MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

This forum is for the posting of reports of your famous victories and crushing defeats. It is for both single battle reports and for ongoing army diaries/blogs.

Moderators: The Heralds, The Loremasters

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#1 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Greetings!

After a little break I had another opportunity to play a game. This time against Squigkikka (or Gutrippa for those who play at UB) and his all Goblin army.

Army lists and Pre-battle considerations

I have seen a few variants of his army already and it indeed does not include a single Orc. Which makes it easy to underestimate. I have also seen it winnig games against tough opponents. The exact army list I faced this time is as follows:

Goblins Army List

Goblin Warboss, Great Weapon, Glittering Scales, Talisman of Preservation, Other Tricksters Shard
Night Goblin Warboss, Great Weapon, Armor of Destiny
Night Goblin Warboss, Great Weapon
Night Goblin Warboss, Great Weapon
Night Goblin Warboss, Great Weapon

Night Goblin BSB, Great Weapon, Standard of Discipline
Goblin shaman, Level 2, Dispel scroll - Little Waaagh
Goblin Big Boss, Gigantic Spider, Shield, Light Armor, Sword of Might, Dragonhelm, Luckstone, Potion of foolhardiness
Goblin Big Boss, Wolf, Light Armor, Shrieking Blade, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem
Goblin Big Boss, Wolf, Light Armor, Spear, Charmed Shield, Opal Amulet, Potion of Toughness

5 Wolf Riders, Spears, Shields, Light Armor, Shortbows¨
5 Wolf Riders, Spears, Shields, Light Armor, Shortbows¨
38 Night Goblins, Spears, Shields, Full Command, Nets
21 Night Goblins, Shortbows, Musician, 2 fanatics
28 Goblins, HW, Shields, Full Command, 3 Skulkers

26/9 Squig Herd
15/10 Squig Herd
6 Trolls
Wolf Chariot
Wolf Chariot

2 Doom Divers
Rock Lobba

I was really surprised by the number of characters in this army. I haven't seen it before. I also expected Arachnarok or Pump Wagon too but it seems this time I didn't have a pleasure to face huge monsters. We played hidden lists so I didn't know exactly about the equipment each character has and definitely didn't know about fanatics or skulkers. So many warbosses with GW meant that it would be very difficult to defeat goblin units head on. I needed combined charges and even then it would mean casualties on my part. Some of the characters had fast cavalry rule which again made them even more dangerous.

Also SquigHerds pose a threat as with so many of them they will have a lot of attacks back anyway. I also needed to get to the artillery very quickly as Doom Divers in particular are very dangerous to my small units and their accuracy is even better than rock lobber. Chariots had to be taken out quickly as well. I had an answer to trolls but I also knew they are going to be troublesome anyway.

Basically, the main problem with this army is that it has so many targets which need to be dealt with quickly that it makes it really difficult to tackle them.

High Elves Army List

Archmage, Level 4, Annulian Crystal, Dragonbane Gem - High Magic
BSB, Great Weapon, Armor of Caledor, Dawnstone

20 Spearelves, Musician, Standard
18 Lothern Sea Guard, Musician, Standard
10 Archers, Light Armor, Musician
10 Archers, Light Armor, Musician

10 Swordmasters, Musician
10 Swordmasters, Musician
10 White Lions, Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame
10 White Lions, Musician
5 Dragon Princes, Musician, Drakemaster, Foe Bane
5 Dragon Princes, Musician
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Spears, Musician
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Spears, Musician

Great Eagle
Great Eagle

I decided to come back to classic equipment for my BSB and run him with Spears to help them in combat as he tends to end up in there anyway. I also wanted to see if I can make use of Lothern Sea Guard in more aggressive approach. Sometimes they can be in spots where they cannot yet charge but with swift reform I could be annoying and add some more arrows when it counts.

Before deploying armies we rolled for spells and the wizards got:

Goblin Shaman - Vindictive Glare, Itchy Nuisance
Archmage - Drain Magic, Shield of Saphery, Curse of Arrow Attraction, Fury of Khaine, Flames of the Phoenix

Deployment

Image
Deployment after vanguard moves

I decided to play refused flank and overwhelm the enemy with my units on the West while Lions backed up by nearby BSB could hold the enemy approaching from the East or support the center if required. I also intended to focus my shooting and magic on a single target (if possible) to create opening for cavalry to go through and attack artillery as I expected there would be no easy paths there.

Three Night Goblin Warbosses joined Night Goblin regiment with nets while the general, another warboss, bsb and shaman led ordinary goblins to battle. Big boss on spider joined night goblins too, one wolf rider boss kept trolls in check while his twin used his vanguard move.

Goblins won the roll off and theirs was the first turn.

Goblins - Turn 1

Image
Goblins rush forward

All goblin army rushed forward. Only the chariot on the Western flank didn't move much, a little shy to be too close to elven cavalry. On the other hand, Wolf Riders on the Eastern flank started to argue who is going to reach elves first and darted forward with even greater than usual speed. Who said animosity is a bad thing?

Elves were not impressed but then greenskins launched their crazy suicidal goblins. One of them flapped his wings furiously and aimed at heavy cavalry. The wind was strong and his course was changed but ... he hit another heavy cavlary regiment. And he did so with such a force that all knights were dead in an instant. This impact was so strong that it created some additional effects and second unit of elven knights could not keep their steeds under control and moved away. Swordmasters nearby interpreted that as a signal to regroup and moved back quickly too. Just a second after that the earth cracked and both regiments had no chance to join the battle again. (Edit: It was a very heavy blow, I lost 3 regiments in one go because when one unit of DP died 2 other units simply panicked and I rolled high enough for them to flee the battle. It looked as if I didn't bring any heavy cavalry at all and started the game with less than 2000 point army. Auch!)

High Elves - Turn 1

Image
High Elves try to re-arrange their battle line

Elven Warriors knew that they need to act fast. The army redressed the ranks to be able to focus on the Western flank. Ellyrian Reavers risked the swift movement through treacherous swamp and even their horsmanship was not enough to force their way through the mud. They lost two of their numbers and their steeds panicked. Instead of using the narrow opening they had to break through and charge the enemy artillery they now added to the confusion among elven ranks.

One of the valiant eagles sacrificed itself and drew the attention of goblin fanatics. One of them didn't reach the noble bird pf prey, while second killed it outright and promptly flattened himself on the nearby rock.

All shooter and archmage focused on the goblin unit with biggest, most ragged standard. Around 2/3 of the regiment perished due to combined efforts of archers and magical flames but goblins, still fearing the warboss more than Elves, kept going forward.

Goblins - Turn 2

Image
Goblins keep up the momentum and charge

Goblin regiments continued envelopment of the elven line from the East and to keep them where they are Trolls were ordered to charge White Lions. Huge brutes stumbled forward and drew another unit of Lions into bloody combat. Only single troll fell, as their regenerative abilities saved many wounds in an instant. Many lions fell but both units held and the fight continued.

Greatly depleted regiment of goblins, burned badly decided to go through the swamp to put down the fire but in doing so some of them went too deep into the mud and after they crawled out of it their bsb and their ragged banner was no where to be found (Edit: I apologise for not correct diagram, basiacally goblins where closer to the swamp and with march move they had to do some dangerous terrain tests. BSB failed and since he was already wounded it meant he was dead)

Spider riding big boss charged great eagle which retreated and then changed his attack at reavers who performed their feigned flight. With no more targets to charge big boss slowed down his monstrous mount. Goblins already started to celebrate their shooting efficiency and that led to a disaster as one of the catapults which supposed to launch another crazy diver fell apart. Still some Spearelves were hit by remaining artillery shots.

High Elves - Turn 2

Image
High Elves are in a very difficult situation now

Eagle and Reavers rallied but that also blocked other regiments and elves could not press forward to be able to break through the encirclement. Second regiment of Lions, augmented by their magical banner, destroyed all but 2 trolls and ugly monsters fled but were faster than pursuing chracians. Too bad for elves as that would help them to attack another foe before the enemy could co-ordinate their charges.

Lothern Sea Guard spotted the flank of spider rider but could not reach it just yet. In that situation desperate measures were taken and reavers and archers both exposed themselves to charges of the enemy to protect the flank of other regiments. Archmage tried to help too but although his fury of khain was cast successfuly it didn't do enough damage and spider rider was only wounded once.

Goblins - Turn 3

Image
Goblins attack from every direction

Badly positioned Lions were attacked from 3 directions. They managed to kill one wolf rider, wound big boss once despite the fact some shiny trinket interfered dramatically with the magic of their banner and then killed one of the strange goblin, masked and performing moves in the mockery of true martial artists. Depite their barvery chracians lost half of their numbers to combined attacks of goblin characters.

Goblin chariot crew decided that riding through mud is great fun and splashing through the swamp charged Swordmasters. Their vehicle barely managed to hold long enough for them to hit home but when they did even super-natural speed and training of warriors of Hoeth was not enough to avoid the chariot. They destroyed it but at a cost of many of their numbers and few survivors had to retreat. Luckily for them wolf riding boss was distracted by the flying eagle and didn't catch them.

With so many units to charge no wonder that night goblin warbosses started to argue which one to attack first and by some random decision they attacked reavers. Light cavalry held knowing it is a suicidal mission only to keep the horde occupied a little bit longer.

On the West their companions also desperate to let other regiments to survive sacrificed themselves and held against the attack of horde of squigs. Even Archers tried to fight but although they inflicted a wound at spider rider they could not hold and fled the battle.

High Elves - Turn 3

Image
Situation of the elven army is grim indeed

Heavily beaten Elves still had some options to fight back. Spears charged wolf riding boss but he fled. Lions kept fighting to the last warrior. Archers aimed at wolf riders behind their back but only 2 goblins fell and the survivors didn't care about their dead companions.

Archmage, knowing it is probably the last chance to change the course of battle, tried to destroy the chariot but yet again his spell didn't do the damage it supposed to. Even added volley from Lothern Sea Guard was not enough to destroy the chariot. Then the attempt to summon flames of the phoenix was stopped by goblin shaman who managed to read some dirty parchment properly enough to awake its magic and dissipate the spell.

Goblins - Turn 4

Image
Goblins keep attacking

Squigs and Chariot both charge remaining Swordmasters with an Archmage who manages to destroy the chariot but it does not help them as they all die horribly. Lothern Sea Guard fights bravely, despite the nets dropped on them from all sides and wound all the warbosses badly. However, they do not kill them and many elves perish too. The pressure of many goblin ranks is too much and elves flee.

High Elves - Turn 4

Image
Although defeated Elves keep fighting

Archers aim carefully and kill wolf rider boss. Great Eagle charges spider rider to open the path for spearelves to attack as well. Great bird cannot defeat the spider and dies in combat. Spearelves, led by BSB destroy wolf rider boss and overrun towards trolls but do not reach them just yet. BSB swung his blade so hard that the head of the goblin boss flew far towards the goblin warboss. He picked it up and decided he liked the hat. He remembered some story about some general who was wearing the hat in a funny way. What was his name? Papo, Napo, Gapo ... some kind of Leon for sure. He was supposed to be a smart general too. Feeling that he is going to be even better he was about to shout "March Move!". At the same time though, he took a bite of something he found in his pocket and while mounching he managed to shout "Mashroom!". All the goblins at once decided they want another mashroom too and started to run towards nearest forest. Which was exactly in the opposite direction than warboss intended to go. What is more, nearby night goblins also heard about new tasty mashroom and run towards the forest not wanting to be the last ones. Only trolls didn't know waht is going on and looked around in confusion.

Goblins - Turn 5

Image
Not many Elves are going to survive this battle

While warboss and his goblins were still runing toward the forest other regiments kept fighting. Spider rider attacked archers who held and fought bravely despite casualties. Night goblins charged Lothern Sea Guard again but this time elves could not wound warbosses and fled the battle with goblins in hot pursuit. Trolls, oblivious to the presence of elven spears nearby, moved a little bit forward.

High Elves - Turn 5

Image
Last Elven charge

Determined to save their battle banner at least Elves charge trolls. They beat them and run them down in pursuit but 4 of elves drawn in the treacherous swamp. Unfortunately archers could not inflict the last wound and died fighting spider rider.

Later on, goblins stop in the forest but not being able to find any mushrooms turn around to face the elves again. They were too far away though and decided to attack with magic and artillery but could not finish off elven BSB. In any case it didn't matter as goblins were victorious anyway.

After-battle thoughts

Oh boy, where should I start? That was heavy blow at the very beginning of the battle. I tried to fight back but kept making mistakes and as a result was beaten so badly it was not even funny. My fleeing units kept blocking the path of my still intact regiments and I was choked by goblins who had no problems at all with encircling and picking up the fights. Very painfull lesson indeed. This is the list of things I believe could have been much better:

1. Deployment - the idea was good the execution not so. I should have taken into account that DP ar going to be the first target and deploy them closer to BSB or BSB closer to where they are. Thus helping nearby units to pass their panic tests if I got hit as badly as I did. I also failed to deploy my regiments so that they can support each other. As a consequence they were picked apart one by one. Worst case scenario for my army.

2. Reavers - I didn't use them well. Especially the unit on the Western flank. I was desperate to keep Squigs away but in doing so I forgot they can reform after combat. I should have fled thus taking them away from my lines.

3. Magic - in general very strong point of my army this time, flames could have changed much. However, the main problem was getting rid of that chariot when it mattered. I could have cast curse on it too so that I could be sure it is destroyed. Of course, getting 4 hits for fury didn't help but I really should have added all I could to kill it. With archmage still alive I could try to cat magic at big night goblin unit and help LSG to fight it.

4. Movement - apart from the fact I could not move due to fleeing units in front of my battle line (which didn't want to flee far wnough to go behind it) I didn't position Lions and SM in the center well. I could expose Lions with banner so that charging trolls would not be able to attack second unit. Because they could they held them and with no luck in catching them in the second round of combat I was simply exposed for combined charges which sealed my doom in turn 3.

That was very poorly played on my part and I am in addition embarassed to lose so badly against goblins. Squigkikka is a very competent player and he used all the opportunities very well. The good thing is it can only be better :)

Thanks for reading! :)
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
User avatar
Elessehta of Yvresse
Well played Sir
Posts: 7811
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#2 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

Ye gads, a sea of green and you drowned in it, ouch. Loosing the heavy cav in the first turn, and a unit of Sword Masters was terrible luck.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
User avatar
Rabidnid
Posts: 964
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#3 Post by Rabidnid »

Goblins are such a fun army to play, but there are just so many of them. I think that it is time you consider dropping the DPs with the sword for another mage and the banner of sorcery. Magic has the power to turn games, and at 2,500 points you could do with the added flexibility and killing power that a bigger magic phase would offer.
"Luck is the residue of design"
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#4 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

@ Tiralya
Well, I believe I have seen worse :) In the end, even after such bad luck I still need to find out what could have been done better in the deployment and then in turn 2 when I was in a very bad position but not without ability to fight back.

@ Rabinid
It is possible that more magic would make the army better. But I am not convinced it is the only way. What is more, changing army list is not going to make me play better. I need to learn from my mistakes or missed opportunities in the first place. :)
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
User avatar
Rabidnid
Posts: 964
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#5 Post by Rabidnid »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote: @ Rabinid
What is more, changing army list is not going to make me play better. I need to learn from my mistakes or missed opportunities in the first place. :)
More magic will give you more answers to problems your army can't currently cope with. You're list is completely dependent on redirection and combi charges, so when you meet a more numerous opponent, and those options are taken away by their superior numbers, you're play suffers because you are trying to win in circumstances where there are no good options.

Apart from the 5+ ward you have no way to mitigate damage to your own units who are in tough situations. Having the means to give a unit T-7, their opponent only hit of 5+ or 6+, make them unbreakable, or annihilate a pesky opponent with a "get off you're dead" spell like dwellers or pit, will help mitigate situations you currently cant't handle.
"Luck is the residue of design"
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#6 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Rabinid!

It amazes me that the suggestions to change the army appear more often when I lose than when I win with the same army also against more numerous opponent :)

In any case what army list exactly would you field instead and how would you deploy it in this game then?

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Baeronvonbleat
Posts: 434
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:31 pm

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#7 Post by Baeronvonbleat »

I think early game panic tests are one of the greatest weaknesses of any army, not just an MSU army (although there are a great deal more panic tests to be taken, you're going to fail some, but you're also less likely to lose that massive unit turn 1).

Your general first turn movement clustered your entire army together, up close, and in danger, so when he charged turn 2, things just got ugly.

Terribly unfortunate for most armies, but your MSU relies on your control of the movement, which just fell apart. Not much you could really do there. With the reavers plunking rightin the midst of everything, and the fleeing eagle being there, it's just mass chaos.

Keep the charge lines clear, your flee lines manageable. I also find that when I play MSU, i prefer to stagger my units a bit (to avoid having two units charged (Trolls into both white lion units. If he can make this charge without clipping the second white lion unit, doesn't he have to do it that way?)
Findolfin
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:06 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#8 Post by Findolfin »

ouch ! #-o

Obviously, initial blow was rough but I think what really made you lose the game is being too defensive after that. It led you to regrouping your units too close together in the middle where you essentially nullified your mobility by attempting to form a battleline. I just don't see your army made to hold a battle line. This was amplified by placing your reavers and eagles in front of it where they actually worked for your ennemy advantage, even worst when they fled. Another factor was your ennemy fast elements were left unimpeded to envelop you, made easier by your grouped center position.

Not sure how I would have played the rest however after that heavy loss, I would have tried to use both eagles and reavers to threathen flanks and rear, as they stand a good chance in CC against goblins if they get such charges. It would have been more efficient than exposing them to ennemy fire where they get either killed or panicked before even redirecting. A rear/flank charge on a unit of goblins should hold it there long enough, if not break it on it's own, with the added bonus of not being in the front arc where the shooting is ( war machines are another story ). I know I would be more stress out with a flying unit landing behind my unit than in front of it.
A tale of Ellyrion, cavalry army blog:
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=749457#p749457
Painting log:
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=816029#p816029
"We ride until the sun sets..."
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#9 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Thanks for comments!

@ Baeronvonbleat

Indeed, I have noticed that in my recent games I start to deploy units too close to each other or move them in the way that they block each other. Very bad in general, and for MSU army in particular. Just a comment on Reavers and Eagle in the center. We played closed lists so I didn't know if he has some fanatics in big NG unit or not. I chose to position the eagle in the center as I thought that by doing so I can force him to release the fanatics either to the West (so that he does not block his goblins) and he would have to block chariot and lone hero on spider or at the eagle, in which case I could shoot them down. He didn't have them at all.

I risked with Reavers. We had a swamp in the middle so I did dangerous test on 1-2 and I lost 2 warriors. That in turn forced panic test which I failed. :( I risked marching through the swamp because they were my only weapon against artillery at this stage and I had wide enough opening to get them through.

If you add the fact that when I fled with both units they fled very short distance (at one stage I rolled triple 1 for eagle so it landed in front of spears and forced reavers to hold :() then you can see how big confusion it caused. I guess I need to move and position my units in a more spread out formation so that when one flees other are not affected.

@ Findolfin

I wanted to be more aggressive, my plan was to march quickly to the West were I could engage his units before his regiments from the East can join the fight. That was also the reason why I ignored Wolf Riders. I failed, however, due to bad positioning and fleeing of other eagle and reavers.

I guess at some stage, when I had such a confusion in the center I simply got desperate. I could not break through, I failed to catch fleeing trolls etc. Painful lesson but it seems one has to get some now and again :)

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Findolfin
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:06 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#10 Post by Findolfin »

I hear you, that`s why I don`t bother with redirection. I always end up blocking my own charge lines :lol:

I prefer using theses fast units to get behind were they are safe and threaten flank and rear, it often accomplish the same ''disruption'' job unless your opponent has a very cold blooded nature. Probing the character of the player in front of you is also part of the game, very much like poker. Stuff like that, forcing leadership tests for panic, terror, fear, etc., all adds up. Sorry, I am diverging here.

Still... speaking of which, all Gobblins fear elves. Did you made him test for it?

Also you mention you went trough the swamp with Reavers because it was wide enough, lost 2 and panicked... wide enough for a formation of 5 to get trough you meant? Would I be wrong in saying you forgot one of the most important feature of reavers which is unlimited free reform? You could have reformed 1 wide and conga line march your way between the goblins and trolls small gap, then reform again with a clear line on the machine, or for a rear charge.
A tale of Ellyrion, cavalry army blog:
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=749457#p749457
Painting log:
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=816029#p816029
"We ride until the sun sets..."
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#11 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Findolfin!

He did all required tests, no worries! The thing is he either passed them (good Ld for goblins due to general in 12") or was immune to it. Squigs and Trolls do not test. One hero had a Shrieking Blade while another was riding a spider which causes fear itself. As you can see he was well prepared :)

As to reavers the gap was wide for frontage of 2 to ride through and that is why I wanted to use the opportunity for free reform but it was not to be this time.

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
BorkBork
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#12 Post by BorkBork »

Hi,

I haven't read it in much detail yet (at work atm) but the thing that strikes me that for someone playing a refused flank you end up surprisingly central on the table. (and i am taking into account the turn 1 losses)

btw: i have posted a link to this thread on da-warpath cause i think kikka may wanna see this as well (not sure wether he is checking this forum as well).
[color=#00FF40][b]BORKS WAAAGH ON DA WARPATH[/b][/color]
[url]http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=25246[/url]
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#13 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi BorkBork,

Yes, all the greenskins will have a lot of laugh at my performance for sure :) Squigkikka knows about the report as I posted in on warhammer.org.uk and he made some comments too :)

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
BorkBork
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#14 Post by BorkBork »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:Hi BorkBork,

Yes, all the greenskins will have a lot of laugh at my performance for sure :) Squigkikka knows about the report as I posted in on warhammer.org.uk and he made some comments too :)

Cheers!
Dont worry, we dont laugh after victories....we barbeque ;)

Anyway, very impressive thread you have there at warhammer.org.uk.
And kikka's comments seem very usefull.
[color=#00FF40][b]BORKS WAAAGH ON DA WARPATH[/b][/color]
[url]http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=25246[/url]
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#15 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Barbeque you say :) Well, I just trust you will add that report on Warpath when I get my revenge too :)

I put all the battles on warhammer.org into single topic as I felt it was better for that forum. Here I can split them into separate topics as it seemed to me more apporpriate. Essentialy all the games are the same :)

Indeed, I liked Squigkikka's comments and that will definitely be more helpful than just the lesson I got from the game itself :)

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Baeronvonbleat
Posts: 434
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:31 pm

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#16 Post by Baeronvonbleat »

You mention his heroes had fear/terror items. While they don't have to test, the units still would (change in 8th, fear/terror are not shared between characters and units). So if Caradryn is in a unit of white lions against a fear causing target, he doesn't test for fear, but the white lions would.

Simultaneously - If a terror causing lord is in a unit, against a fear causing unit, his unit tests for fear, the other unit tests for fear, and he gets no test!
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#17 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Baeronvonbleat!

That is a very important point you have just made but rest assured we did everything right in that department :) The more interesting situation occurred in the case of mentioned heroes. Here are examples:

1. Goblin hero riding Spider (who causes fear) attacks elven Archers. Who tests for fear?

2. Goblin hero riding Wolf and armed with Shrieking Blade (causes fear) fights against White Lions with Flaming Banner. Who (if anybody) tests for fear?

Hm, maybe I should post it in rules section too? :)

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Baeronvonbleat
Posts: 434
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:31 pm

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#18 Post by Baeronvonbleat »

If Goblins fear High Elves, then consider all High Elf units to have the rule "Fear" (when fighting goblins).

So the Goblin hero with "Fear" is against the archers who also have "Fear", so they cancel out (no fear test).

For the Lions against the mounted hero, they're fear causing because they're High Elves AND because they're flaming, but it still only counts as fear, so again it balances out, no tests for either side.
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#19 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Baeronvonbleat!

In the first situation I thought the same. However, my oponent claimed that his hero is not testing for fear but my elves should as it is Spider not Goblins who cause fear. He also added that Elves do not have rule Fear as it is but it is for Goblins who fear Elves. From his point of view I should test and I did.

Second situation was easy despite more sources for potential fear and no one tested as you said.

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
BorkBork
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: MSU HE - 2500 vs Goblins

#20 Post by BorkBork »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:Hi Baeronvonbleat!

In the first situation I thought the same. However, my oponent claimed that his hero is not testing for fear but my elves should as it is Spider not Goblins who cause fear. He also added that Elves do not have rule Fear as it is but it is for Goblins who fear Elves. From his point of view I should test and I did.

Second situation was easy despite more sources for potential fear and no one tested as you said.

Cheers!
We had this discussion (quite heated though) over at the warpath as well. The consensus was that fearing something did not automatically mean that the other thing caused fear (in the sense of the rules). Therefor, as the elves dont really 'cause fear' things like magic items and monsters still cause fear tests for the elves.
[color=#00FF40][b]BORKS WAAAGH ON DA WARPATH[/b][/color]
[url]http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=25246[/url]
Post Reply