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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:27 am
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario
First thing's first: My apologies that I can't embed the photos in the actual thread. I uploaded them at full size in our gaming group's website, which resizes them when you put them in a thread, but here they become pretty big real estate hogs. I'll definitely fix this for next time. If the pictures don't work, just let me know and I'll upload them somewhere else.

On to the game!

Here are the lists we brought:

High Elves

Archmage, Forliath's Robes, Talisman of Saphery, Silver Wand, Level 4, Shadow Magic
Mage, Level 2, Annulian Crystal, Metal Magic
Noble, Battle Standard Bearer, Armour of Caledor, Great Weapon, Dawnstone

14 x Archers, Musician
11 x Archers, Musician

35 x Spearmen, Full Command

14 x White Lions, Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame
12 x Swordmasters, Bladelord
20 x Phoenix Guard, Full Command, Banner of Sorcery
5 x Dragon Princes
1 Lion Chariot
2 x Great Eagle

Lizardmen

Slann Mage Priest, Loremaster, +1 Dice thingy, Becalming Cogitation, Cupped hands of the old ones
Skink Priest, Engine of the Gods
Scar Veteran with nasty stuff I never found out about

18 x Saurus Warriors, Full Command
25 x Saurus Warriors
10 x Skink Skirmishers
10 x Skink Skirmishers

3 x Salamanders

25 x Temple Guard

9 x Chameleon Skinks

Deployment
http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127076.jpg

Deployment ended up being a mixed bag - his skirmishers owned the right flank (especially when those chameleon skinks he forgot to deploy dropped down there on the first turn :P - I let him drop them where he would have originally), but my heavy hitters were all on the far left flank, ready to take on the engine of the gods and the smaller block of saurus.

I put my lion chariot to threaten advances from either the salamanders or either of the bigger blocks, but in retrospect that probably wasn't the wisest idea. You'll see why in a second :P

All-in-all, I'd say nobody gained any significant advantage in the deployment phase

Turn 1

High Elves

Let me start by saying that this was one of the most fun games of warhammer I've had in a while. The battle was close right up until the bitter end!

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127078.jpg

I decided to play this match a bit more conservatively. He took death magic, and most of his shooting was close range, so I thought I would use my range advantage to get him to come to me. The left flank troops moved up into advantageous positions, with the white lions threatening a charge on anything that moved forward, and the great eagle ensuring that a charge would go right into my eagerly awaiting swordmasters and/or set up some nasty countercharges.

Magic phase rolled a 4, but the banner of sorcery added 3 and one channel attempt succeeded, bringing the total to 8v3 power to dispel.

First spell out of the gate was a miasma on the salamanders, aimed at crippling their movement - I learned the hard way against another lizard player what happens when these little guys are allowed to navigate freely. The spell was allowed, with a 1 being rolled for the stat reduction. Oh well.

Second spell was a powered up enfeebling foe on the Temple Guard. Since I wasn't in range for most of my offensive spells (cogitation was on my metal mage), I figured I'd set up next turn's magic defense by popping on a remains in play he wouldn't want sticking around. He allows it, and I roll another 1 for the stat reduction. Oh well...

My attempt at a withering on the same unit gets dispelled, and my shooting does negligible damage.

Lizardmen

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127079.jpg

His forces move up, with both flanks spreading wide to attempt to surround me. His chameleon skinks move into shooting range.

Magic rolls a 5 and a 1, making the total 5 v 5 due to the annullian crystal. His first spell is a pumped up spirit leech (increased range), which I risk, knowing I need to dispel the caress of laniph even more. I roll a 2, plus my leadership of 8... darn. He rolls a 1, and we tie - PHEW!

Naturally, the caress follows, which I dispel with my archmage, and he finishes by dispelling my enfeebling foe.

Shooting kills one dragon prince on the left, and my poor, unsuspecting lion chariot. D'oh!

Turn 2

High Elves

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127080.jpg

I charge the skinks that were assailing my dragon princes with my white lions, and move an eagle in the way of the stegadon, in an attempt to slow his march, as well as cut off his advance right somewhat. My other eagle moves in the way of the swarm of skinks on the right flank, with the hopes of slowing down the approaching jungle throng.

Dragon Princes move up to pass behind the smaller unit of saurus and subsequently threaten the rear of the big blocks

Magic rolls a 4 and a 1, with a 2 on the banner of sorcery, and a successful channel by the skink priest - 6 v 4. I attempt a pit, but it gets scrolled, and a withering, but it gets dispelled. So much for that!

Shooting, I manage to take out 2 of those pesky chameleon skinks, and a single saurus warrior from the big block. God what I would have given to have that block of 14 archers on the right flank!

Combat - the white lions predictably plow through the skinks, and overrun into the forest to avoid a charge from the looming stegadon. Impact hits = sad high elves.

Lizardmen

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127081.jpg

One charge - his unit of saurus on my swordmasters, and more advancing with his blocks and skirting around with his skirmishers.

Magic - He presses the EZbutton (burning alignment), but rolls snakeyes for range. He rolls 2 and 2 for the winds of magic - I'm noticing a trend here - and manages one channel, giving us 4 vs 3.

He attempts a soulblight on my swordmasters, which would be really bad for me, so I dispel it. He gets a soul leech off on my Level 2 mage, and scores a wound on him. 2 lucky one dice casts with his level 2 gets harmonic convergence and iceshard blizzard on the Swordmaster combat.

Shooting - maybe one of you more experienced lizardmen players can help me out here. Does only one salamander need line of sight? Or does each one need it to shoot? We resolved it as only one, and according to the rules, and apparently flamethrowers can also shoot through walls, which I think is pretty retarded too. Anyway, the salamanders plus the skinks kill some archers and some spearmen.

Combat - The swordmasters dish out 8 wounds on the saurus warriors, despite the various curses and blessings flying around, and the lizardmen kill 6 of them in return. The result of the combat is a tie! I cockily exclaim that "there won't be a second round, so DON'T BOTHER". See results below

Turn 3

High Elves

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127082.jpg

A surround is within my grasp! The dragon princes and the white lions double time it right, in an attempt to get into position for the inevitable combat to come in the center. My Level 2 mage abandons the archers, who were about to feel the pain of about 300 x 10^5 poison darts coming their way. Finally, the remaining great eagle moves into position to delay/redirect the stegadon.

Magic - The dice roll up 7 v 4, and he puts becalming cogitation on my archmage. My level 2, eager to show off his magical chops and finally free of the becalming cogitation throws 6 power dice at Transmutation of Gold. No double sixes, but 24 casting power to a 21 dispel attempt. 7 of the 24 remaining saurus warriors turn to gold, to the awe of all the lizards around them. A one dice miasma follows suit on the remaining saurus warriors to seal the deal in the swordmaster combat, and reduces their WS to a paltry 1.

Shooting comes up empty - what else is new when you've got saurus warriors as your only target... - and so we move on to combat.

I now eat my words as my 6 remaining swordmasters only manage to drop 5 of the saurus warriors after an "I just cooked my dice" number of armour/parry saves. In return, he wipes out my swordmasters to a man. Darn x 2.

Lizardmen

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127083.jpg

He charges in with the remaining 5 saurus warriors from the swordmaster combat, right into my big unit of archers. Good, maybe they can actually do something in close combat, because they sure weren't winning any awards for shooting.

He makes a long charge with the unit of Saurus warriors with the scar veteran into my phoenix guard and moves his skirmishers into better positions.

Magic puts a Doom and Darkness on my big block of spearmen (I wonder what he's up to? :P), and a soulblight on my phoenix guard, with my archmage dispelling his further attempts to snipe my level 2.

Shooting - OH GOD THE HUMANITY. He incinerates 11 spearmen, and somehow, miraculously, they pass their leadership test on 6.

This combat phase requires some dialogue:

Me: "I declare a challenge with my archmage!"
He thinks for a couple seconds, and I get faked out and say "No, I'm not going to... are you going to declare a challenge?"
Him: "I dunno, are you going to declare a challenge with your archmage?"
In my head, I'm worried that he has a champion so I go "Hmm, I don't think I'm going to declare a challenge... unless you want me to?"
Him:"Maybe I do, maybe I don't"
Me:"..... ..... I'll... declare a challenge with my archmage?"
Him "**Expletive deleted**!"
Me: "You didn't take a champion in that unit, did you?"
Him: "No..." *hangs head*

With his scar veteran neutralized, The weakened phoenix guard still manage to kill 5 saurus, and asuryan protects the weakend elves, allowing only one to perish. PG win combat, but he holds.

Archers actually manage to kill two saurus warriors and tie up combat, but the stegadon rolls through the great eagle.

Turn 4

High Elves

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127084.jpg

The spearmen now get their flank charge that I'd hoped for, and the lions and princes continue their encircling maneuver.

Magic is 4 v 3, so I throw them all at a pit of shades, which goes through successfully, scatters a bit left, but still manages to take out 4 Temple Guard.

In combat, I break the saurus warriors with my flank charge, and pursue with both units. Dumb move... at least I catch them I suppose.

Lizardmen

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127085.jpg

He quickly takes advantage of my little pursuit blunder, and maneuvers his salamanders for some truly disgusting shots.

Magic phase rolls low again, and it's 5 v 4. He puts soulblight on my Dragon Princes, which I let pass - they're not going to charge until those lions are in position anyway. He then attempts a purple sun, which I dispel with my remaining dice - 19 versus 19! Thank god for the extra +1 for high elves.

Shooting - *Agonizing death screams* 14 spearmen and a handful of phoenix guard go down to the balls of flame from those &$&^ salamanders, and once again miraculously pass their panic test.

Combat - The stegadon has now joined the archer combat, and they whiff their attacks on the saurus warriors. The archers hold.

Turn 5

High Elves

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127086.jpg

Phoenix Guard get a charge off on the flank of the remaining 3 saurus warriors. The spearmen try to position themselves - in vain - to not get shot by the salamanders again, and the white lions approach conservatively, aware of the chance of a charge by the temple guard and/or a good blasting by the salamanders.

Magic phase goes a bit better for me: I get a miasma on the two lizardmen to reduce their weaponskill, an enfeebling foe reducing the temple guard's strength by 3, then a direct hit pit of shades taking out 7 of them right after.

The phoenix guard kill the remaining saurus warriors, and the stegadon kills the rest of the archers - we now have two units that are sitting in the middle of nowhere.


Lizardmen

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127087.jpg

The salamanders move up once again to rain down pain on the spearmen and the chameleon skinks move up to hold up the dragon princes. The temple guard shuffle to keep the dragon princes and the white lions in their front arc.

Magic rolls high for him as well; He gets aspect of the dreadknight on the temple guard, soublight on the white lions, but I dispel both caress of Laniph and soul leech. His burning alignment kills my Level 2

Shooting wipes out the remaining spearmen, and the BSB finally flees in panic.


Turn 6

High Elves

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/57422/module_gallery/original/127088.jpg

Finally, the opportunity I've been waiting for! The salamanders are in charging distance of my white lions, so I declare the charge, but they opt to flee. Either way, they're neutralized for the rest of the game, so no last minute surprises. I test successfully to redirect my charge into the Temple Guard, but fail their charge. So much for that plan...

The Dragon Princes charge the chameleon skinks, who hold.

Magic phase - Finally the elves get some revenge for their fallen spearmen friends. The archmage successfully casts yet another pit of shades on the unit of Temple Guard. Direct hit! Slann takes his look out sir... fails... then fails his initiative test and gets sucked into the void alongside a handful of other temple guard.

The archmage, now free of the slann's dispelling power, casts a miasma and enfeebling foe on the temple guard, both for -3 respectively.

The dragon princes manage to dice up enough skinks that they're testing on snakeyes, which they fail. The princes pursue, catch them and crash into the remaining temple guard.

Lizardmen

The stegadon attempts to charge the lone BSB, who due to doom and darkness flees in terror, however not off the table.

He dispels enfeebling foe and his remaining spells are dispelled, so we move right into combat.

The dragon princes manage to kill all but two of the temple guard, and they kill one prince in return. The no longer stubborn temple guard manage to hold on a silly low roll, and refuse me the points for that unit.


In the end, the high elves took the match, but it was just a minor victory.

I'd love to hear feedback on both my playing (I know I made a few dumb moves), or any feedback on the lizardman's playing. We're both either relatively new to warhammer, or coming back after a long hiatus.

Some thoughts from my end of things:

1. I need to manage those salamanders better. Ignoring them leads to me losing a 340 point unit of spearmen, which is not acceptable. The obvious choice is the dragon princes, but unfortunately he faked me out - he normally doesn't take a unit of them that big - so I dropped them before he dropped his salamanders. I suppose bolt throwers would have done the trick too?

2. My needless pursuit move with both the spearmen and the phoenix guard. I could have very easily just turned one of those two units to cut off the approach of the salamanders, but I wanted the points for that unit of saurus warriors, so I overcommitted.

3. Bolt throwers are a toss up for me - they would have definitely helped versus the stegadon, but I feel like they would have been very vulnerable to the skirmishers on the right. I suppose deployment would count for a lot here - keep them in a defensible position. Now that I think about it, they would have also been a great tool to deal with the skirmishers I just listed as a threat. Hmm...

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Check out my Army Blog for tactics, battle reports and general ramblings: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Army List Blog
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:10 pm 
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Great game, great report! Try Easy Thumbnails for a resizing program (just google it) for your images.

My 2 cents:

In your turn 2 I believe there were some crucial mistakes on your part that could've led to your demise: Your handling of the left flank was weak, at best. Basically, you needed all units here ready as soon as possible. As such, I believe your swordmasters should've been in combat against the saurus (why were they just standing there?). Also, the white lions didn't need support from the dp to go against the skinks. You could've put them and the masters against his saurus which would've allowed you to collapse that flank way sooner and put pressure middle.

Your handling of the salamanders was, as you said, poor. In my opinion the deployment made it really hard. You could've spent the first few turns shuffling your spears around your PG unit to make an extreme left flank. I don't know though, without RBT's and the DP on the wrong side it's a tough choice and I believe it was hard for you to handle them, given the deployment, your army and lores.

Your points:

1. Already mentioned above
2. Tough call. I overcommit too often as well, but then again points are important.
3. You could always try just one first, see how it fares for you ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:23 pm 
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Really interesting battle report, loved reading it! One Thing though, I thought if BSBs ran they were considered to be dead, as they would rather fight to the death protecting the army standard than flee? (I had this happen to me when fighting skaven and a HPA charged my spearmen, killing everything but my BSB who fled :(

Also with bolt throwers, I find that they rarely have the chance to make up their hefty point value. Especially with chameleon skinks you'll find that they'll be up at your bolt throwers in turn two, and you would have to be extremely lucky to do much damage in one turn of shooting.

All in all looks like it was a really fun game! Good job :D

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:49 am 
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Hey guys, thanks for the responses!

Quote:
I thought if BSBs ran they were considered to be dead, as they would rather fight to the death protecting the army standard than flee?


Luckily this particular rule only applies if the BSB flees from combat. I guess they find a way of morally rationalizing it to themselves that it's ok to run away like girls when their being shot at lol.

Quote:
As such, I believe your swordmasters should've been in combat against the saurus (why were they just standing there?)


I think my line of thinking here was that since I'd neutralized his shooting on the left flank, and the lack of any serious ranged threat from the slann, that I'd take advantage of the free turn of shooting and spellcasting. It was also a very long charge for the Saurus, and there was only 18 of them in the unit, so I figured the swordmasters would be able to handle them.

Of course things really didn't turn out that way for me in the end :P

In the end, you're totally right: I ignored the golden rule - the best defense is a good offense. If I'd have put those dragon princes in that combat with the saurus, things would have gone a lot differently.

In retrospect, I think the way to go might have been to put more pressure on that engine of the gods with the white lions. That was my original intent going in to the game, and I'm not totally sure why I deviated. Sometimes I just get surround frenzy, so when I punched through that flank, I failed my leadership test to restrain IRL.

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Check out my Army Blog for tactics, battle reports and general ramblings: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Army List Blog
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 7:29 am 
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Thanks for the report! I really enjoyed especially that I have never had a chance to play against Lizards and you had an interesting and uniue army list. It is nice to see PG from time to time and I think Shadow Magic is really good for them.

These salamanders are insane! In your next game wait with DP until he places them so at least you can put some pressure on him, not the other way around :)

I must admit at the beginning I have found out your movements phase quite chaotic :) and I didn't really know what you plan to do :) In the end you pulled off a victory but as you said yourself, that pursuit move with both units was not necessary. The deployment is obviously very crucial and due to some mistakes in that "phase" your archers could not shoot skinks while Lion Chariot was easy pray for poisoned darts of cameleons.

I don't think you need RBT's that badly. They are not easy to use. Often you have to protect them with other units and even then the can be hunted down. You have some others option in the army to deal with big lizards as they have low initiative and Pit can be deadly for them as you nicely showed. Sure, he was a little unlucky but so did you with your Swordmasters :) I think it was worth risking to send them against Saurus as you could win against them, especially with some hexes in the play. But then dice are dice and from time to time they feel to remind us who has the real power here :)

I say you play with that army a little more, try to be more carefull during the deployment and you should improve your performance for sure :)

Thanks again for a report, I hope there will be more of them :)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Shooting - maybe one of you more experienced lizardmen players can help me out here. Does only one salamander need line of sight? Or does each one need it to shoot? We resolved it as only one, and according to the rules, and apparently flamethrowers can also shoot through walls, which I think is pretty retarded too. Anyway, the salamanders plus the skinks kill some archers and some spearmen.

Perhaps it's worth taking up on the Lustria forum. I never had a LOS problem with salamanders. They either run around with clear LOS or get killed by artillery. just make sure you extenda flame template from the head of each individual sally and roll for distance (I'm good at overrolling). You don't get ot make all three shots from the one with the best angle, which makes larger units less efficiently than multiple smaller ones (though larger units are better protected vs. misfires and it's mildly amusing when artillery knocks out two sallies from a group of three leaving one sally with 12 handlers)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:34 pm 
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Very good read and loved the clear pictures. If at all possible though, I would try to get them to line in with your text, instead of linking to them. The pictures really help follow the course of the battle and switching between the text and the pictures isn't optimal. Someone already commented on which program (possibly) to use to scale the pictures to fit in line with the text, so I'm positive that will turn out great.

As for the problems with the Salamanders, the Dragon Princes are definately the main unit to deal with them. The main problem here is deploying your Dragon Princes later than your opponent deploying the Salamanders. In a situation where you are forced to deploy the Dragon Princes before his Salamanders, I'd advise you to just deploy them behind your lines in the middle of the board. This way they will be able to maneauvre to the flank you need them on in the first turn of the game. I don't feel like Bolt Throwers are the answer to dealing with Salamanders though. All those Skirmishers will just screen the Salamanders until they can get into a position to flame your units. The screening will mean an additional -2 to hit for your Bolt Throwers (usually resulting in no damage). Instead, a back-up option (besides the Dragon Princes) could be some sort of Magic Missile. The Magic Missile would also help you deal with annoying skirmishers (like the Chameleon Skinks). You could achieve this either by taking the Ruby Ring of Ruin on an Elite unit champion, or by switching the Lore of your secondary caster. I wouldn't change anything about the Archmage's Lore, as the Lore of Shadows has so much synergy with both Spearmen and Phoenix Guard.


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