopment

Image
High Elves advance

High Elves seized the initiative and advanced on both flanks with cavalry leading the way. Shooters moved into range where required and focused their fire on the Saurus Warriors killing entire rank of the huge Lizards. They, however, kept moving with cold resolve.

Lizardmen - Turn 1

Image
Lizardmen phalanx

Image
Lizardmen consolidate their formation

Lizardmen army groups together and moves as one, making their formation even tighter with Saurus forming a wall of scaly skin and support troops forming second line. A small kohort of skink warriors moved to slow down advancing enemy.

Slann attempts to cast magic was limited with only shield of thorns engulfing one of the Saurus blocs on the Western flank. Skink Priest was ordered to form a protective aura with the Engine of the Gods.

Outcasts - Turn 2

Image
East Front and ...

Image
... Western flank

Image
First charge

Dragon Princes on the Western flank charged small regiment blocking their path and scattered small lizards. Their companions on the East used the opportunity and moved swiftly on the hill out of sight of the Saurus Warriors. Elite infantry advanced too but regiments on the East slowed down to better co-ordinate their attacks at later stage.

Again all the shooters aimed at the Saurus Warriors and whatever protective aura they were surrounded by was neglected by the curse of arrow attraction cast at them by the Archmage. The arrows and bolts flew towards hulking warriors as metal to magnet and 8 more fell in the storm of arrows. It was hard to believe how quickly that units was melting down.

Lizardmen - Turn 2

Image
Depleted Saurus Warriors unit advances nonetheless

Image
Lizardmen switch to the Eastern theater of the battle

Saurus Warriors who suffered from the elven shooting were hardened by the spell and their flesh turned to stone. The rest of the army moved towards the elven regiments on the East and skink shooters managed to find some weak spots in the armor of elven knights. Two proud warriors fell to the ground.

Outcasts - Turn 3

Image
Attack on the East

Image
More decisive moves by elven forces

Elven troops on the West moved full speed towards retreating enemy. The shooters aimed at toughened warriors and still managed to kill 4 of the brutes. One of the Sea Guard unit moved forward to intercept any survivors while still shooting.

On the East Dragon Princes charged Chameleon Skinks but two survivors were filled with insane courage and held. That interfered with elven plans as the cavalry was supposed to be ready for a coordinated attacks from both flanks together with quickly advancing Swordmasters and Lions. Reavers were blocking Saurus Warriors to low them down for that very purpose.

Lizardmen - Turn 3

Image
Saurus charge!

Image
Lizardmen army fights back

Survivors from the Saurus unit charge Sea Guard but are unable to win the combat and keep fighting. Great Eagles are hunted down too.

Reavers feign flight and pursuing warriors do not catch them just yet. Terradons spot good target, fly over Swordmasters and drop their deadly cargo. Only 4 elves survive that bombardment and withdraw.

Salamanders go wild and eat a couple of skinks herding them to battle. Dragon Princes finish remaining skins but it seems that Lizardmen broke the cohesion of the battle line for elven army on the Eastern flank.

Outcasts - Turn 4

Image
Western forces arrive

Image
Envelopment continues

Dragon Princes who just defeated Chameleon skinks charge salamanders but as they flee the knights level their lances and charge a new, much more powerful target. Their aim is to kill skink priest but slim lizard is saved by his gods and rampaging Stegadon kills two elves. Last survivor tries to buy some time for his companions.

The fight between Sea Guard and few Saurus continues, heavily outnumbered Lizards not wanting to give ground. Reavers once more harass Warriors on the East.

Swordmasters and White Lions ready themselves for the incoming combat while elven shooters aim at new target, Temple Guard. Hail of arrows and bolts once more proves deadly when 8 elite bodyguards of the mage-priest fell down. (Edit: I am not sure if I got curse of arrow attraction here or was it with combination of shooting and fury of khaine).

Lizardmen - Turn 4

Image
Combat and movement see Lizardmen repositioned towards Eastern flank

Image
Eastern part of the Elven army collapses but Western troops keep up the pressure

Temple Guard charges Swordmasters who prepare for last stand to regain their honor and kill 4 saurus before they are put down to en elf.

Scar Veteran charges on his own and this time Ellyrians are not fast enough to avoid the enemy. The warriors turn back to the West while skinks move to the hill and even manage to kill two Lions.

Skink priest uses destructive power of the Engine and cracking energy kills one knight in combat with the stegadon as well as two more from advancing unit.

On the West only 2 Saurus remain fighting elven Sea Guard but the combat is still not resolved.

Outcasts - Turn 5

Image
Wrath of the Lions!

Image
Slann Mage-Priest is in trouble

Dragon Princes charged Salamanders but were not swift enough to catch them when they fled. Swordmasters and White Lions advanced for support anyway. Magic sees one of the Salamanders dead anyway.

White Lions on the East charge Temple Guard and in a savage furry of attacks kill 5 of them losing only 2 of their own. Slann bodyguards are almost done.

Elven shooters with the lack of better target aimed at Stegadon and this time skink priest was not lucky to avoid incoming arrows and despite his armor he was shot dead.

Lizardmen - Turn 5

Image
The battle enters final stage

Image
White Lions continue hacking down temple guard

Enraged Stegadon charges Dragon Princes but elven knights withdraw. Scar Veteren sped up for the rescue as last temple guard was killed but Slann held. He even rose on the throne of vines and made Stegadon almost unkillable with extra tough hide. Prolonged combat between Saurus and Sea Guard continued.

Outcasts - Turn 6

Image
Sea Guard finally defeats last Saurus Warriors

Image
Last elven attacks

White Lions charge Saurus Warriors and Swordmasters follow but due to the fact they had to cut down Salamander on their way the attack was not coordinated and Lions went in alone. They now had to keep whole tough regiment on their own.

Remaining Lions from the second unit inflicted 4 wounds on the Slann and mage-priest barely held, clutching to life with all his remaining strength.

Lizardmen - Turn 6

(Edit: Apologies for no photo but we were close to time limit and wanted to finish without penalties. Every second counted! :))

Slann Mage-Priest cast throne of vines and healed itself a little but all other attempts were dispelled. (Edit: Throne went irresistibly) Scar Veteran finally arrived but Lions had last chance to kill the enemy general. Unfortunately they could not inflict that last wound but held even after Scar Veteran started to chop them mercilessly.

Their companions also held the line despite casualties and at this moment both armies disengaged. The forces were bloodied but it seemed that Elves gained the advantage.

After-battle thoughts

When we calculated points it turned out High Elves claimed 12-8 victory. I was very happy with the result as I managed to kill 2 big regiments and was very close to get the main prize, Slann Mage-Priest. Only timely come back of Scar Veteran saved him though so congratulations to Adam for that as it was very climatic end of the great battle. It was a great pleasure to play against you and your beautifully painted army! =D>

As always some remarks and comments:

1. Combination of small arms shooting and curse of arrow attraction can be quite efficient. I managed to decrease the number of warriors in 2 powerful units significantly enough to finish them in combat. Eagle Claw and Reaver Bow did make a difference here too.

2. I think I might have deployed my Western forces too far away but then I didn't want to change position for the shooters. Maybe one unit of elites, Lions for example, would have been better closer to the center. I was happy with Archmage positioning though as he was never close to mage priest but could target his unit.

3. I wonder if I did well advancing towards the Eastern units so early. Moving cavalry there was good but maybe I should have turned towards TG earlier? I didn't plan to engage them at all but now I see I can hurt them while fighting against that powerful block of Saurus with Scar Veteran could be too tough even for my elites as the enemy would remain steadfast for longer.

4. Adam changed his way of spell casting at some stage and throwing more dice for throne and getting IF was much better option than just 2-3 dice roll I often dispelled making his further attempts more risky. Also, if he had his Scar Veteran as an individual unit it would have given him more options.

Thanks for reading! :)
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Lord Anathir
Posts: 3416
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:11 am
Location: Univeristy of Glasgow

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#20 Post by Lord Anathir »

So far both opponents have chosen not to weight one of their flanks to their own detriment. Don't they see the obvious strategy of an msu force?
For the dwarfs, there was only this. Hammerson met Grombrindal’s gaze, and the White Dwarf nodded slowly. If it must be done, let it be done well. Whether they were dead or alive, that was the only way dwarfs knew how to do anything.

And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"
User avatar
Elessehta of Yvresse
Well played Sir
Posts: 7811
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#21 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

Nice work SM, a shame you couldn't get the last wound off the Slann.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#22 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

@ LA

So you are saying that I won only thanks to incompetence of my opponents? Nice, thanks man. Really appreciated.

@ Ele

It was close. I think I should have reformed my 6 lions differently so that I had 4 in the first rank and 2 in the second. In that case, when I fought against Slann and Scar Veteran I could still attack with 4 against his general. That one more attack could have been enough. :)
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Lord Anathir
Posts: 3416
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:11 am
Location: Univeristy of Glasgow

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#23 Post by Lord Anathir »

If that is what I thought I wouldn't have congratulated you on the win a few posts earlier. The dark elf player is ranked 2nd in australia, so that speaks for itself.
For the dwarfs, there was only this. Hammerson met Grombrindal’s gaze, and the White Dwarf nodded slowly. If it must be done, let it be done well. Whether they were dead or alive, that was the only way dwarfs knew how to do anything.

And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#24 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

LA,

I will be the last person to claim it was the most difficult tournament ever, with the toughest armies ever so that I can bask in the eternal glory. All I ask is to consider how you frame your opinions as they can be taken as an unjust criticism rather than a neutral comment.

I am happy to discuss any aspect of my game, my own mistakes, mistakes of the opponents etc. I do think, however, that it is fair to try to be as objective as possible. And to do so, one should at least try to point out not only mistakes but also good actions of a particular player. If you focus only on something that was wrong (even if subject to discussion) then there should be no surprise your comment is taken as all-negative.

It is true that in game 1 my opponent, despite his experience, didn't assess the potential of my army accordingly and played his usual game. That helped me to win the game. No doubt about it. He did a good job with blocking the units on the right flank with his Dreadlord even if in the end it didn't earn him enough points to make a difference. He made a mistake with Shades but he said so after the game himself. He underestimated Swordmasters and engaging both units at the same time cost him a lot. If it were one-on-one combat he might have prevailed but at a great cost anyway. He didn't take the bait with hydra and use her well enough to almost destroy sea guard unit but probably made a mistake of not chasing it so that he could have prevented attack on his Sorceress.

For me it was a great thing to hear after the battle that he had a great game and that he admitted he was outplayed. What is more, he was so impressed that he considers taking MSU version of one of his armies to Masters tournament.

In game 2 the deployment suggested the player does not know what ha faces but Adam did know my army already. I am only guessing here but I think he deployed in this fashion as I still had many units to drop and by creating phalanx of tough infantry in the middle he could turn it to either side and keep the pressure there. He actually did so as you can see, when I had to chase across the board with 3 of my combat units and being a little too late to change anything as I charged with heavy cavalry turn 5 and with elites turn 6.

He could have done better if he let Scar Veteran to run on his own. It is of course possible he would have done better with your favorite castle and simply sit in the corner and wait. He chose to carry the battle to the enemy and destroyed enough units to earn 8 victory points. Yes, he was very close to losing much more but he didn't. He had some bad luck (misfiring with salamanders twice in a row), in particular when he had a clear shot at Eastern Lions ad Swordmasters. But it was nicely balanced by his luck with break tests and passing enough ward saves to save the general. Seeing that his throne is dispelled when he throws 3 dice he started to throw more and that helped him a lot, with other spells too. He was unlucky not to get Regrowth despite rolling 5 dice for spells as it would have helped him to keep temple guard alive.

Sure, he could have played better and I do not point out to luck as a crucial factor although in the game of dice it does have an impact. It was a great thing for me to actually not kill his Slann in the end as seeing a smile on my opponents face even after lost game was worth much more than that victory. He had a good game too, was happy that he managed to save his general and simply took the lessons from the game to another battle.

S.
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Iluvatar
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:46 pm

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#25 Post by Iluvatar »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:It was a great thing for me to actually not kill his Slann in the end as seeing a smile on my opponents face even after lost game was worth much more than that victory.
Thanks for that alone! A little bit of wisdom, perspective and human feelings are always good to consider, even when playing Warhammer. :)
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#26 Post by Jimmy »

SM - firstly congratulations on the result, a well deserved placing for Ulthuan's own master of MSU. There is no denying it now!! :D

Onto the games.

Game 1 vs DE

I've never seen a dreadlord with that setup not mounted on a Pegasus so I was really keen to see how it operated. You're totally a credit to your force and make it work so well. You identified key threats from the Dark Elves and methodically started taking them out ignoring the Dreadlord until it was time to strike. I can see how easy it is for people to get confused about what to attack when against an MSU force, left unchecked you all of a sudden find elements of your army are just completely cut off and surrounded and its brilliant to watch!. Just in Turn 3 how did the Black Guard over run from the Great Eagle charge, or is the map a little off? Either way a splendid result with the first game and a text book win for the MSU list. On the game itself how long were the game rounds? 2.5 hours?

I was wondering the reason you accepted the challenge but you've addressed that and learnt for next time. Also it would have been great to face maybe the toughest player there first game and get it out of the way also getting the win!

Game 2 vs Lizardmen

I was interesting to see how you'd go against this relatively tough list. Not only did it have the usual Lizardmen filth but the Engine of the Gods can certainly wreck a MSU armies day pretty quickly. Impressive shooting really helped you out here by basically deleting the unit of Saurus. Were you rolling above average for them? I think as soon as your opponent altered his direction of battle and reacted to your moves so radically you'd clearly got the initiative and weren't letting it go. In your Turn 4 did you have the opportunity to use your archers against the Terradons or were you less concerned about them due to them already dropping their payload? Also Turn 5 when your Dragon Princes charged the Salamanders could they have re-directed into the Stegadon? Did you challenge the Temple Guard at all in order to lure the Slaan out earlier or negate his BSB and magic item uses?

Thanks for the reports so far, very much looking forward to the remaining games! :D
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
jwg20
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:50 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#27 Post by jwg20 »

Swordmaster,

First, congrats on both wins! Well played both times, though I think the 2nd should have been bigger. Way to handle the big blocks of lizards! That can be a challenge for MSU, even HE MSU. Its amazing what focused firepower can do!

About Anathir's comments, I think you misinterpreted him. The way I took his initial comment about "how did they miss the obvious strategy against MSU", I think he was wondering if you did anything to prevent them from overloading a side? In other words was it:

a) The way you deployed hid your strategy long enough to prevent him from successfully overloading a side
b) He was intimidated by the number of drops you had, so didn't want to deploy to hard to one side. If he shows his cards early and deploys against one side, its easy for you to dance away from that side and get an easy 12-8 win by killing something on his flank and then dancing away from his hard hook. I have won games that way. Were they worried about that?
c) He underestimated what MSU can do in the hands of a good player and deployed centrally because they underestimated you?
d) They were unprepared to face MSU
e) They were limited in some other capacity from terrain, or maybe they were worried about surrendering a flank.

I didn't take his comment as dismissive. As he said, the DE player is #2 in Australia, so its clear you didn't win because he didn't know what he was doing. You outplayed/outdeployed him, I think Anathir was asking how, if it was you deploying really well or it was him being unprepared or otherwise limited/intimidated by the number of drops. Maybe I just took it that way because I know him well enough to gauge his comments. Dwarf players are always blunt! :)

Speaking of which, how did deployment go? I know from experience how hard it is to deploy against you, any insight on the order of drops to see how you got it to work against skilled players? (I need as much advantage as I can get for our rematch against my VC :) )

Great games so far, and great reads. Looking forward for the next few.

EDIT: Just looked at results myself... curiosity got the better of me. Suddenly I find myself looking forward to the rest even more. :D

EDIT 2: I Hope you got out of lab long enough to watch the solar eclipse! I am pretty sure it was visible for you.
Link to my YouTube Channel:
Image
User avatar
Elessehta of Yvresse
Well played Sir
Posts: 7811
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#28 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

jwg20 wrote:I Hope you got out of lab long enough to watch the solar eclipse! I am pretty sure it was visible for you.
It happened just before work, the boss was out front handing you welding mask lenses out so people could see.
It was perfect weather for it on the Sunshine Coast, not a cloud in the sky.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#29 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi guys!

Thanks a lot for comments!

@ Iluvatar

Somehow it is important for me. Everybody wants to win but if by playing a game I can also make sure it is fun game for my opponent despite his loss then even better. I try not to be sore loser either. :)

@ Jimmy

Thanks a lot! I am really happy with the result even if it is a local tournament. It was a good challenge to play all the armies nonetheless. As to mastery of MSU I assure you there is still plenty for me to learn which is great as I do enjoy playing with that army. :) I greatly appreciate your high esteem of my skills, thanks for that too!

Let's address your comments about the games too:

Game 1

Dreadolord is a very dangerous character but I think it helps me here that I do not have any big unit that he might want to block. Hence his usefulness is much lower. Of course it would be great to have a chance to kill him but since he is such a difficult one to destroy and even with Vaul's Unmaking it might not be that easy I like the fact I could tie him for a while with a single regiment. It was good trade off even if I messed positioning of Dragon Princess and could not use them properly. I didn't want to risk going through the swamp either.

The situation with Eagle is represented correctly (although I have noticed I put wrong photo for this turn, now it should be right). The interesting thing is that the Eagle, although still presenting the front, has majority of BG in its flank. So when they charged they wheeled 90 degree to do so. After that their overrun move get them into contact with Swordmasters. Then, when closing the door, they also dragged second Swordmaster regiment into the same combat.

Yes, the games lasted 2.5 hours. What is interesting all of them, apart from this one, I managed to play fully. I think lack of scenarios helped in that regard and the games were no less dramatic.

Game 2

I think my rolls were not that extraordinary but where consistent which helped. On the other hand Adam's rolls for saves might have been a little below average too. What really helped to tip the balance in my favor was Reaver Bow and Eagle Claw since they reduced armor save significantly and I was under the impression that they accumulated the similar number of wounds as Archers and SeaGuard combined.

I didn't consider shooting at Terradons as I don't think they were viable target due to range. Somehow it felt right to keep shooting at Saurus infantry and as you could see it did pay off. My shooting seemed to scare them off at the beginning of the game and I would probably try to target them if they stayed in the open.

I considered redirecting against Stegadon but seeing what it did to the other regiment I decided to save points. I thought he might charge but I was still far away enough to be able to withdraw. S5 is not quite enough against T6, 3+ AS monster even if there would be no thunderstomp.

White Lions charged TG simply because it was the only option. I could not move out if sight and decided to take a few with Lions whom I thought are quite dead. But it seemed like a perfect solution since he could not support TG and I was killing them much faster than they could kill me. That was a good experience as now I know I can try and tackle them in hand to hand provided there were no buffs on them.

@ jwg20

Thanks! I was very pleased with the shooting phase, no mistake about it!

As to LA and his comment I tried to give myself the benefit of a doubt but it is hard to read between the lines when there is only one. :) If he were more specific and/or elaborate a little more on that topic I am sure I would have better idea what he is aiming at.

To answer your questions about deployment it was a little different in between these two games, so I will have a look at them separately.

Game 1

I think Simon was simply not prepared to face that army. He told me he has never played against such a force and was visibly surprised that it proved to be very dangerous to his troops. He played his usual, aggressive game but in particular in the case of Black Guard he learned the hard way that even with Mindrazor he might have been at a disadvantage. Simply because Swordmasters hit first and were hitting on 3+. His experience helped him to stall my right flank and not fall for obvious traps (like the one for Hydra) but it was not enough to come up with a good plan during the game to change the course of battle.

Game 2

Adam faced my army before so he had some experience. First game was battle for the pass, however, which helped him to protect the flanks. Now he had to address that. Since I started deploying shooters center-left his natural reaction was to deploy his main blocks in the center where he had some protection for the hills. Even with tough warriors as Saurus players do not like being shot at and he could sacrifice support troops but without Regrowth I guess he was reluctant to move against fire base straight away. I also had many more drops so he had to take that into account. Some units in particular didn't like some of my other troops. Salamanders pulled back simply because they had Dragon Princes coming at them. Stegadon was not so happy about Lions either so maybe that is why it stayed in between Saurus blocks. Judging by Adam's moves during the game he was definitely concerned about flanks hence his withdrawal with some regiments and that is why, I think, he created double line.

I will try to address that with following games while making overall comments. But for now I can simply say it was a mixture of the points you have made.

I am sure you already figured out how to deploy against my army with yours, especially that you have some significant number of drops yourself. :) I wish I remembered exact deployment order but often it was still with shooters and eagles first. The main thing was to leave units such as Lions with flaming attacks, Swordmasters with magic attacks, cavalry and eagle claw as last to get the most benefit from that. Eagle claw in particular, since I wanted to make sure I have a good line of sight and to gouge that I needed all the troops deployed, even if I needed to take that into consideration from the very beginning.

I am currently working on diagrams for game 3 and I will try to post the report tomorrow or on Friday.

Unfortunately we didn't have the opportunity to observe the eclipse as it was only visible on the North. So lucky you Ele! :)

Ok, onto these diagrams :)

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Hammer of Dave- HE MSU at a tournament - Game 2 up 10.11

#30 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Greetings!

In Game 3 I played against Peter and his Daemons. I met Peter before at CanCon 2012 where he defeated me with his Warriors of Chaos so it was a good chance for a rematch. On the other hand Daemons tend to be a tough opponent for many armies and when I saw Peter's army list I knew I am up to a challenge again. :)

Army lists and re-battle thoughts

Peter's Warriors were built around big units and his Daemons were similar in that regard. It also seemed that Peter prefers to build tough armies and make up for any penalties from composition score (10/25) with big enough wins against any opponent he faces.

Daemons of Chaos - Army List

Blood Thirster, Obsidian Armor, Immortal Fury, Spell Breaker
Herald of Nurgle, BSB, Noxious Vapours, Stream of Bile
Herald of Khorne, Axe of Khorne, Armor of Khorne
Herald of Tzeentch, Loremaster, Spell Breaker - Lore of Beasts

30 Blood Letters, Full Command
30+ Plaguebearers, Full Command, Icon of Eternal Virulence
7 Flesh Hounds
10 Horrors of Tzeentch
5 Furies
2 x 1 Fiend of Slaanesh

Quite compact army with powerful characters, most notably Blood Thirster. I had a few games against daemons but only one against Blood Thirster. I knew that it can destroy any infantry regiment I have in a single turn with his mighty attacks and thunderstomp. If I was lucky I would get a wound or two with my elites but only if it attacked from the front. Which was hard to force it to do as it flies and can pick combats much better. Units with champions could hope to hold it for longer but again, no guarantee it will fight them at all.

Since hunting down BT can be a very tough task I decided to kill as much of the daemonic army as possible. If I only can kill support units and get one of the big regiments then I might be able to balance any losses caused by BT. Then I had to make a choice which unit to try and engage. I decided to fight against Blood Letters and thin them down with my bows simply because they are much easier target to defeat than Plague Bearers. They have T3 and ward 5+ instead of T4 and 4+.

I didn't know if that might work well enough but I always feel better while moving my troops so I didn't opt for castling my fragile regiments. Even with BT on board I had enough units to play to my strengths in a movement phase so I was really curious to test my plan.

Deployment

Image
Armies assembled for battle in the far North

Image
It seemed as if both armies weighted their left flanks

Seeing the army of my opponent positioned to the East I opted for West as main direction from which I wanted to approach. It looked to me that Blood Thrister is not going to go this way and I could use my speed to envelope the army of daemons. I also deployed the shooters a little further back so that they put a little distance in between. Especially that it is always more probable that my opponent gets first turn. I positioned cavalry and eagle on the East to slow down enemy advance or to be able to attack any light troops and guard the flank of the shooters for a while at least. I also wanted to keep my characters away from Blood Thirster as keeping them safe against that combat monster is one way to give myself a chance in that game. So Archmage went with Swordmasters while BSB was initially with Sea Guard.

As expected Peter won the roll off and his was the first turn.

Herald of Tzeentch knew all spells from the Lore of Beasts thanks to Loremaster gift. High Elf wizard had:

Archmage - Drain Magic, Shield of Saphery, Curse of Arrow Attraction, Courage of Aenarion, Flames of the Phoenix

Daemons of Chaos - Turn 1

Image
Daemons advance

Image
Main regiments move forward while rest of the army changes positions accordingly

Main blocks of the daemonic army move forward full speed but maintain dense battle line. Blood Thirster flies more towards the East and lesser daemons flee from the West where majority of the elven army is about to advance.

Herald of Tzeentch, as ordered by his master, magically toughens Blood Letters making their forms even more wild than usual but in doing so it also draws too much energy. The feedback wipes out the spell from his memory and drains the remaining power it wanted to use.

Outcasts - Turn 1

Image
Eastern flank of the Elven army holds ...

Image
... while Western part of the battle line moves rapidly

The regiments on the West move towards the enemy at double speed. Lions and Swordmasters in the center move to intercept Flesh Hounds and to threaten the flank of Blood Letters. The units on the East pull back a little, as the path to the flank was blocked by the enemy.

Archmage engaged the Tzentch herald in the duel of minds and while potent Flames were extinguished by the sacrifice of the part of heralds own physical essence the spell that attracted arrows to target like a magnet was not stopped. Elven archers and bow armed sea guard all aimed at now cursed Blood Letters and despite their magically enhanced toughness full rank of the daemons perishes to the warp. Eagle claw crew aims at Blood Thirster with a single bolt but they miss.

Daemons of Chaos - Turn 2

Image
Blood Thirster has landed

Image
Flesh Hounds charge

Flesh Hounds charged immediately after receiving an order from their master and rushed towards White Lions. Brave Chracians were not impressed much by the ferocity of the daemonic beasts and 4 of the hounds perished. 4 Lions, however, died too.

Blood Letters held their advance and reformed ready to defend the hill and protect the flank of their army while Plague Bearers and Blood Thirster moved forward.

The Tzeentch herald once again drank deeply from winds of magic and once again failed to control them properly. A huge spear projected towards Eagle Claw and the machine was utterly destroyed in a blink of an eye. However, herald forgot yet another spell. (Edit: At this stage the herald was level 0 and I thought he cannot cast spells anymore but Peter assured me he can. I am afraid Peter was mistaken as I have checked later appropriate FAQ.)

Outcasts - Turn 2

Image
High Elves maintain the pressure on the Western flank

Swordmasters flank charged hounds to help out White Lions and beasts of khorne were no more. Other regiments kept fast pace to surround Blood Letters occupying the hill.

The regiments on the East moved so that they were either out of sight or if attacked could prevent overruns into another targets. Only Dragon Princes were somehow slow in their advance (Edit: Nothing like failed march test so they could parade in front of Blood Thirster :))

Archmage again tried to summon deadly Flames and again his efforts were thwarted by diabolic gift, this time used by Blood Thirster itself showing its spite for any magic users.

Not worried about that, bow armed Elves kept shooting at Blood Letters and more than a rank perished again.

Daemons of Chaos - Turn 3

Image
Blood Thirster first kill

Image
Blood Letters had enough and retreat

Blood Thirster seeing such a good target as enemy heavy cavalry charges in and predictably leaves no survivors. Plague Bearers get rid of the annoying eagle while one of the Fiends attacks another one. Surprisingly enough it fails to wound and gets a wound back instead.

Blood Letters start to retreat, as the deadly fire of elven archers melts their number far too quickly.

Outcasts - Turn 3

Image
Elves on the West keep chasing retreating Blood Letters ...

Image
... and these in the center keep shooting at them.

The regiments on the West were relentless in their pursuit and closed the distance again. In the meantime the Archmage finally broke through herald's defenses and Blood Letters started to burn. With the aid of usually accurate and deadly shooting only 2 ranks of daemons remained in that world in their physical form.

The fight between the eagle and fiend remains locked and unresolved.

Daemons of Chaos - Turn 4

Image
According to Peter all goes as planned! :)

Image
Blood Thirster continues its rampage through elven lines

Blood Thirster chooses its next target and only a single archer is allowed to flee to spread the terror among elven ranks. On the East Fiend charges light cavalry which skilfully performs feigned flight and avoids the horrors on the way.

Blood Letters double their efforts to escape pursuing Elves. Surprisingly the Fiend finally loses against Great Eagle (protected by magic shield) and with its bond with physical world broken, it disappears.

Herald of Tzeentch is ordered to put down magical Flames engulfing Blood Letters and it obeys.

Outcasts - Turn 4

Image
High Elves versus Plague Bearers horde

Image
The trap for Blood Letters closes in

3 elven regiments maintained the pursuit after Blood Letters. The Archmage one more time summons the Flames and with the help of limited shooting from some of the elven regiments (notably BSB) Blood Letter horde is now reduced to a single rank.

The units on the South prepare for the inevitable charges of Blood Thirster and Plague Bearers.

Daemons of Chaos - Turn 5

Image
The battle enters its final stage

Image
Elven units on the South are under attack

Blood Thirster destroyed yet another archers unit while Plague Bearers killed the heroic eagle and the momentum of the charge carried them into another fight, this time against sea guard.

Blood Letters, in their last attempt to escape their pursuers attack careless light cavalry which retreats from the battle. Furies sacrifice themselves to block warriors of Hoeth from attacking the Blood Letters.

Outcasts - Turn 5

Image
Blood Letters are finally caught and destroyed

Dragon Princes level their lances and charge the rear of Blood Letters unit, destroying all but a herald. It strikes back but is not able to reverse the inevitable and is sent back to the warp. Swordmasters easily destroy furies and reform.

Sea Guard tries to close their ranks and hold but the pressure of daemons of nurgle is way too much and they flee the battle. Sensing that the battle is close to be over but with grave danger still there, Archmage reaches for magical boost of courage for his warriors. Filled with vision of Aenarion, Elves steel themselves for the incoming attack.

Daemons of Chaos - Turn 6

Image
Plague Bearers at the flank of Sea Guard!

Image
Last daemonic charges

Blood Thirster picks his last target and charges White Lions from the flank. They try to fight back but in such unfavorable situation even mighty Chracians cannot stand and die to an elf.

Plague Bearers charge exposed flank of the Sea Guard but stubborn elves refuse to break. Herald of Tzeentch once more gets too much energy and his unstoppable spell turns it into Black Hydra. Fiend moves in to block the Lions from joining the fight.

Outcasts - Turn 6

Image
High Elves hold the line despite all odds!

Only White Lions charge to finish off the Fiend. Other regiments keep safe distance from very dangerous Hydra. However, all eyes turn to see what is going to happen in the combat between Plague Bearers and Sea Guard. To help his warriors to hold the line just a little longer elven Archmage summons his powers and once more magically aids their courage. The spell is not stopped by daemonic powers and stoic elven warriors hold!

After-battle thoughts

With that last act of valor the game ends and it was a perfect timing as 2.5 hours we had for the game has just run out. A great game, great challenge and very enjoyable atmosphere. Thanks Peter, it was good to meet you on the field of battle again! Although I didn't win I consider it a great progress nevertheless. Also, congratulations for taking 3rd place! =D>

When we calculated the points we found out the difference is around 20 points so we got a draw! A very good result for me, considering how dangerous Blood Thirster is on its own to all my units.

One of the benefits of writing a battle report is the opportunity to have a look at the game with fresh perspective and many times I have learned some more from that too. I think it is also the case here, so let's have a look at what conclusions I came up with:

1. In general I was pleased with the deployment. The only change I am thinking about now is swapping Dragon Princes with White Lions with Gleaming Pennant. Having Lions on the flank I would be able to protect it better and Dragon Princes would use their greater speed better on the other flank.

2. I made a mistake with Reavers when positioning them behind furies, giving Peter an opportunity to charge them and I had to flee to make sure Blood Letters do not escape my forces. I put too much resources in order to destroy that unit so I would not forgive myself if they escaped.

3. Another mistake was to line up Swordmastres so single unit of furies could block them. In fact, I should have moved SM2 towards horrors instead. First, that would prevent that blockade. Second, I didn't need 3 units against Blood Letters, 2 were enough to keep the pursuit going. Of course, if it was not with Hydra which could not be there as herald could not cast anymore, I might risk charging with Dragon Princes and Swormdasters last turn anyway but it still was my mistake and I didn't use the opportunity.

4. I also think I didn't use eagles well. First eagle was sacrificed too early. I wanted to prevent double charge on Dragon Princes but I could simply move them back and position them so that Blood Thirster would not overrun into another unit. It would put Plague Bearers in position for long charge, something they might not yet attempt. In the worst case scenario I would flee with DP and lose archers but with eagle around I would be able to block Plague Bearers better and prevent them from charging more valuable units. The same with second eagle. By sacrificing it I actually made it possible to overrun into Sea Guard. If I let PB to charge my infantry straight away I might have still lost it but daemons would have been a little too late to charge another regiment. Even more so if I fled. No need to give extra points for banner too! And that would have prevented the free combat reform.

5. Other than that I was very happy with the performance of my army. Shooting and magic once again proved to be quite dangerous and I could use speed to destroy that Blood Letters unit in the end. I am in particular pleased with Courage of Aenarion spell as it literally saved my army. I was hard pressed at this stage and if I lost the combat I would lose 400+ points. Great spell, often underestimated and overlooked. I actually took it on purpose when I could choose one of the spells before the game. Sure, I was lucky enough to cast it, especially on turn 6 when I had 4 dice against Peter's 3 and when I rolled all of them to make sure the spell goes through.

Yet another great game, another good result (in my opinion at least) and a few lessons on how to be even better next time. :)

Thanks for reading and if you liked the report, please leave a comment or two!
Last edited by Swordmaster of Hoeth on Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Post Reply