Why are the asur disappearing?

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Uther Di Asturien
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Why are the asur disappearing?

#1 Post by Uther Di Asturien »

after Giladis posted his overview of the population of asur i began questioning.
I had always thought that perhaps the diminishing of the asur population had to do with the society itself and perhaps inbred.
but now... it doesnt seem likely, and i hear other people saying that the elves reproduce much more slower than humans, can someone clear my question? Why are there not many Elves?
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#2 Post by Dussel »

I don't believe elves reproduce slower.

I believe they just take longer to age/grow up to a suitable age. :)
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#3 Post by Ediblespread »

I reckon its like comparing humans to, say, insects or the like. Insects live for only a few days sometimes, and so need to reproduce fast. Elves have been crafted to live for thousands of years. That means that they are either very unlikely to get pregnant (meaning that every pregnancy would probably mean a big party) or that pregnancy takes, say, a hundred odd years :shock:
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#4 Post by Uther Di Asturien »

that doesnt make sense Dussel, if that were it, then the elves would be the same population as humans (probably even more) and most of the population would be young elves
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#5 Post by Fingol »

The Asur are disappearing because they're in a constant state of war. They'd have Druchii or Chaos raids one week, uppety pirates trying to sink their ships the next, then monsters would decend from the Anulii before dinner time. All that fighting doesn't leave time for population growth.
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#6 Post by Uther Di Asturien »

what about the empire then?
undead from sylvania, orc tribes raiding, chaos from the north, more undead from the south, ogres from the east...
theyre being constantly attacked too, yet you see them growing in numbers.
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#7 Post by Shandiar »

Being far-living into eternities must mean something about getting pregnant too. Even if you live for several hundreds years and you know it, you are not going with the first handsome elf you meet. The courtisies take time, lots of time and can involve (heck that's another thread in itself) so will take lots of time, because these elves can wait and are therefore not subject to be pregnant every 2-4 years as humans are, but rather every century.

Hope that made sense.
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#8 Post by LostSoul3412 »

The Elves of Asur are in decline because of multiple factors.

Constant state of war, which results in heavy losses of of the citizen levy.

Raids, and the damned druchii slave-takers rob Ulthuan of women, children, and anyone unfortunate enough for them to get their hands on.

Longer life decreases the need for rapid reproduction, which instills an extremely low brith-rate by human standards.

High Elven culture is one of art and delicacy, even war is an art to the Pheonix Warhosts. As such, sexual desires and lust are not primary concerns of the Asur, and so the drive to reproduce is not as present as in the lands of the Empire.

Combine all of these factors, and the High Elves are in a population decline... to human standards.
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#9 Post by Eldacar »

or that pregnancy takes, say, a hundred odd years
I pity the poor husband.

As an aside: elven courtships that lead to marriage are very long and very formal, as opposed to the numerous one-night-stands that they get into (those are just what they seem to be - a quickie under the bushes, and you're off).
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[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
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#10 Post by Divine Fferffee »

Also the High Elves are, in my opinion, often gay homosexuals.
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#11 Post by Giladis »

There is no such thing in Warhammer.
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#12 Post by Eldacar »

Divine Fferffee wrote:Also the High Elves are, in my opinion, often gay homosexuals.
"Gay homosexual" cancels itself out due to the fact that it's a double negative.
"Hi guys, I just want to say that for some unknown reason I dreamed the entire Lore team was on my roof last night and we were barbequing a marlin while discussing some rand stuff. It was vivid enough for me that my mother had to wake me up to stop me from mumbling and twitching, believing I was having a nightmare." ~Giladis

"Think of the Loremasters as irresponsible parents. VictorK is the one you need to talk to if you want permission for something, I'm the evil parent that says 'no' and Eldacar is your grumpy grandfather who fought in some war and is scary and authoritative." ~Ruerl Khan

"And believe me, I like my websites like I like my boyfriends: wild, free, and unlikely to give me a virus." ~Sirist

[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
[21:39:49] <Cenyu> Bold words, flying Dutchman.
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#13 Post by Eanarion »

Grom the Paunches invasion of Yvresse and the last war against Malekith took a massive toll on the Asur. Grom's invasion slaughtered half the population of Tor Yvresse, not to mention all the small Towns, Villages and Homesteads/Manor Houses along its path to the city, and the Kingdom never recovered from the losses. As for Malekiths last major invasion before he was stopped at Finuval Plain, only a few major strongholds through out Ulthuan were still holding out against them, not leaving a huge amount of room to house the population, so this war must haven taken a massive toll on the Elves. Even at Finuval when the entire host was mustered in one place (remembering that every elf, male or female, should have been in active service in the Citizen Levy), they were still left out numbered by the Malekith's forces, showing how badly the war had punished them. So war pretty much combined with their ridiculously slow timing between each pregnacy would explain the decline as they are loosing far more than they are producing.
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#14 Post by Eldacar »

The Asur were in decline for some time before Grom the Paunch attacked.
"Hi guys, I just want to say that for some unknown reason I dreamed the entire Lore team was on my roof last night and we were barbequing a marlin while discussing some rand stuff. It was vivid enough for me that my mother had to wake me up to stop me from mumbling and twitching, believing I was having a nightmare." ~Giladis

"Think of the Loremasters as irresponsible parents. VictorK is the one you need to talk to if you want permission for something, I'm the evil parent that says 'no' and Eldacar is your grumpy grandfather who fought in some war and is scary and authoritative." ~Ruerl Khan

"And believe me, I like my websites like I like my boyfriends: wild, free, and unlikely to give me a virus." ~Sirist

[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
[21:39:49] <Cenyu> Bold words, flying Dutchman.
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#15 Post by Tahl »

Eldacar wrote:
Divine Fferffee wrote:Also the High Elves are, in my opinion, often gay homosexuals.
"Gay homosexual" cancels itself out due to the fact that it's a double negative.
Or just a happy homosexual? Either way I dont think the origional post was very well thought out....

On the whole I agree with the above,

- State of War: alot of male elves dying
-Long courtships, which are almost impossible if the young man is in the army...
-Most importantly, GW said so :)
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#16 Post by Cordor »

I think that when games workshop refer to the elder races deminishing, it means that there just arnt as many as there used to be. For example the elven empire once spread all over the old and new world.

After the sundering, the race was more or less split in 2. Then the war of the beard, and the splinter group of the Asari left. but what is often forgotten is that all the elves living in what is now Bretonia and the empire, moved back to Ulthuan.

So yes, due to cival war, and the toll from fighting has of course weekend the elder races as a collective, from there former might and glory. i dont think its as bad as some people seem to think.

Infact i hate all the talk about elves dying out, nonsense! just because some of the cities are half empty just means that there used to be a lot more people. If you look at englands history, the population flux'd all the time over the dark age and medevil periods, with things like the Black death taking the biggest toll, not the fact that we had been at war for the last 3-400 years or so.

Long live the elves!
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#17 Post by Eldacar »

but what is often forgotten is that all the elves living in what is now Bretonia and the empire, moved back to Ulthuan.
Actually, quite a few stayed in Elthin Arvan.
"Hi guys, I just want to say that for some unknown reason I dreamed the entire Lore team was on my roof last night and we were barbequing a marlin while discussing some rand stuff. It was vivid enough for me that my mother had to wake me up to stop me from mumbling and twitching, believing I was having a nightmare." ~Giladis

"Think of the Loremasters as irresponsible parents. VictorK is the one you need to talk to if you want permission for something, I'm the evil parent that says 'no' and Eldacar is your grumpy grandfather who fought in some war and is scary and authoritative." ~Ruerl Khan

"And believe me, I like my websites like I like my boyfriends: wild, free, and unlikely to give me a virus." ~Sirist

[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
[21:39:49] <Cenyu> Bold words, flying Dutchman.
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#18 Post by Dussel »

Lord_Uther_Di_Asturien wrote:that doesnt make sense Dussel, if that were it, then the elves would be the same population as humans (probably even more) and most of the population would be young elves
Not when I don't believe The Asur is diminishing.
Elves probably just don't concieve as succesfull as humans.


Again, I have never heard any hard facts (GW or the likes) about how many elves are left and wether they are adult or children nor facts about why the elves are supposedly diminishing.
Only fan-based fluff.
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#19 Post by Luna Guardian »

LostSoul3412 wrote: As such, sexual desires and lust are not primary concerns of the Asur
Giantslayer by William King wrote:They had all come here come here to trade, to purchase the magical wares, and powerful drugs and medicines for which the elves (personal note: he didn't write elfs!) were famous, and in return they had brough silk, exotic woods, perfumes, spices, and trained pleasure slaves...
The elves HAVE sexual desires :wink:
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#20 Post by Uther Di Asturien »

wow!!! thats a lot of information...
so basically, you say that there are Elf whores???? :shock:
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#21 Post by Luna Guardian »

Ofcourse there are! But those pleasure slaves, I believe, are humans
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#22 Post by Uther Di Asturien »

ohh..... dam, i knew it was too good to be true :D

but do they breed the human whores then?
and what about them getting pregnant? Will there be half-elfs?
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#23 Post by Caradreth »

Giantslayer by William King wrote:A load of rubbish.
Now, let us burn all of these heretical tomes! :wink:
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#24 Post by Eldacar »

I wouldn't call them whores - "concubines" would be closer to the truth of the matter.
and what about them getting pregnant? Will there be half-elfs?
Shaky ground. If it's possible, then they'd likely be unable to reproduce.
"Hi guys, I just want to say that for some unknown reason I dreamed the entire Lore team was on my roof last night and we were barbequing a marlin while discussing some rand stuff. It was vivid enough for me that my mother had to wake me up to stop me from mumbling and twitching, believing I was having a nightmare." ~Giladis

"Think of the Loremasters as irresponsible parents. VictorK is the one you need to talk to if you want permission for something, I'm the evil parent that says 'no' and Eldacar is your grumpy grandfather who fought in some war and is scary and authoritative." ~Ruerl Khan

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[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
[21:39:49] <Cenyu> Bold words, flying Dutchman.
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#25 Post by Prince Althion »

Caradreth wrote:
Giantslayer by William King wrote:A load of rubbish.
Now, let us burn all of these heretical tomes! :wink:
Indeed!

Plus, Why should we accept the word of a writer with a hardon for dwarfs? I mean, all sanity issues aside, it would make sense that he'd at least be biased against elves. :lol:
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#26 Post by The Red Elf »

Because they probably have a birth rate only a little above replacement (how long it would have taken for the population to reach 24 million is anyone's guess), but each generation is separated by a few hundred years so it's very delicate. If people die in battle or from some other means, it takes a lot of time for the population to replace them and, if the High Elves find themselves fighting wars increasingly regularly, elves will be born at a sub-replacement rate, so the population will shrink.
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#27 Post by Sethannon »

I think elves would have a smaller sex drive. Well, like in physics if the sex drive was like wieght then elves would have a smaller sex drive, but I think it is more like density, i.e. total sex drive/lifespan. I think an elf might not find it too hard to go 50 years without sex... would anyone care to do the same?

Besides the analogy of insects to us, elves see humans as insects, and insects have *so* much sex, its unbelievalbe, and so their poplulation far exeeds our own. its like that for the elves, they don't see themselvs as having small desire to have sex but instead they think humans are like rabbits.
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#28 Post by Eldacar »

I think an elf might not find it too hard to go 50 years without sex...
*Checks out Giantslayer and WHFRP*

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
"Hi guys, I just want to say that for some unknown reason I dreamed the entire Lore team was on my roof last night and we were barbequing a marlin while discussing some rand stuff. It was vivid enough for me that my mother had to wake me up to stop me from mumbling and twitching, believing I was having a nightmare." ~Giladis

"Think of the Loremasters as irresponsible parents. VictorK is the one you need to talk to if you want permission for something, I'm the evil parent that says 'no' and Eldacar is your grumpy grandfather who fought in some war and is scary and authoritative." ~Ruerl Khan

"And believe me, I like my websites like I like my boyfriends: wild, free, and unlikely to give me a virus." ~Sirist

[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
[21:39:49] <Cenyu> Bold words, flying Dutchman.
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#29 Post by Suriel »

Luna Guardian wrote:Ofcourse there are! But those pleasure slaves, I believe, are humans
i personally don't think an elf of ulthuan would sleep with a human. its just inappriopriate. in Gilead's Blood i remember that Fithvael was shocked by the fact that his old friend had a son with a human.

in the same book we can read what Gilead thought about how attractive human females are (when he saw the necklace that one of the maids wore).

AFAIK on the very beggining of Giants Slayer, when Tyrion?? entered Teclis' room he was sleeping with 2 females so...

ps. edited
Last edited by Suriel on Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#30 Post by Eldacar »

Aren't you talking about Gilead's Blood?
"Hi guys, I just want to say that for some unknown reason I dreamed the entire Lore team was on my roof last night and we were barbequing a marlin while discussing some rand stuff. It was vivid enough for me that my mother had to wake me up to stop me from mumbling and twitching, believing I was having a nightmare." ~Giladis

"Think of the Loremasters as irresponsible parents. VictorK is the one you need to talk to if you want permission for something, I'm the evil parent that says 'no' and Eldacar is your grumpy grandfather who fought in some war and is scary and authoritative." ~Ruerl Khan

"And believe me, I like my websites like I like my boyfriends: wild, free, and unlikely to give me a virus." ~Sirist

[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
[21:39:49] <Cenyu> Bold words, flying Dutchman.
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