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Are you happy with the changes ahead?
Yes 18%  18%  [ 23 ]
No 40%  40%  [ 50 ]
I'll wait and see 42%  42%  [ 53 ]
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:01 am 
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KelliStClaire wrote:
Maybe grief is enough reason but I don't think so. Aenarion took the sword out of grief but also desperation as it was only way to save his people, Tyrion is doing because what ? His child is dead it could be good enough reason but it's another way to cheapen this character.

I know he was somehow destined to take this sword, but I don't like the reason. I don't like a reason Malekith is know Pheonix King, but still details like Morathi preventing Teclis work of undoing vortex is just plain stupid, as for decades she was trying to undo the vortex [-X


You don't have a kid of your own do you? Ask most father's here how they'd respond to the loss of their child. Me, I'd draw that sword if a greenskin stole my daughters toy and blew a raspberry at her. Khorne and Khaine would be hosting an intervention if a skaven pushed her over and she scraped her knee. Tyrion walked the same downward spiral as Anaerion and if anyone's surprised I wonder at how much attention they've been paying to him in the past.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:08 am 
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You see, that is the problem. So far we have 2 people who read the book. One is more positive but hasn't directly recommend the book. The other is negative. I would like to collect such feedback before I decide I want to read the book. I didn't enjoy Gav Thorpe "Malekith" to the point where I didn't finish the book and didn't even try to read another 2 parts. That is why I am skeptical about Curse of Khaine and would prefer not to waste my time on another poor book.

You, on the other hand, are overly optimistic despite the fact you haven't read it at all. I understand you like the story already but that does not count as a book review.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:20 am 
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@Swordmaster, if you didn't like Malekith, then you won't like this one either. I read about half and so far so good (as far as can be expected from BL elves). But I hold no grudge against Thorpe and in fact think his trilogy was better than the other HE books. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:22 am 
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@Swordmaster, I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic for the fluff at this point, I've read the Sundering series and the Great Betrayal and I tend to find small things to enjoy in it, I liked the character of Yeasir, I liked the Raven Herald and the Ellyrion Prince and Princess. I tend to prefer more content because more content means more options to tell my own story for my army, even if you're digging in dirt, it doesn't mean you can't find a gem or two you like. But like I said, I prefer more content, so to me Ulthuan sinking into the ocean equals a great chance to come up with a story about the Loremasters of Hoeth shunting the White Tower into some demiplane or turning it in to the White Ark for example. Even when my favourite character, Eltharion died, my mind was immediately ticking over what was the next step and the step after that and so forth. My greatest enjoyment is taking on the fluff and saying 'what next?'. And even as jarring as this might be, the possibilities are exciting all round.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:26 am 
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I don't hold a grudge against him either. I liked his 40k novels, not the best to choose from but good enough.

I am really curious how he pulled out all these things we read spoilers about. But maybe I will just wait for the ET: Khaine instead as I heard there are some further inconsistencies between BL and ET books.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:46 am 
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
You see, that is the problem. So far we have 2 people who read the book. One is more positive but hasn't directly recommend the book. The other is negative. I would like to collect such feedback before I decide I want to read the book. I didn't enjoy Gav Thorpe "Malekith" to the point where I didn't finish the book and didn't even try to read another 2 parts. That is why I am skeptical about Curse of Khaine and would prefer not to waste my time on another poor book.

You, on the other hand, are overly optimistic despite the fact you haven't read it at all. I understand you like the story already but that does not count as a book review.

I understand what you mean, but you would have to base that decision on the opinion of someone you KNOW has a very similar opinion on books in general, not an internet forum in my opinion. Especially if one reads the spoilers here. It will take half of the possible enjoyment off the book, no? I am not optimistic. In fact I am rather skeptical as to the quality of the writing, but presuming that my opinion holds ANY value to anyone with the capacity of making their own judgement is just wrong. Its the same case as with Internet Army Lists - people read those and they assume that if they work for other people, they will work for them. Instead of building up the experience and finding what works for them.

In short - you might have gone and read the book and make your own judgement instead of trying to find and read reviews... was it really time spent better? Dont take me wrong, I do the same sometimes, but the older I get, I am beginning to think that making a mistake might be sometimes more worth it and costs less than trying to avoid the mistake through opinions of others as you will probably never get anything consistent and enough of them... :-)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:17 am 
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@Swordmaster. I am about two thirds through the book and I think it is decent enough. Then again I liked all of the Sundering books also, so you might not want to take my word for it. Especially if you didn't like Malekith, as Thorpe's writing hasn't changed much since then.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:41 am 
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aurynn wrote:
And you are the ultimate judge and you are sure that all of us will hate it. Will send you a list of books for review okay? :-P And here I thought that Tyrion is arrogant.


My apologies. I am merely trying to express the depth of my disapproval.

If it helps, I think the battles are competently written and Kouran is neat. There are a few nice bits of characterisation as well: I like how Malekith regularly gets Kouran's name wrong. Spoilers from here on!

Making Malekith the protagonist of the whole thing was probably a mistake, in my opinion. A few other characters' perspectives would have helped, since Tyrion's turn to evil seems very important, but the book tells us absolutely nothing about his perspective, his interactions with Morathi, and so on; and Teclis seems like potentially the most interesting and complex character in the novel.

I think what bothers me the most about it is the approach to the gods. I've written about my views of Asuryan and Khaine before; but I think this novel's view of Asuryan in particular is very disappointing. The idea that Malekith was always destined to be Phoenix King just doesn't work for me. I can see what Thorpe was going for - the tragic irony of the entire six thousand year war being just because Malekith couldn't stand the pain for a few seconds longer - but I read it as a validation of Malekith's ego, whereas to me the important thing to understand about Malekith's character is how small and petty it is. Malekith is not worthy to be Phoenix King because he is only interested in being Phoenix King for selfish and prideful reasons; whereas as Curse of Khaine has it, Malekith is not worthy to be Phoenix King because his pain threshold was slightly lower than it ought to be. That just strikes me as banal, and centering the entire book on the person of Malekith and on Malekith's destiny to become Phoenix King just validates Malekith's ego in a way that I personally find distressing and disappointing. It even suggests that it was the taint of Chaos in Morathi that stopped the elven nobles from originally acclaiming Malekith is king. There's an early line in the book where Morathi tells Malekith "[your nature] is not that of a victor. Yours is to lose, and to blame others for the loss." The book seems all too ready to accept Malekith's delusions as true and to blame others for the fact that Malekith was rejected.

Morever, what the book implies about Asuryan's priorities just does not work for me either. As I commented in the linked thread, I understand Asuryan as being the incarnation of legitimate authority. Asuryan is the king of the gods: he is, essentially, kingship. The war between Asuryan and Khaine is not about who the better fighter is, but about which principle should order society. Khaine is the sword: he stands for might and naked power. Asuryan is the scepter: he stands for nobility and rulership through virtue. But the picture you get in the novel is very different. Teclis talks about all the previous Phoenix Kings being thieves, and mentions Finubar being reluctant to lead his people to war. But the idea that it is the duty of the Phoenix King to lead his people to war is a Khainite one. That doesn't come from Asuryan.

Anyway.

There were a lot of other things that bothered me. You get a fair number of claims that are either wrong or inconsistent with prior canon: the idea that all the post-Aenarion Phoenix Kings were consumed by madness, Tyrion just draws the Sword of Khaine despite ABs establishing that it takes extensive rituals to be able to draw it (p. 12 8th ed.), and so on.

Then there are a lot of things that just ring false. Caradryan should not speak, for instance, and if for some reason Caradryan must speak, as it is the will of Asuryan, he ought to speak with weight and power. He shouldn't just become an unquestioning minion for Malekith.

There's also tone and dialogue. My preferred vision of elves is one with a certain ancient dignity. It can be hard to define, but at times I found the major characters talking in a much too casual or modern way, and it didn't feel quite right to me.

I suppose there's also the implausibility of the entire set-up. A substantial proportion of Ulthuan rallying behind Malekith does not seem like a plausible sequence of events, and the way the novel explained it was not at all believable, in my opinion. There's a bit where Malekith comments "My name is poison on the tongues of the asur", and Teclis replies that it "will be nullified by your title"; as if the elves are so credulous as to follow an elf who has been trying to destroy them for six thousand years simply because he has decided to start calling himself 'Phoenix King'. Malekith points out that he looks hideous, and Teclis weaves an illusion to hide his armour and make him appear attractive, and I for one don't believe the High Elves are that superficial. And it's not as if Malekith is hiding in the shadows for the entire war. Indeed, he prominently reveals his identity at the Siege of Lothern, apparently believing that it will raise morale and help lead the army to victory. When Alarielle makes a statement consenting to wed Malekith in Lothern, the crowd promptly cheers and chants Malekith's name, instead of reacting to it the way I think they plausibly should, i.e. with utter horror and despair at the blasphemy implied.

So let me sum it up like this. I think key figures are not characterised sufficiently (or indeed at all), there are a number of what I would regard as continuity errors, Malekith's take-over of Ulthuan and Tyrion's submission to Morathi are highly implausible and do not ring true, important characters are portrayed in mundane and disappointing ways, the implied vision of the elven gods is disappointing and narrow, and I feel the book's perspective on Malekith and kingship is deeply flawed.

Now, you might love the book. You are not me; you might think it's great.

But I considered it probably the worst WHF novel I've read, and if you are anything like me, or if the problems I just described sound like things that might bother you, you might also find that you can't stand it.

Oh, and a final word: I personally don't have a grudge against Gav Thorpe. I really liked his Dark Angel books, his Sundering trilogy was okay, and as far as the Storm of Chaos ending goes, he was doing his best with what he had. Thorpe has also posted some things I like on the internet before, and I really appreciate his work on the Adeptus Mechanicus for Inquisitor. I would say that on the whole I am positively disposed towards Gav Thorpe and his writing. It's just that this particular book, in my opinion, was terrible. I don't know whether that's Thorpe's fault or the fault of whatever committee is setting the direction for the End Times story, and frankly I'm not really interested in assigning blame. I'd rather talk about the book than about the author.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:46 am 
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FVC wrote:
My apologies. I am merely trying to express the depth of my disapproval.

Fair enough. I didnt mean it too harshly either. ;-) Cheers

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:58 am 
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*shrug* It's probably better that I went into more detail anyway. I was a bit incoherent at first and just wanted to yell something negative at the internet.

I should be better than that. Thank you for the reminder. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:04 am 
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FVC wrote:
aurynn wrote:
I would say that on the whole I am positively disposed towards Gav Thorpe and his writing. It's just that this particular book, in my opinion, was terrible. I don't know whether that's Thorpe's fault or the fault of whatever committee is setting the direction for the End Times story, and frankly I'm not really interested in assigning blame. I'd rather talk about the book than about the author.


I think the direction of the End Times is indeed part of the problem. I like Thorpe and think the book is rather well written considering what he had to work with. The rumours claim that the mastermind behind much of the elven End Time book was actually none other than Mat Ward, and if I have to hazard a guess I would say that Thorpe tried to make the best out of a terrible situation.

I really can't express in proper words how glad I am that Ward has finally left GW. His rules writing was getting better but his fluff is horrible.


Last edited by Francis on Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:05 am 
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Thanks a lot to everybody who shared their opinion on the book. In particular to FVC for his very detailed description without giving up too many spoilers. I am afraid I will skip that book then and will read ET: Khaine only.

There was a question somewhere on Warseer but I can't find it at the moment, regarding the fact all Phoenix Kings were false and the ritual to summon back Nagash.

It was said that he didn't get to the full strength as Everchild was not the daughter of Everqueen and Phoenix King. However, it seems it would not matter anyway, as all Phoenix Kings were false so any children would not have Flame of Asuryan in their blood.

Do you consider that inconsistency in the new background?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:08 am 
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I don´t think all Phoenix Kings are false kings. While Asuryan wanted Malekith to rise to the challenge and take what was his, the other Phoenix Kings still walked into the flames and survived.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:14 am 
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I dont think that even if PKs were false matters. What matters is the perception from Nagash' side or his ressurection lot's. The fact they believed that she is a "trueblood" is the crucial thing. Therefore I dont see any inconsistency.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:19 am 
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Thanks a lot to everybody who shared their opinion on the book. In particular to FVC for his very detailed description without giving up too many spoilers. I am afraid I will skip that book then and will read ET: Khaine only.

There was a question somewhere on Warseer but I can't find it at the moment, regarding the fact all Phoenix Kings were false and the ritual to summon back Nagash.

It was said that he didn't get to the full strength as Everchild was not the daughter of Everqueen and Phoenix King. However, it seems it would not matter anyway, as all Phoenix Kings were false so any children would not have Flame of Asuryan in their blood.

Do you consider that inconsistency in the new background?


It is not all that inconsistent when you analyze it, since Mannfred and Arkhan needed a being with the blessing of two gods. The two of them could never have known that the everchild has never actually held the blessing of Asuryan so the result would have been poor no matter if Tyrion or Finubar had been the father.

However, I think the most important aspect is the curse of Khaine, which Nagash got through the ritual, and only the daughter of Tyrion could have given him that curse. This is why I think Teclis felt forced to sacrifice his own niese. He needed leverage over Nagash.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:35 am 
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If Asuryan truly didn't bless the Phoenix Kings then wouldn't the Everqueen line be impure after Yvraine?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:56 am 
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Wait... I missed something... so Nagash has a curse of Khaine now? As an Undead? Well that seems bit stretchy... how would it even affect him?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:02 pm 
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The idea is that because he was resurrected from Aliathra, who inherited the Curse of Aenarion, Nagash's resurrection was somehow also tainted and he was weakened. I don't think he suffers from the Curse of Aenarion itself; it was just a spanner in the works.

I don't worry too much about it myself, because firstly the daughter of the Phoenix King wouldn't inherit the blessing of Asuryan at all, as it's not hereditary, secondly all the mechanics we were given for Nagash's resurrection are MacGuffins invented for The Rise of Nagash and do not have anything to do with necromancy as we understood it, and thirdly Nagash never needed resurrection in the first place. The continuity of the End Times is shot full of holes. In any case, Aliathra had the Curse of Aenarion and that stuffed up the ritual that brought back Nagash.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:03 pm 
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Francis wrote:
@Swordmaster. I am about two thirds through the book and I think it is decent enough. Then again I liked all of the Sundering books also, so you might not want to take my word for it. Especially if you didn't like Malekith, as Thorpe's writing hasn't changed much since then.

I heard 1/3 of the book copypasted from previous books Malekith, Caledor and Shadow king. This is true?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:09 pm 
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aurynn wrote:
Wait... I missed something... so Nagash has a curse of Khaine now? As an Undead? Well that seems bit stretchy... how would it even affect him?


When Nagash was resurrected, they sacrificed several beings with the blessings of the gods in order to make him as strong as possible. The everqueen was supposed to provide the powers of both Isha and Asuryan, however, she provided only the power of Isha and added the Curse of Khaine to the mix.

As a result Nagahs' rebirth ritual was incomplete and he was forced to steal power from Valaya and Kill Usirian (Nehekharan god of death) in order to regain his old power, and I still think Teclis has some leverage over him despite his now incredibly powerful state of being. (That is of course if Teclis survives, if he doesn't I think we all might be very screwed indeed).


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:10 pm 
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Count wrote:
I heard 1/3 of the book copypasted from previous books Malekith, Caledor and Shadow king. This is true?


Yes it is, although it works to a point. By now I am just skipping it all since I know what those snippets say.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:12 pm 
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http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ost7323983

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Teclis tries to stop him, but Tyrion is consumed by grief, betrayal and Morathi has something to do with it, but we don;t see her POV. Malekith is trying to stop him too. They do not want that sword pulled.

It's not as black and white as good and bad

Malekith is nowhere near the good guy, he's bitter and shown up for a fool and being weak numerous times
Teclis, Imrik and Everqueen pull everyone together, for the good of the Elves, with Malekith as a more or less a puppet phoenix king
Tyrion would have killed Malekith a hundred times over, he was that strong
If it wasn't for Teclis saving him on the blighted isle, and alith anar shooting tyrion in the final battle, Malekith would be dead
There''s no glorious ceremony, no fawning. Droves of companies flock to Tyrion's banner

There's no Tyrion point of view to see why he chose that path

Regarding Tyrion

he lays siege to averlorn to force the issue of marriage to the everqueen, as he calls himself the phoenix king, and this would make it appear more "legit"

it's not like she's happy or willing to kill him, or to marry malekith for that matter


You know? I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for Malekith. The same kind of sorry I felt for Mim in the Silmarillion, mind you. I think it would be better to put him out of his misery and end this all.

From what we've seen, on top of all we already knew about him from the Army books (such as being a failiure through the whole war):

-He wasn't man enough to stand Ass-uryan's fire. So Ass-uryan decided that his test would be 6000 years of exile.
-He -also- fails to defend against the chaos hordes.
-Once in the island, he loses miserably every single battle
-The ones to do all the job are Teclis, Allariele and Imrik. To the point, from what we've been told, Malekith's only point is being a puppet king.
-He tries to act all high and mighty, and that only makes everyone go to Tyrion. In fact, it seems that he almost makes Teclis plan fail.
-His only real call to kingship is being chosen by Ass-uryan.
-On top of that, from what others have said, Tyrion doesn't even have a problem with Maly. He dies to an arrow from Alith Anar that hits a damaged part of his armor (Dragon of Cothique = Smaug?). That damage was caused not by Maly, but by Imrik.

In general, it seems like most things aren't really his doing, and that he is being used.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Count wrote:
I heard 1/3 of the book copypasted from previous books Malekith, Caledor and Shadow king. This is true?


Yes. It is absolutely full of flashbacks, and while they do sometimes serve a purpose, I think they were probably overused.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:32 pm 
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Well its the book that should give you background to the events even if you didnt read the previous books. I bet many ppl do appreciate it. Althought I get how it may be disconcerting to ppl who know that stuff already. .-)

As for Nagash - yea I read the stuff about the blood with blessings of gods, but not exactly sure how madder he can get because of the curse or what exactly the leverage would be.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Do you think that Tyrion is truly dead, or will we see him pull a Karl Franz?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:31 pm 
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Hope not. It wouldn't be that illogical for Khaine to do something like that, but for the sake of the story I hope not.

Honestly, I see as much more likely Malekith dying and somehow making Asuryan reborn, even though still low probability.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:38 pm 
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It's funny how Assuryan couldn't care less about Malekith being a despicably evil, treacherous and dishonorable creature and would have gladly accepted him only if he gave himself to his flames and endured some pain to the end. HELLO? Didn't this guy just defile your Shrine by sneaking weapons into the place and murdered unarmed and defenseless elven nobles before taking your test? All those Princes who were cowardly murdered there that day were unarmed not because they were DUMB, it was because they were honorable and respected the sanctity of YOUR shrine and abided by YOUR rules. This not only proves that this candidate would do ANYTHING for power and glory including the most treacherous, despicable and cowardly acts if he deems it necessary. I guess when the Immaterium entity itself is a psychopath, it's no wonder he'd approve psychopathic behavior in its worshipers. It is also STRONGLY implied that Malekith was the one who murdered Bel-Shanaar, I don't think this was only his Mother's doing and their actions were mostly coordinated after a point so he was at least an accomplice of such a heinous act. These things matter because Malekith did all of these things BEFORE "taking Asuryan's test".

Ok, I get it, you can be the most despicable and treacherous SNAKE in the World and still can pass this deity's test only if you can endure some pain. What about the whole confusion about Ulthuan's elvish civilizations system of government and the way this deity seems to be confused about it. It wasn't a Hereditary Monarchy, it was a kind of an Elective Monarchy. Even Malekith himself knew that he SHOULD have been elected by the council of Princes to even be able to walk into the flames and become the PK. Ass-uryan wanted a hereditary system, a dynasty, and didn't inform his people of this decision? Surely, just saying "Dude, what's with all this electing the PK nonsense, just shove the guy who is the heir of the previous PK into my flames and be done with it - you're doing it wrong" would have been enough?

What Malekith should have done was to act like Tyrion did as an heir of Aenarion before this ridiculous ET fluff. Tyrion always acted honorable, measured and gained the love and respect of both the people and the nobility by his actions earning him the title of "Defender of Ulthuan". Even in his current fluff it's written that "Some believe that he will one day take the Phoenix Crown, though Tyrion pays no heed to such rumours and continues to serve the current Phoenix King with unswerving loyalty". He would have eventually become the PK if none of the ridiculousness in this hack-piece of fluff happened. Malekith could very well have been elected as the PK after Bel-Shanaar after proving everyone that he wouldn't have become his father after drawing the Widowmaker and would've made for a good leader.

nicco321 wrote:
Do you think that Tyrion is truly dead, or will we see him pull a Karl Franz?


He's dead, Jim.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:13 pm 
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It's been so long since i wrote anything here that i probably had my account deleted.

This is a fateful moment.

For so long we have shouted : for Ulthuan!, as we marched into battle.
Now the spires of the Annulii seem to disappear beneath the cold sea.
Was it all in vain?
Gone are the forests of Chrace, and the dark wastes of Nagarythe. Gone is magical Saphery, Yvresse, Cothique and Tiranoc with its fields of gleaming emerald grass. Gone is Glorious Caledor.

We fought hard, far away from our home but the hope that one day we would see her again...no, more than that, the hope that she was there, free, and beautiful, warmed our hearts during the cold nights of the wastes of the world.
A magical kingdom, which justified all our pain, all our suffering and struggle. As long as Ulthuan stood, no sacrifice was too great. A home, to dream of before our next shift begun.
A distant fire to look on, and great lighthouses to light our way.
To light our way home.

Alas.
There is no home to return to. No magical land. No elven Kingdom no more.

Many speak of unity. Unity of the elven people can be only welcome. But, still it is too late.
Our home is gone. The gleaming cities, and the great gates. The far off plains and deep woods, the mountains where dragons slept, all, now beneath the sea.

Curse the gods. Curse them all, elven or not.

for one last time i will say it.

Here i stand on the last shore
a sword in my hand
Ulthuan shall never fall.

Farewell.



Please forgive my rant. If this inapropriate or too much derailing please delete it.

_________________
And now when nothing remains
all we have to do is build over again
come on now! let us build a wonderful celebration,
on the edge of that abyss that yawns for us


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:19 pm 
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Lecai wrote:
It is also STRONGLY implied that Malekith was the one who murdered Bel-Shanaar, I don't think this was only his Mother's doing and their actions were mostly coordinated after a point so he was at least an accomplice of such a heinous act.


Malekith murdered Bel-Shanaar. In chapter twenty-four of Curse of Khaine, he asks: '‘I was not cursed? Though I profaned Asuryan’s temple with blood and sought dominion over my kin? Though I killed Bel Shanaar with my own hands, the Lord of the Cadai would have blessed me if I had endured for a few heartbeats longer?"

Aramil Sianontel wrote:
Here i stand on the last shore
a sword in my hand
Ulthuan shall never fall.


Indeed not. Ulthuan is the eternal realm.

Why pay heed to these 'End Times'? Why are their stories any truer than yours? If you say Ulthuan shall never fall - and I would gladly join my voice to yours in that - then shall that not be so?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:34 pm 
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Ey, I shall pay no heed to these endtimes, I shall fight on the shores of Ulthuan against the dark kin, with Tyrion and Eltharion to guide my soldiers into battle. My witchelves are still loyal to Khaine and Malekith, not to the Asur. And I still have no clue what my wood elves are doing.

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He who fails to plan, plans to fail. Remember this well.

“Ask Prince Imrik nicely,’ the Witch King added. ‘Be sure to say “please”.”
The Curse of Khaine


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