2250pts Infantry only or Dragon Mage for Comp'd NZ Tournamen

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Which list should I use

Infantry List
5
56%
Dragon Mage List
3
33%
Something Else
1
11%
 
Total votes: 9

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Kiwi
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2250pts Infantry only or Dragon Mage for Comp'd NZ Tournamen

#1 Post by Kiwi »

Trying to decide between these two lists. First is infantry only which is something I really want to try. It also allows me to include my favourite units/models. Second is based around the Dragon Mage which I would love to take just for the fun of it.

Only real limit is on PD which is generally limited to 9PD for HE with bound items counting as 1

LIST ONE - INFANTRY ONLY

Archmage Lvl 4
- Scroll x2, Silver Wand, Folraiths Robe
Mage Lvl 2
- Ring of Fury
BSB
- DP Kit, Barded Steed, Reaver Bow, Lance
Spears x20
- FC
Archers x10
White Lions x15
- FC, Lion Standard
Phoenix Guarx 18
- FC, War Banner, Gem of Courage
Swordmasters x10
- Musician
Shadow Warriors x5
Shadow Warriors x5
Eagle
Eagle
RBT
RBT

TOTAL 2,249 pts

LIST TWO - THE DRAGON MAGE

Archmage Lvl 4 (w. Spears)
- Jewel, Scroll x2
Dragon Mage Lvl 2
- Wand, Ring of Fury
BSB (w. DP's)
- Barded Steed, DP Kit, Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might, Gem of Courage
Spears x20
- FC, Banner of Arcane Protection
Archers x10
White Lions x15
- FC, Lion Standard
Dragon Princes x7
- FC, War Banner, Amulet of Light
Shadow Warriors x5
Eagle
Eagle
Bolt-Thrower
Bolt-Thrower

TOTAL 2,243

Any Ideas
Keith
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Re: 2250pts Infantry only or Dragon Mage for Comp'd NZ Tournamen

#2 Post by Keith »

I would suggest the infantry list, though i would love to see a chariot in there. possibly drop one unit of shadow warriors.
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Sashimoto
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Re: 2250pts Infantry only or Dragon Mage for Comp'd NZ Tournamen

#3 Post by Sashimoto »

I liked infantry list more. Also, I'm absolutely agree with Keith's proposal about chariot.
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Re: 2250pts Infantry only or Dragon Mage for Comp'd NZ Tournamen

#4 Post by Lord Anathir »

i think you've got the numbers in the infantry list mixed up a bit. I'd lower the lions to 10 or 12 and bump up the swords. The lions are there to lose to combat, but not to run. if a unit charges in and kill 9 lions, the last lion still does his job as well as 100 lions. however the effectiveness of swordmasters goes down as soon as they dont have a maximum front rank. also seeing as they're the only real grindng unit you have that can actually beat both hordes and elites (lions do well against knights but struggle to win alot of block infantry) you might want to boost them to 14. if you have the points to make both units 14/15 that would be ok, but if you have to chose I say give the swords the extra bodies.

I think the bsb would give more to the army if he was on foot with a great weapon and even carrying a basic flag like standard of balance. the reaver bow isnt much help unless you're standing still. when the unit marches more then 5, the mounted bsb still cant shoot regardless of whether he goes 8 or no. The spears can use the great weapon attacks, and putting the mages and bsb in the spears for the first few turns may draw some fire away from your eiltes the first 1 or 2 turns, hoping he can panic your spears + 3 characters early. with balance obviously he cant. horse isnt really necessary, he doesnt have the gear to solo charge out anyways, and its just not quite worth the static power of a great weapon.

the dual shadow warriors i think are too much. even 1 unit is probably too much and I think a couple of tiranoc chariots to hang back and protect the infantry may be better suited.

I think you can shave some points off of stuff to get a 4th character, a naked noble with great weapon to lend some hitting power to the PG, who need it.

robe on the lvl 4 is an ok choice, but as you can see it means your magic phase takes a hit because the lvl 2 has to chose between seer or fury. choosing fury like you did means that the lvl 2's power dice are going to be spent on a spell (likely default) from a lore that has a good default spell (because you wont risk rolling on a polar spell strength lore like beasts for example) instead one of the specialty lores. hence if you come up against a dragon or monster list instead of taking a high damage lore on the lvl 4 (like fire or death) or something with high spell values (shadow) you are more likely to stick him with beasts, because the lvl 2 doesnt have seer to take beast cowers/wolf's hunt and free up the lvl 4 for something big.
the alternative option is swapping ring for seer but then you lose your bound item. you could stick the ring on the bsb, which would probably be a better choice then the reaver bow.

also in terms of command... spears only need a flag, lions only need a flag (they're just there to lose combat remember), PG dont need a champ or 6 wide (keep em narrow so support units like spears or chariots can have the space to clip counter charge and support without giving the enemy unit many models to hit them back with), and if you're running a floater balance bsb the swords dont need any command at all because if youre facing a fear army the bsb can jump with them if youre afraid theyre going to get lose and outnumbered.

lvl 4, 360 your choice on mage items, my comments are above, full item allowance allotted.
lvl 2, 185
bsb, gw, da, bsb, balance 169
noble, gw, da, loec 109
20 spears, sb 190
10 archers 110
12 lions, sb, lion standard 217
14 swords 210
15 PG, sb, warbanner 257
lion chariot 140
2 rbt 200
2 eagles 100

2247
those are the changes Id make, without changing the basic form and feel of your army (thats your choice).
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Flame of the Asuryan
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Re: 2250pts Infantry only or Dragon Mage for Comp'd NZ Tournamen

#5 Post by Flame of the Asuryan »

One of the best infantry units I guess there is, is 14 Swordmasters with Banner of Balance and a Talisman of Loec champion.

It catches everything, even chaos knights, Cold one riders and Hydra's. Just decide correctly when using talisman of loec :D .
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Kiwi
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Re: 2250pts Infantry only or Dragon Mage for Comp'd NZ Tournamen

#6 Post by Kiwi »

Ok guys thanks for the advice fair bit to think about. Reasoning behind some of the units in my original list was as follows:

Phoenix Guard
Get Warbanner and Gem of Courage to really ensure that they stick around. They are never going to kill alot of people at S4, but Warbanner at the very least allows them to improve their CR and Gem means if they do have to make a poor break test they have a better chance of sticking around. I use these guys to hold the centre of my line against tougher enemy units - not to kill people.

White Lions
I prefer blocks of 15 to improve CR. A unit of 10-12 can work, and I have seen it, but to me its opening you up to have the unit whittled down by missile fire to easily in the opening turns. Lion Standard on these guys instead of Spears (as I normally) do makes them like Dwarf Hammerers with a Lord or Rune of Courage. Stubborn and ITF units do not run.

Shadow Warriors
Two units in an infantry list to help secure flanks and to re-direct enemy charges away from the slower moving main infantry line. I only have 3 infantry units and I need to get them into combat quickly. SW help you do that. They also act as a nice screen against enemy shooting.

----

However taking all of this, and your points, into consideration how does the following list look going with Infantry only.

Archmage Lvl 4
- Scroll, Folraiths, Silver Wand
Mage Lvl 2
- Seerstaff, Scroll
BSB
- Barded Steed, DP Kit, GW, Helm of Fortune

Spears x20
- FC, Lion Banner
Archers x10
White Lions x15
- FC
Phoenix Guard x17
- FC, Gem of Courage, War Banner
Swordmasters x14
- Mu, Champion w. Loec
Lion Chariot
Eagle
Eagle
RBT
RBT

TOTAL 2,250pts

I like to keep the War Banner on the PG for reasons stated above. Ring of Fury on BSB would be nice, but he also needs protection and 2+ isnt really enough nowadays but I could swap the Helm out for the Ring. Loec on Bladelord is an intriguing idea and one I will be keen to give a try.

How would you work in, and would you, Sacred Incense to protect Swordmasters a little more???
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