My first tournament list - 2250 points

[Bel-Hathe]

I have been heavily influenced by a recent list by Prince Asuryan for a balanced list [url]http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 29576/[url]. I have been playing the game since the beginning of the year and wanted a list that will be forgiving and develop the areas that have worked for me.

Prince
Armour of Caledor, Vambrances of Defence, Gem of Courage

Noble
Battle Standard Bearer, Barded elven steed, Halberd, Heavy armour, Helm of Fortune, Guardian Phoenix

Mage
Level 2, elven steed, Ring of Corin, Dispel Scroll, SIlver wand

Mage
Level 1, 2 Dispel Scrolls

Core

18 Spearmen
Full Command, Lion Standard

10 Archers
(Naked)

Special
17 White Lions of Chrace
Full Command, Standard Of Balance, Amulet of Light

White Lion Chariot
White Lion Chariot

5 Dragon Princes
Full Command, Banner of Ellyrion, Dragonhorn

Rare
Great Eagle
Great Eagle
Repeater Bolt Thrower
Repeater Bolt Thrower

2250 points exactly, model count 60

My experience to date is that I need to divide the enemy army to conquer it and I prefer to use Eagles to gain a positional advantage not hunt war machines or mages.

Battle plan is to deploy the White Lion Chariots and one Eagle towards one flank. I hope that the 2 chariots will draw one or more elite units away from the main body and the eagle will help protect the chariots. The remainder of my army will be deployed on the other flank (whichever provides best flank cover and channels the enemy towards my two strong blocks - the movie '300' inspires all small elite armies!).

The Dragon Princes will hang back to provide flank protection and counter-attack threat. They are vulnerable to a flying terror causer hence the Banner of Ellyrion (to hide in woods) and the Dragon horn.

The mounted mage will join the DPs initially and the other the Archers. For magic I was thinking of High Magic and primarily casting Drain Magic to try and close down an opposition who has gone magic heavy. I might be tempted to let one mage take Metal against an armoured army. I have never tried the Ring of Corin but just love thinking about the look on the face of an opponent who has based their army around one magic item. Does anybody favour the Annulian Crystal (take one of the opponent's power dice and add it to your dispel dice) instead of 2 scrolls?

My first attempt tried to get in 14 Lothern Sea Guard in place of the Archers but I could not find the points. My thinking with the LSG is that they would provide more protection for the bolt throwers or if needed join the main fight on the flank of an enemy unit.

[kelevandros]

I have been heavily influenced by a recent list by Prince Asuryan for a balanced list [url]http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 29576/[url]. I have been playing the game since the beginning of the year and wanted a list that will be forgiving and develop the areas that have worked for me.


Changes in bold


Prince
Armour of Caledor, Vambrances of Defence, Gem of Courage
This guy doesnt really need to be a prince, he could get by as just a noble. He needs a Great weapon, Dragon Armor and Talisman Of Loec instead of Gem Of Courage. Common setups include The white Sword, or Reaver Bowm depending on your playstyle

Noble
Battle Standard Bearer, Barded elven steed, Halberd, Heavy armour, Helm of Fortune, Guardian Phoenix
Dont Know where he is supposed to go? If he is going with the Dp's your suffering from a eggs in one basket unit that may get focused too heavily on. Recommend unmounting and giving him the the Armor of Caledor/guardian Phoenix combo

Mage
Level 2, elven steed, Ring of Corin, Dispel Scroll, SIlver wand
Well first off he is illegal, with two arcane items and over his limit.
Recommend this guy becomes a Lvl 4 with Silver wand, 2 x dispel scrolls and a Ring Of Fury

Mage
Level 1, 2 Dispel Scrolls
Upgrade him to Level 2, Give him Seerstaff+ 1 dispell scroll and your golden.
Core

18 Spearmen
Full Command, Lion Standard
Find the points for 19 ( 5x4) guys. Foot noble with white sword here, providing the LD boost and the ability to handle hit spirits and generate some kills for CR.

10 Archers
(Naked)


Special
17 White Lions of Chrace
Full Command, Standard Of Balance, Amulet of Light
Drop these down to 14 guys BSB here, give the champ the Gem of Courage


White Lion Chariot
White Lion Chariot

5 Dragon Princes
Full Command, Banner of Ellyrion, Dragonhorn
If you can find the points make these 6 guys

Rare
Great Eagle
Great Eagle
Repeater Bolt Thrower
Repeater Bolt Thrower
If necessary Drop one of the eagles to pay for something else.

2250 points exactly, model count 60

My experience to date is that I need to divide the enemy army to conquer it and I prefer to use Eagles to gain a positional advantage not hunt war machines or mages.

Battle plan is to deploy the White Lion Chariots and one Eagle towards one flank. I hope that the 2 chariots will draw one or more elite units away from the main body and the eagle will help protect the chariots. The remainder of my army will be deployed on the other flank (whichever provides best flank cover and channels the enemy towards my two strong blocks - the movie '300' inspires all small elite armies!).

The Dragon Princes will hang back to provide flank protection and counter-attack threat. They are vulnerable to a flying terror causer hence the Banner of Ellyrion (to hide in woods) and the Dragon horn.

The mounted mage will join the DPs initially and the other the Archers. For magic I was thinking of High Magic and primarily casting Drain Magic to try and close down an opposition who has gone magic heavy. I might be tempted to let one mage take Metal against an armoured army. I have never tried the Ring of Corin but just love thinking about the look on the face of an opponent who has based their army around one magic item. Does anybody favour the Annulian Crystal (take one of the opponent's power dice and add it to your dispel dice) instead of 2 scrolls?

My first attempt tried to get in 14 Lothern Sea Guard in place of the Archers but I could not find the points. My thinking with the LSG is that they would provide more protection for the bolt throwers or if needed join the main fight on the flank of an enemy unit.

[SpellArcher]

The list as a whole looks pretty sound. Bit by bit...

I agree with kelevandros about the Great Weapon on the Prince. Other than that I think he's pretty sound. Ld10 can be very useful and he's a bit better than a Noble in combat. BSB looks Ok I assume he goes with the infantry?

I agree that the magic needs re-jigging. You have five power dice as it stands which means you won't get many spells off against even mediocre defences. Prince Asuryan's build pretty much abandons spellcasting in favour of total scroll defence. I would either do the same or upgrade the level 1 and take the Banner of Sorcery on the Dragon Princes. I'd trust Ld9 for a one-off Terror test if you have to. You also have the option to switch the Prince's Vambraces for the Guardian Phoenix, which would give you the points to take the Radiant Gem of Hoeth. The BSB would then take the Vambraces and drop the Helm.

Equipment-wise I'd give the Silver Wand to your scroll mage, assuming he is upgraded. Annulian Crystal can be a good item after you have a solid base of scrolls. For the other mage though I'd go more offensive, taking the Seerstaff so you can be sure of effective spells to cast. The horse is risky and only worth doing if you intend to be getting spells through.

Your units look largely sound and I agree with most of kelevandros' comments. A unit of 10 LSG can work well with RBT's.

[dabber]

Mage
Level 2, elven steed, Ring of Corin, Dispel Scroll, SIlver wand

No can do. Corin is an arcane item, so is Silver Wand.

5 power dice isn't enough to do something magically. You'd likely do the same with 4 power dice casting 2x2 drain magic each turn.

[Bel-Hathe]

Thank you for your replies.

I am embarrassed to have missed the rule prohibiting 2 arcane items. Luckily I have lost the only games where I have breached that rule and so need not feel too much shame. But even still ...

I have decided to try the build without a Lord. One reason for this is that my group are preparing for a couple of 1999 point tournaments before I play in my first tournament. I think I can trim the 2250 points to 1999 without completely changing how the army will play (I will keep the BSB which will make a mage the General, unfortunate because it adds nothing to leadership) .

I can visualise my play style with this army and think it will be fun for me and my opponent; I will have to play test it and see how well it stands up. If I struggle with this list I have time to try an Archmage list or Prince on Star Dragon.

Noble
Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix,
(The General will sit in the White Lions so that his attacks count as magical)

Noble
Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon armour, White Sword, Talisman of Loec
(The BSB will sit in the Spears. I have also considered giving the BSB the Battle Standard that gives D6 combat res and arming the General with the White sword - I will try this if I find I lose my rank bonus because I cannot protect the flank of the Spears or too many die through shooting and magic)

Mage
Level 2, Dispel Scroll, Dispel Scroll, Silver wand
(This mage will sit in the Spears and likely take High magic because I think I am right that he can cast Shield of Saphery and Drain Magic, both spells I can always have, even whilst the unit is in close combat)

Mage
Level 2, Dispel Scrolls, Seerstaff
(This mage will sit in the LSG and will use the Seerstaff to choose spells that are not short range; my group play a lot of WoC and I am thinking of spells such as (from Heaven's) Uranon's Thunder Bolt which is a LOS-but-no-range spell that causes D6 S4 damage with no armour saves and the re-roll spell, which I can use to re-roll missed bolt thrower shots or when rolling to wound with the White sword)

Core

20 Spearmen
Full Command, Lion Standard

14 LSG
Shields
(These will protect the bolt throwers as best they can)

Special
14 White Lions of Chrace
Full Command, Standard Of Balance, Amulet of Light

White Lion Chariot
White Lion Chariot (or possibly 6 Silver helms without command but with shields for 2 less points - I have the models but would need to buy another chariot and they are more resilient to shooting)

(The chariot(s), Helms and DPs will be assigned roles supporting the infantry or drawing a critical mass of enemy units away from my front line - I will have to live in hope of playing other noobs at the tournament)

6 Dragon Princes
Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Gem of Courage

Rare

Great Eagle
Great Eagle
Repeater Bolt Thrower
Repeater Bolt Thrower

2246 points, model count 64

Now time to try and organise a game

[SpellArcher]

Don't worry about missing the illegal combo. Very experienced players do this now and then. 1999 doesn't sound like much fun to me but it's getting more popular and I can see the point in getting a list you can run anywhere.

The problem with giving the foot BSB the Battle Banner is that he dies too easily, so the Banner rarely has an effect. At least with the White Sword combo he is reducing who can strike back at him. I guess you could be flank charged and still use the Battle Banner but it's less likely than being charged frontally.

I like your Mage set-ups and likely choice of lores though you may need to be flexible on this. I'd recommend moving the Wand guy out of the unit before it reaches the enemy. He will die horribly otherwise.

Units are sound I think.

[PapaElf]

Hi,
Welcome to the forum, hoping you find whatever you might be looking for. Without further ado, I too favor a balanced list and have just completed play testing the list that I intend to take to the Memorial Day gaming convention and RTT fantasy tournament in my area. In my opinion, your list is very strong for a beginning player, and your apparent grasp of tactics is even stronger. I naturally favor my list over yours, so I intend to illustrate the differences by showing the lists in comparison, and let you decide for yourself on whatever changes, if any, you might want to consider.

CHARACTERS -

• Your list #1
  • Prince - General, Armor of Caledor, Vanbraces of Defense, Gem of Courage - 240 points
    Noble on Barded Steed - BSB, Halberd, Heavy Armor, Helm of Fortune, Guardian Phoenix - 184 points
    Mage level 2 on Barded Steed - Dispel Scrolls x2, Silver Wand - 201 points
    Mage level 1 - Ring of Corin, Dispel Scroll - 140 points. Note, I flip-flopped your mages giving the Wand to the level 2, making their items legal.
    Character Total - 765 points
  Your liist #2
  • Noble - General, Great Weapon, Armor of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix - 142 points
    Noble - BSB, Dragon Armor, White Sword, Talisman of Loec - 166
    Mage level 2 - Dispel Scrolls x2, Silver Wand - 185 points
    Mage level 2 - SeerStaff of Saphrey, Dispel Scroll - 185 points
    Character Total - 679 points
  My list
  • Noble - General, Armor of Caledor, Great Weapon, Guardian Phoenix - 142 points
    Noble on Barded Steed - BSB, Heavy Armor, Shield, Sword of Might, Helm of Fortune, Gem of Courage - 182 points
    Archmage level 3 - Seerstaff of Saphrey, dispel Scrolls x3 - 315 points
    Character Total - 640 points
  Compare
  • Magic Defense
    • List 1 - Four dispel dice, three scrolls
      List 2 - Four dispel dice, three scrolls
      My list - Four dispel dice, three scrolls
    Magic offense
    • List 1 - Five power dice, Select three spells at random
      List 2 - Six power dice, Banner of Sorcery, three spells at random, two spells of choice
      My list - Five power dice, Banner of Sorcery, three spells of choice
    Combat - General
    • list 1 - Armor Save 2+ re-rollable, Ward Save 4+, Fights at Strength 4
      List 2 - Armor Save 2+, Ward Save 5+, Fights at Strength 6
      My List - Armor Save 2+, Ward Save 5+, Fights at Strength 6
    Combat - BSB
    • list 1 -Armor Save 2+ re-rollable, Ward Save 5+, Fights at Strength 5
      List 2 - Armor Save 5+, Fights at Strength 6 with Talisman of Loec
      My list _Armor Save 1+ re-rollable, Fights at Strength 5
  CORE SELECTIONS -
  • Your List 1
    • SpearElves x18 - Full Command, Lion Standard - 212 points
      Archers x10 - 110 points
      Core Total - 312 points
    Your list 2
    • Spear Elves x 20 - Full Command, Lion Standard - 230 points
      Lothern Sea Guard x14 - Shields - 182 points
      Core Total - 412 points
    My List
    • Archers x10 - 110 points
      Archers x10 - 110 points
      Core Total - 220 points
  SPECIAL SELECTIONS -
  • Your list 1
    • White Lions x17 - Full Command, Standard of Balance, Amulet of light - 345 points
      Dragon Princes x 5 - Full command, Banner of Ellyrian, Dragonhorn - 240 points
      Lion Chariot - 140 points
      Lion Chariot - 140 points
      Special Total - 1065 points
    Your List 2
    • White Lions x14 - Full Command, Standard of Balance, Amulet of light - 300 points
      Dragon Princes x 6 - Full command, Banner of Sorcery, Gem of Courage - 290 points
      Lion Chariot - 140 points
      Lion Chariot - 140 points
      Special Total - 870 points
    My list
    • Phoenix Guard x23 - Full command, Banner of Sorcery, Amulet of Light - 440 points Embed General Here
      Dragon Princes x5 - Full command, Standard of Balance, Enchanted Shield, 255 points Embed BSB Here
      Dragon Princes x6 - Standard Bearer, Lion Standard - 225 points
      Tiranoc Chariot - 85 points
      Tiranoc Chariot - 85 points
      Special Total - 1090 points
  RARE SELECTIONS -
  • All Lists
    • Great Eagle - 50 points
      Great Eagle - 50 points
      Repeating Bolt Thrower - 100 points
      Repeating Bolt Thrower - 100 points
      Rare Total - 300 points All three lists are the same

I found List 2 to be eleven points over. However my baised opinion is that I have the stronger attrition melee unit, Phoenix Guard verses spears, faster support, better light artillery (archers) and psychology defense while different is pretty much a push. We both have both psychology banners, I have Phoenix guard, you have Lion Chariots and Dragon Horn. I want the Dragon horn, but can't find the points to buy it. You have the talisman of loec, which I don't care for, but it has it's followers. All things considered the lists are very similar and you should do just fine with yours.

[Bel-Hathe]

PapaElf, thank you for your comments and good luck in your tournament. I would be very interested to hear what worked and what didn't.

I must check my spreadsheet for points - I am not so good at Excel and should have stuck to paper and pencil!

Where does the Archmage go in your build as I would expect that one wizard would be a very tempting target for the enemy. I am going to think about whether any nice traps could be set if the Archmage took Shadows and Steeded himself out of danger!