Poisonblade and his death

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WarpPhoenix
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Poisonblade and his death

#1 Post by WarpPhoenix »

Skimming through the Dark Elf army book and reading their (quite skewed) opinion on how things went down at the battle of Finuval plain they seem to not mention at all the death of their beloved champion Urian Poisonblade at the hands of our blazing Tyrion.

They make mention of him several times and referrance his appearance at the battle at the beginning, but they skip the whole challenge that Urian made at the start of the battle where he killed one of our veterans and one of the first captains of the White Lions, only to be cut down by Tyrion, which was the start of the battle.

I find it funny, reading both accounts of what happened that day, that this wasnt mentioned in their book. I also enjoy the subtle yet screaming agony felt which made them cover this up.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#2 Post by VictorK »

I find that the best source for the 'canon' version of events in Warhammer history remains the fifth edition army books. 7th is a lot better than 6th, whose admirable attempt to tell things from the perspective of the army whose book was on display, often did so at the price of a thorough and full accounting.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#3 Post by Ruerl Khan »

And the 5th edition DE book also have an account of how he was cut down by Tyrion. The agony must be from that Tyrion was'nt the better fighter, just much better equipped.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#4 Post by Prince_Asuryan »

He DID still get stabbed though :P

But yes, he was a better fighter - technically, Tyrion was still nothing but a noble. He god his position during the battle after.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#5 Post by Elaithnir »

The agony must be from that Tyrion was'nt the better fighter, just much better equipped.
Lies! Damned lies! Everyone knows Tyrion is the finest warrior in this age of the world. Dark Elf propaganda...;)
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#6 Post by WarpPhoenix »

The way that assassins get created for the dark elves means khaine has a hand in their creation? (Arnt they thrown into a boiling cauldron and the serviving babies get raised as assassins?) So really id say Poisonblade was aided by his god all throughout his life, and with the help of the witch kings magic that makes a pretty good fighter.

But you cant say he was nothing but a noble, because the captain of the white lions at the time (more than a noble) couldnt stand for more than a few minutes against Urian. I guess the golden armour helped against all the blows that Urian landed on Tyrion but regardless, I couldnt help but smirk on the train home when I read the passage on this particular fight.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#7 Post by Prince_Asuryan »

WarpPhoenix wrote:But you cant say he was nothing but a noble, because the captain of the white lions at the time (more than a noble) couldnt stand for more than a few minutes against Urian. I guess the golden armour helped against all the blows that Urian landed on Tyrion but regardless, I couldnt help but smirk on the train home when I read the passage on this particular fight.
I mean in terms of the Sword Training he would have received - Korhain would still have been a better fighter than Tyrion I expect. Tyrion would basically have been a HE Prince with all his magic doo-hickeys. His Ws, I etc will have gone up after training with Hallar.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#8 Post by lathian »

Elaithnir wrote:
The agony must be from that Tyrion was'nt the better fighter, just much better equipped.
Lies! Damned lies! Everyone knows Tyrion is the finest warrior in this age of the world. Dark Elf propaganda...;)
IIRC, he's not even the finest high elf warrior this age of the world.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#9 Post by Aethyr »

lathian wrote:
Elaithnir wrote:
The agony must be from that Tyrion was'nt the better fighter, just much better equipped.
Lies! Damned lies! Everyone knows Tyrion is the finest warrior in this age of the world. Dark Elf propaganda...;)
IIRC, he's not even the finest high elf warrior this age of the world.
And who is? Doesnt matter who you say is, Korhil will fu... kill them.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#10 Post by lathian »

Hallar is the obvious one, but considering how often he gets his ass near kicked in, I'd imagine some nameless mook who is an excellent fighter but poor general living in Caledor would also best him.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#11 Post by Aethyr »

In what edition do we hear from hellar. I know he was the best swordmaster but little else of him.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#12 Post by lathian »

You're better of asking Eldy, but I do believe if was in one of the novels. Possibly the Gileads blood series, which I detest.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#13 Post by Arellion Sapher »

I like Gilead's blood...

Although I very much enjoyed the 6th Edition accounts of race history, there was far too little actual chronology. Had they given a full and complete account in terms of timeline, then it would have been a more worthwhile result than it actually was. I ended up having to turn to the Dark Elf army book on repeated occasions just to learn about the period between Caledor the Warrior and Finubar the Seafarer.
Having written to Jervis Johnson on the subject of Games Workshop's commercialised image these days, I'm bound to say I have to agree with his later assertion that we are in a 'fluff golden age'. I am very pleased with our current background section. As for Poisonblade, it's probably just as well he's gone. I recall an illustation of the fellow a few editions back. The 'master of assassins' was wearing full Druchii Plate and had a massive shield. So much for Tyrion being tooled.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#14 Post by VictorK »

Arellion Sapher wrote:Having written to Jervis Johnson on the subject of Games Workshop's commercialised image these days
...As opposed to what? They are a company...
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#15 Post by cidracin »

Maybe this should be in antoher topic but who is Hellar? :?: And why would he be considered a better warrior than Tyrion?
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#16 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

cidracin wrote:Maybe this should be in antoher topic but who is Hellar? :?: And why would he be considered a better warrior than Tyrion?
Hallar is captain of the Swordmasters and Tyrion's teacher.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#17 Post by cidracin »

To be honest I never knew that the Swordmasters had a capatain. Although Eltharion was leading them after he was blinded. I never heard of Hallar before now in any fluff, novels, or army books(although I started playing in 6th edition) I'd think the character would feature mor prominitly if he was Ulthuan's greatest warrior.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#18 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

He's mentioned briefly in the 5th edition, where Tyrion is looking over his forces, leading a group of Swordmasters. There's also a lot of rumors that the special character Aenur, the Sword of Twilight is Hallar - that may be the reason why he's not represented as a special character - Eltharion surpassed him and embarrassed him, and Hallar took the name Aenur in disgrace. Being called The Sword of Twilight, that might even make sense. It's not concrete, but most allusions in the fluff are.

Tyrion is also described as the greatest warrior, and I wouldn't be surprised if he surpassed Hallar. Another way of looking at it is that Tyrion is the greatest soldier, in that he's better at leading troops and strategy and tactics, as well as carrying loads of special gear - even though Tyrion is the better overall warrior, Hallar is greater in technical skill.

If's and but's really... I'm not arguing for or against Hallar being a better warrior. There isn't much point in it as not much is written about him, while there's plenty written about how great Tyrion is. :3
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#19 Post by Musashi »

The highest WS is 10 and Tyrion is 9, so someone could reach that pinnacle. Don't recall off-hand what blind Eltharion had.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#20 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

I don't recall Eltharion's WS either... his rules were printed in WD and on the GW website for a long time if I remember correctly.

Also, http://www.mordheimer.com/dramatis_pers ... _aenur.htm

Reading Aenur's Mordheim stats again, he's a Noble level character (this would fit in line with the other High Elf Captains, who are also Nobles.) armed with a sword that has increased chance to critical hit. If Aenur is Hallar, then it would make sense that Eltharion and Tyrion surpassed him... but you could also represent him very easily with just the The White Sword on a Noble.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#21 Post by Musashi »

Arsanil is Noble and WS 7; Imrik is 8.

If Hallar gets surpassed, his WS couldn't be more than 8.

Or he might actually have WS 9, but a lower I.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#22 Post by DarkTyrany22 »

I like the nameless mook theory. Consider me subscribed.

Poisonblade was so much better, more skilled, etc. etc.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#23 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

Musashi wrote:If Hallar gets surpassed, his WS couldn't be more than 8.

Or he might actually have WS 9, but a lower I.
I agree with you completely, barring one thing - the current 7th edition fluff is actually a 'step back in time' with the current rules for Eltharion being an earlier incarnation of his modern self - find out what his WS and I is when he was blind Eltharion, and you can make an accurate guess as to what WS Hallar is/was during 6th edition. :3

If it's the same as it is now, IE Eltharion at WS 8 and I 8, then Mordheim Aenur/Hallar would make sense, being WS 8 and I 7, and Eltharion could be stronger and could have disgraced Aenur and caused him to go running off to Mordheim.

Then you get into the whole timeline thing... the events in Mordheim were, what? 500 years ago from the present time? When did Eltharion lose his eyes and take up training in the White Tower?

Haha, this is kind of fun... Warhammer detective work.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#24 Post by Eldacar »

~Milliardo~ wrote:Tyrion is also described as the greatest warrior, and I wouldn't be surprised if he surpassed Hallar. Another way of looking at it is that Tyrion is the greatest soldier, in that he's better at leading troops and strategy and tactics, as well as carrying loads of special gear - even though Tyrion is the better overall warrior, Hallar is greater in technical skill.
Hallar is generally seen as a truly brilliant and one of a kind duelist/combatant, but he's far too arrogant to be all that good at leading an army. Which is likely one of the reasons why Tyrion commanded that army to retake the Blighted Isle as opposed to Hallar - Tyrion's a better soldier and leader (and Supreme Commander of Ulthuan's armies under Finubar, whereas Hallar is just the captain of the Swordmasters). Whatever he gives up in dueling skill is compensated for in his leadership skills or his equipment (which surpasses Hallar's own weapons, obviously).
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#25 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

Is... isn't that pretty much what I just wrote? I actually think I was quoting you from some other topic. :?
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#26 Post by Eldacar »

~Milliardo~ wrote:Is... isn't that pretty much what I just wrote?
*shrug*

You left out the reference to the Blighted Isle campaign.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#27 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

He's mentioned briefly in the 5th edition, where Tyrion is looking over his forces, leading a group of Swordmasters.
Nope! Didn't! :3

Yours was more comprehensive though, granted. Is he mentioned in any other fluff or stories besides that? That and the specious Mordheim reference is the only info on him I have.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#28 Post by Eldacar »

~Milliardo~ wrote:
He's mentioned briefly in the 5th edition, where Tyrion is looking over his forces, leading a group of Swordmasters.
Nope! Didn't! :3
Hardly specific, you'd have to admit.
Is he mentioned in any other fluff or stories besides that? That and the specious Mordheim reference is the only info on him I have.
He's basically been all but completely ignored since the advent of 6th edition. Short of GW reprinting the Tyrion-Blighted-Isle story in WD #265 or so, he's gotten essentially no attention (if you'd even class that mention of his existence as attention to begin with). There was a reference somewhere about Hallar fighting a Bloodthirster in a one-on-one duel and winning, but I've forgotten where that might have been.

By the way, Eltharion became the second-in-command of the White Tower's army shortly after Malekith re-invaded Ulthuan (Malekith invaded, caught Eltharion, blinded him, and after that, Eltharion went and trained at the White Tower before going to Naggaroth with Alith Anar). Since Mordheim is set approximately 500 years or so prior to the "current day" WH world, if anything, Aenur would have been displaced from a "Captain of the Swordmasters" position by Hallar. Assuming that he did hold that position in the first place.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#29 Post by Arellion Sapher »

Eltharion's post-blinding WS is 8, if that's still in question. In fact, aside from the martial arts, weapons, and plodding about on foot, he's much the same as before. At least in terms of stats. I think Malekith missed a trick. If I wanted to stop an Asur as neurotic as Eltharion, I'd have taken his hands.
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Re: Poisonblade and his death

#30 Post by Musashi »

He'd probably attach blades to both arms.
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