Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

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Rhawtir
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Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#1 Post by Rhawtir »

Was ist mit dir, du alter penner?

Hey again guys! Well, it seems the Mordheim updates will have to wait for a while.

So, me and a friend have started trying this "Bolt Action" game. Simple, fun, and not super-expensive. I will be posting some battle reports later on, but I thought I should share some of the miniatures I've been paint for my friend's german forces.

Image

A light artillery getting hit by a HE-round.

Image

Image

The Panzer III.

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An officer, had to give him a swastika just because he's one of those douches that actually believe in the political cause.

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A gathering of soldiers.

Image

Image

I really wanted this scene to feel gruesome, and I think the light effect came through!


So this is my first update, I hope you enjoy it, more will come. Next update will be for ze Russians.

See ya! :D
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#2 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

It's a enjoyable game, one of the better turn mechanics in a miniatures game. I don't like it when people call it a "Historical Wargame" because it lacks the detail (and frankly accuracy) of those. But it's a very enjoyable miniatures game set in a historical period.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#3 Post by Rhawtir »

Well, having been in the military for years, I see mostly anything as a poor representation of reality. Be it computer games like ARMA or Battlefield. They're games, just like movies are just movies, no matter if they claim to portray something that's supposed to look like reality, it's fiction. Gamers who play ARMA often claim you have to act like in real life, but that's just a stupid claim. But I take it you mean to point out that you don't have to mimic tactics from the war to have success and weapons not having the effect/lack of effect versus human/vehicular targets that they might be expected to have in a fictional take on the setting. And that's true. But I heard about ww2 games that were beyond the point of playability because they take such small variables into account in the game mechanics, and I've thrown enough grenades and shot enough rounds not to be interested in that. In the end I see Bolt Action as kind of a 40k in a ww2 setting.

Anyway, I enjoy it thus far. I've been thinking of adding some depth to the armour penetration charts which I think should be a little more like the old charts for 40k, where you could chip armour away and so forth, more detailed, and perhaps with the jack-in-the-box effect being at risk of happening and such. I also wish close combat worked in some different way, it's very fast and dramatic but still seems like it could need some work.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#4 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

Rhawtir wrote:Well, having been in the military for years, I see mostly anything as a poor representation of reality. Be it computer games like ARMA or Battlefield. They're games, just like movies are just movies, no matter if they claim to portray something that's supposed to look like reality, it's fiction. Gamers who play ARMA often claim you have to act like in real life, but that's just a stupid claim. But I take it you mean to point out that you don't have to mimic tactics from the war to have success and weapons not having the effect/lack of effect versus human/vehicular targets that they might be expected to have in a fictional take on the setting. And that's true. But I heard about ww2 games that were beyond the point of playability because they take such small variables into account in the game mechanics, and I've thrown enough grenades and shot enough rounds not to be interested in that. In the end I see Bolt Action as kind of a 40k in a ww2 setting.

Anyway, I enjoy it thus far. I've been thinking of adding some depth to the armour penetration charts which I think should be a little more like the old charts for 40k, where you could chip armour away and so forth, more detailed, and perhaps with the jack-in-the-box effect being at risk of happening and such. I also wish close combat worked in some different way, it's very fast and dramatic but still seems like it could need some work.
Well it had nothing to do with the "realism of combat", having also spent a number of years in the militray, and experienced far more of it than I want. It's more the inaccuracies of strengths/weaknesses of particular units. And most of all the fact that you can play the game and not learn a single (accurate) thing about the war that serves as it's setting. That doesn't happen with actual historical wargames. But like I said as a fun game with WWII simply as a setting it is one of the better ones out there.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#5 Post by Rhawtir »

I think those were actually lesons learnt from where other games failed. I mean, I don't even remember the name of that ww2 game that I heard mentioned of being so detailed that it was unplayable, apart from that very fact. But if you have examples of how you would have liked to seen the balance play out I wouldn't mind hearing about it.

But I feel like part of the reason why we barely hear about historical games making it anywhere is perhaps trying to hard to mimic actual combat, in some cases, and while phalangite combat might be pretty easy to cope with, combat between infantry at 200-300 meters in which the combatans rarelly see the eyes of their enemy might be hard to make something out of for a miniature game at a scale of 28mm.

Also, and issue I feel like I've had to overcome to take my step into Bolt Action is the very tier 2 miniature quality. I only managed to find one company that actually provided ww2 miniatures that had any semblance of realism to them. Warlord games really do try to make nice miniatures, but they end up looking very cartoonish. And I start seeing why I do enjoy the sculpts from GW more than for example the creaters of Hordes/warmachine. It's that balance between making sculpts clean/detailed. Too much detail, and the miniature is a mess, to little and it just looks like a regular toy. Anyway, the miniatures I bought were from a company that only months after I got the minies went into a "deal" with warlord games and suddenly there were no more nice looking ww2 models. So I'm happy I got a lot of them because damn, most historical miniatures out there are sub par. The exception to this rule would be perhaps the Perry brothers.. Or atleast their plastic kits, their metal once are pretty meh.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#6 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

What games you hear about is driven largely by what games you choose to hear about. For example I hear next to nothing about AoS, but there are a few Nepolialic and American Revolution era games that I hear quite a bit about (despite the fact that they have a smaller following). However you have a good point about era of combat making a difference (though the distance you mention is something I'd quibble with). I've not found any more "modern" period wargames that I enjoy in the miniatures area. Avalon hill makes some good board games, but that's about as far as it goes.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#7 Post by Rhawtir »

Fair enough, but most Napoloenic wargames I hear of, or pike and shot, often suffer from bad miniatures. I mean, I wouldn't even paint some of the models I've seen, because they look so stocky and cartoonish.

Hmm nothing I've heard of.. But googling it I think I've seen some of their boardgames.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#8 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

I think they are out of Business or have been bought out by someone else, and much like the true historical wargames you've got to be really interested in the topic for the game to be any fun at all. As far as the minis go, it's a matter of scale and taste. Personally I dislike about 90% of the current GW range, and as AoS takes over that number only climbs.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#9 Post by Rhawtir »

Just to give you an idea of the difference:

The ones I bought:

Image

Those from Warlord games, who actually make the game:

Image

And I'de be as bold as to say this is a general issue for the historical games. Usually you end up with something like this: Image

And although I study history I just feel like that's such a bummer. Miniatures that are either stiff in their poses or just look like something from a cartoon. And while I agree with you GW has some horrible models, I still prefer their 6th/7th edition style to Warmachines Battle elephants and world of warcrafts humongous armours. I prefer the more "european" fantasy to the "american" ones, in short.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#10 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

It is a problem with a lot of the 28+mm range historical games, if I played that scale I'd probably stick with Perry, (who did a lot of the 5e brets and 6e empire as well) their range is pretty good for the periods they cover. You mentioned not liking their metals, but most of those are pretty nice as well.

Most of the good games use 15mm. Some of the ranges are awful, but others are ok. None of them are a nice as the perry stuff, but at the smaller scale it's not as noticeable. The other big difference is that most of them are very cheap (at the larger scale too) compared to GW. I think most with historicals people still mostly just play the game (and the minis can be used with any games set in that period), where with GW people very much collect (I'm guilty of that for sure).

I've noticed that Warlords range is very uneven, with some being decent and others being awful. I actually used Tamya model kits to make my americans and germans for Bolt Action. I had a lot of them still sitting in boxes from years ago. I want to do some other infantry units, and the suitable kits can be hard to find (they are out there though). Tank kits are crazy easy to find, and miles better than any of the gaming specific stuff out there. They are rather big compared to 28mm, but I usually only play people in my gaming group, an they just use my other army. One of the other guys is building a russian force the same way.
...I still prefer their 6th/7th edition style...
The Late 5th/6th edition GW fantasy models are some of the nicest models anyone has ever made. I spent a lot of time deployed during 7th ed and early 8th so I don't know when a lot of the changes happened. But I know by the time the 8th ed. Empire book came out of lot of the minis had been replaced by models that were pretty nice, but not as nice as the 6e version that they replaced.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#11 Post by Prince of Spires »

Shannar, Sealord wrote:
...I still prefer their 6th/7th edition style...
The Late 5th/6th edition GW fantasy models are some of the nicest models anyone has ever made. I spent a lot of time deployed during 7th ed and early 8th so I don't know when a lot of the changes happened. But I know by the time the 8th ed. Empire book came out of lot of the minis had been replaced by models that were pretty nice, but not as nice as the 6e version that they replaced.
2 causes I see
- one is the switch to plastics. While detail wise the current plastics are great (though I don't like the style, they do manage some great details), it feels like especially the earlier models couldn't get as many fine details in them as with metals. So they ended up a bit bulkier to get some frilly things in there.
- the other is the 40-fiKation of GW models. There is a size creep in WH models, perhaps aided by the need to go all plastic. But in general the size of models is slowly (or rapidly in some cases) increasing. This leads to bulkier and over the top models. But also to the need of adding random bits of armour and other silly parts to the models. I personally find the unarmoured metal HE archers some of the nicest models they've done. They're fairly simple models. But they are lithe and graceful and very elven and don't need a lot of frills added to them. Unlike some of the current models which could as easily just be humans in spiky armour.

It was a gradual thing though, with each release just ever so slightly bigger or bulkier or more 40k then the one before it.
Shannar, Sealord wrote:It's a enjoyable game, one of the better turn mechanics in a miniatures game.
What's so nice about the turn mechanic in this game? Don't know it at all.

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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#12 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

What's so nice about the turn mechanic in this game? Don't know it at all.
For each unit you have you put a die in a bag. Then someone pulls a die out of the bag, if it matches your colour you move a unit of your choice. If it's your opponents color he moves one unit. You simply place the die next to the unit to indicate that it's already moved this turn.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#13 Post by SpellArcher »

Shannar, Sealord wrote: The Late 5th/6th edition GW fantasy models are some of the nicest models anyone has ever made. I spent a lot of time deployed during 7th ed and early 8th so I don't know when a lot of the changes happened. But I know by the time the 8th ed. Empire book came out of lot of the minis had been replaced by models that were pretty nice, but not as nice as the 6e version that they replaced.
I agree, the Colin Dixon Dwarfs for example are lovely. Late 3rd edition, with the great Chaos ranges was also a good time.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#14 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

SpellArcher wrote:
Shannar, Sealord wrote: The Late 5th/6th edition GW fantasy models are some of the nicest models anyone has ever made. I spent a lot of time deployed during 7th ed and early 8th so I don't know when a lot of the changes happened. But I know by the time the 8th ed. Empire book came out of lot of the minis had been replaced by models that were pretty nice, but not as nice as the 6e version that they replaced.
I agree, the Colin Dixon Dwarfs for example are lovely. Late 3rd edition, with the great Chaos ranges was also a good time.
Some of those 3rd/4th edition chaos minis are still great. And the Kev Addams goblins may have been the best of the entire range as well.

Back to WW2 stuff, if you want Polish troops check out Scribors range, I'm quite impressed. Not quite 28mm (1/35 or 1/72 are both available) but they look good.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#15 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

I love Bolt Action, and maybe I have multiple armies, all British or Commonwealth ^_^
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#16 Post by Rhawtir »

Hahah I like the fact that not a single person has commented on my miniatures! Damn you guys, you are hard to please! :D

Oh well, I appreciate the discussion, and I'm kind of a noob when it comes to bolt action, I think I've had two or three games. But so far, it's a lot of fun. More pictures will probably be up tomorrow!
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#17 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

Ah, on that. I like the tank and the crew with it, it's quite well done. I'm not sold on the scene/diorama thing, but that could just be because I'm having a hard time seeing what's going on.
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#18 Post by Rhawtir »

Hmm, it might be that it translates poorly to picture and was not even pictured with any quality camera.. Or just personal taste. Anyway, the thing was my friend got it packaged with only one wheel included, so I modeled it to look like it suffers a hit from a HE-round, illuminating the wounded crew in the explosion.

Anyway, other views of the lot:

Image

Image
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#19 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

That view actually helps, in the original ones with looked like everything had just been washed out with a flash or only painted brownish. It's a pretty good job of the effect you are going for. Still not really my favorite, because my troops can't feel invincible if they start the game already dead :lol:
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#20 Post by SpellArcher »

So is that an early war Panzer 3 with the shorter gun?
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Re: Bolt Action! - WW2 Miniature Game.

#21 Post by Rhawtir »

Yes, me and my friends want the game to be set around 40-42 sometime, when the war is still in the balance. Also, we didn't want some of the more crazy-good units in the game. Altough it turned out the germans are pretty limited mid-war on their anti-tank units. So we'll see how we solve it!
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