In preparation for the ETC 2009

[Marinero]

Greetings,

This weekend we are travelling to a friendly tournament with the Greek national team, as part of their preparation for their participation at the ETC 2009. We do not know if we will be sending our team to Germany, as we have trouble with participation. We have applied for a joint team with the friends from Serbia, but we have not an answer yet.

Anyway, here are the rules for the tourney:

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic ... 18&t=54054

Here is my list:

* Lord, AoC, VoD, ToL, halberd - 616
* Dragon Mage, lvl 2, silver wand, 2xdispel scrolls - 435

* 10 archers - 110
* 10 archers - 110

* 6 Dragon Princes, sb, mus, Banner of Ellyrion - 215
* 6 Dragon Princes, FC, Amulet of Light, Lion Banner - 270
* Lion Chariot - 140
* Tyranoc Chariot - 85

* 2xRBT - 200
* Great Eagle - 50

Total: 2241

I have met all the requirements - max 3 fliers, max 2 special choices, max 2 rare for the HE, I am within the limits for warmachines, chariots, etc.

The rules for the tournament are terrible for magic heavy armies, and thus I have opted for the dual dragon list, because it is great fun. The restrictions on shooting and magic will allow my dragons to survive more easily.

So, what do you think? Comments, suggestions?

M

[Prince_Asuryan]

* Lord, AoC, VoD, ToL, halberd - 616

Loec is against such a good armour save, and not the best item really. The Dragon should do enough damage without it's help. I'd get the gem of courage. You forgot to mention the Dragon

* Dragon Mage, lvl 2, silver wand, 2xdispel scrolls - 435

Meh, if you want him.

* 10 archers - 110
* 10 archers - 110

Sure.

* 6 Dragon Princes, sb, mus, Banner of Ellyrion - 215
* 6 Dragon Princes, FC, Amulet of Light, Lion Banner - 270
* Lion Chariot - 140
* Tyranoc Chariot - 85

Ok.

* 2xRBT - 200
* Great Eagle - 50

Yup

Total: 2241

Looks good to me.

[Malhandir's Feed]

As you have the points wouldn't a Great Weapon be better just in case the dragon gets killed? Also, wouldn't a lance be better on a dragon?

[SpellArcher]

Yeah I too lol'd at the number '616' indicating that a Star Dragon was present!

[jimma]

The etc restrictions doesnt really cripple HE / DE that much, guess we will be seeing alot of dragons there.

This is not against you but are people not getting tired of fielding the damn drago?
There are tons of fun infantry lists to play that really works, i played star dragon for 30+ matches and i really got tired of it, doesnt take as much from me to play such a list compared to a infantry / trixy list

But thats just my oppinion..

This is a bit off topic but i really do belive that DE has a pretty strong solid base to build around magic even with the ETC restrictions, tried out to play a few games with the new DE list and the restrictions and i seem to be getting were i want with the magic still.

Oh well good luck, i think your list should be strong enough, i dont like the dragon mage and i really dont like 2 dragons, id rather see a bsb and a scroll caddy but thats just my playstyle ^^

[gamey]

I now agree with the above post about taking the Gem of Courage over ToL and AoL.

I was debating all the way into a recent tourament whether I was going to use the talisom of loec, amulet of light, or gem of courage as the best complementary item to the hard to kill lord (VofD, AoC combo.) I ended up running the lord with VofD, Aoc, Halbred, and AoL.

Here is some rationale for the various options:

1 - Amulet of light: Gives your very mobile hard hitting lord and dragon "counts as magic attacks" for that crusty hard to kill ethereal/hit by magic only unit

2 - Talisman of Loec: Give your lord that over the top combat round to "gaurantee" a bunch of wounds

3 - Gem of Courage: Give your lord that staying power if and when he needs to take a leadership test

This weekend in the tournament I was in, I broke from combat once and was run off the board once on failed leadership checks of 9 (rolled 12) and 8 (can't remember the roll.) It was too late to change my submitted list, but I had considered adding the ToL thinking I might need it to take on a tough combat lord. I was kitted out with the Amulet of Light, but never ran into a situation where I needed the magic attacks. I now believe that the Gem of Courage is the way to go and here is why.

Case 1 - The Amulet of Light should be given to another mobile unit like the dragon princes. The chance that your Lord is best used chasing down a specific hit-by-magic only unit seems low. You want the lord with the maximum tactical options and giving him the amulet of light means your are dictating his role in certain situations where you may want more tactical freedom for him. In the future, one of my DP units will carry the Amulet.

Case 2 - While the ToL on the dragon is way to gaurantee more wounds, I believe that you are less likely to know when you need it than when you don't. For example, I fought a simple unit of skeletons with a casty vamp lord in it and rolled great each round against the unit. I only needed to put 3 wounds a round from 10 attacks on a bunch of skeletons to overcome the static CR for the combat. When would I use the ToL in that situation? The first round, the second?? What happened was I whittled my way through the unit and when I and my opponent thought the whole thing was all but over... whifff. I rolled badly and lost the combat by one. Then I rolled 12 on my leadership check and off the board I went. Goodbye Lord and Dragon. Now imagine that I had the Gem. I roll as before and when luck fails me, I can immediately utilize my item at the critical moment that I need it. (Of course, lady luck could still screw me, but maybe she wouldn't have the stamina the second time around and I would outlast her.)

Case 3 - But, what about when you know you are going to need the ToL for that critical first round against the bloodthirster, hyrda, combat vamp lord and so on? My feeling is that while the ToL may help in that situation, the Dragon and Lord are already tooled to be close to or equal to these combat lords and that if and only if you roll poorly, then you need the Gem again.

Case 3 favors the ToL a little over the Gem, but given the other more general combat scenarios like case 2, I now think I will run the Lord on Dragon with the Gem. (I haven't played it thirty times yet, so I still like it.)

Best of luck. Please post battle reports and any insights you gain.

[Marinero]

Hey guys, thanks for the comments, indeed there is a star dragon .

As you have the points wouldn't a Great Weapon be better just in case the dragon gets killed? Also, wouldn't a lance be better on a dragon?
quote]
Good point on the GW, though I have yet to lose the SD and to have the prince wandering on foot. On the lance vs halberd/GW debate I am in the halberd/GW camp, as S5 in cases of prolonged combat is really handy. The only time that I take a lance on the SD prince is when he needs a shield for extra protection.

Meh, if you want him.

Actually, I do want to try this type of list again, the last time I used it was in March 2008, I am sort of nostalgic about it. I know that 2 lvl 2 are a way better set up for a stardragon list, but I think I am in a mood to experiment.

@jimma - well, I am not a compulsive stardragon player. I use different list all the time, as I like to experiment certain aspects of the army ot follow my whims. I recently am playing a balanced army led by a lvl4, lvl2 and a BSB, with the ring of fury and the banner of sorcery. However, the restrictions of the ETC do not allow for more than 9 PD, so magic is off for me.

I am beginning to feel the pull to do a seafarer/reaver bow army supported by 2 lvl 2s, so I guess that will be the next one I will do

@gamey - Very good analyzis of the 3 items that can be given to the prince. I personally think that the AoL is best on a fast unit, so I prefer to give it to the DPs. On the GoC vs ToL I understand your reasoning, and I agree with you. However, I prefer the certainty, that should necessity arise, I would be able to kill anything, so I have come to stick with it. Maybe if I have experience like yours and see my SD run off the board with tail between the legs, I may consider, but for now I prefer the other option.

I will post battle reports when I return next week, so we will see how it went and what went wrong

[Marinero]

Unfortunately, our hosts cancelled the event today, so the ETC practice is cancelled. However, I did manage to get one game with this list. Here is the battle report:
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=29562

We decided to hold a tournament at our club this weekend instead, but using the standard rules for compositioned events.

I will be taking a 2500 balanced HE force there instead of the 2 dragons.

Here is the list:
* Archmage, lvl 4, silverwand, ring of fury, 2xdispel scrolls - 350
* Mage, lvl 2, seerstaff, dispel scroll - 185
* Noble, Armour of Caledor, Dragon horn - 143
* Noble, BSB, da, sh, barded steed, Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might - 184

* 10 Archers - 110
* 20 Spears, FC, Lion Banner - 230

* 15 Phoenix Guards, sb, champ, Warbanner - 269
* 6 Dragon Princes, sb, Banner of Sorcery - 250
* 6 Dragon Princes, sb, Banner of Ellyrion - 215
* Lion Chariot - 140
* Tyranoc Charior - 85
* Tyranoc Charior - 85

* RBT - 100
* RBT - 100
* Great Eagle - 50

Total: 2496

[SpellArcher]

Looks pretty sound.

What is the Noble with the Horn's job?

Please don't say "To blow it!"

[Marinero]

Well, he has 2 functions:
1. To give the spears the much needed punch. A spear regiment with a character is quite reliable and does multiple jobs well.
2. I face a lot of fear causing armies, so his job is to use the horn in the turn in which I plan to make combo charge with my chariots and DPs (as my anchors are immune to fear, so at least I need not worry about them in this respect)

If this set up turns out redundant or not as useful as I plan, I will try one of these 2 combos:
1. noble, armour of protecction great weapon - 138
2. noble, da, sh, barded steed, star lance, talisman on loect - as anti-coach/altar/knights solution