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How are you going to change your army list?
1. I am not. I don't like the changes at all and I am going to quit warhammer entirely. 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
2. I am not. I will stick to HE as per their existing rulebook no matter what. 34%  34%  [ 35 ]
3. I will use the list for the army led by Malekith. 4%  4%  [ 4 ]
4. I will use the list for the army led by Tyrion. 6%  6%  [ 6 ]
5. I will use the Survivors army. 18%  18%  [ 19 ]
6. I don't know yet but I will combine units from all three army books for sure. 35%  35%  [ 36 ]
Total votes : 103
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:24 am 
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Greetings,

With quite a substantial information about new army lists featured in ET: Khaine I am sure many players have already started some brainstorming. I still don't like the idea of combined armies and the justification for it. But these are the rules we are going to have and weather some of us are going to give up the hobby entirely or try to stay true to their own background and keep HE only forces, we may as well try to be prepared for different kind of enemies we are going to face in the near future.

I decided to run the poll too but if you feel some options should be added let me know.

Another important question is if we are going to see these armies incorporated to the core rules in the same way as 50% allowance was. I know that some tournament organizer already allow some sort of ET armies to be used in their events so I wonder where that is going to lead us.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:41 am 
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The whole idea behind my Asrai army was a Loec, ever so slightly harlequin themed army, I'm already using parts from all three races and fluff from all three races, so my intention is to use what ever new options allow me to get my army playing closer to my personal fluff. Executioners as 'Death Jesters' comes to mind for an interesting conversion, but my attitude has always been that I need GW for the rules and everything else I can do myself, I'd rather tell my own story than follow someone else's.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:07 am 
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as good as it rules-wise may be, I'm not going to take ANY dark elf or wood elf units.
I picked high elves for a reason, i'm staying loyal to that.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:25 am 
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I just know that I intend to use my Treeman and Avatar of Khaine models with my High Elves.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:31 am 
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Until I find out more about the book, I'm not sure I can really decide. My biggest problem is going to be coping with the lack of Phoenix Guard. I might be able to take some of the other faction's elves with me, depending on how the fluff is handled, but the PG will either have to die or abandon Ass-uryan, and forgo their 4++.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:32 am 
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I'll gladly put some of my wood elves I pick up as allies back in 4/5e (and before, but they weren't really allies then) back into my army.

On a side note, what reason is there going to be to take HE archers at all anymore? And the banner issues on the HE core are now going to stand out even more.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:42 am 
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I'm assuming the competitive choices would be:

LORDS: Archmage (with book), Dreadlord, Loremaster, maybe Ancient Treeman (I doubt it. A caster vulnerable to cannons isn't that great)
HEROES: Master, Spellsinger, Noble BSB (For BotWD).
CORE: Dark riders, Silver Helms, Glade Guard, Witch elves
SPECIAL: Phoenix Guard, White Lions, RBTs, Sisters of the Thorn, Shades, Wild Riders and Dragon Princes or Cold One Knights
RARE: Frostheart Phoenixes, RBTs, Waywatchers, Warlocks.

Everything else is redundant or not that necessary.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:46 pm 
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I've been curious about the possibilities of a united elven force for a while, albeit in the context of pre-Sundering rather than End Times. Apart from a brief flirtation when I was just starting off, though, I've eschewed Dark Elves for a couple of reasons - I wasn't particularly fond of the Khainites in general (even as a horny teenager, I found the Witch Elves to be a bit... silly), and when I was also looking at High Elves and Lizardmen, then the things I did like about Dark Elves had enough crossover with those two that taking all three seemed a little... redundant. I'd also generally had a policy regarding armies that if there was something that you really didn't like about an army you probably shouldn't take it lest that become the direction that gets focused on in the next book, and by and large that's been vindicated - most of the new stuff that has come out for the Dark Elves since 6E has only turned me more off them.

As a unified list, though: I've always had a liking for the idea of repeater crossbows (although a raised a mental eyebrow balance-wise when they got armour piercing...) and hypothetically I could see myself getting a few of those if there was the option to field them alongside High Elves as part of a unified list. And possibly some hydras or other beasts, Corsairs, Cold One Knights, and a few others... watched very carefully, of course, or reflavoured as something else (these aren't Corsairs and Beastmasters, they're Cothiquan monster hunters! And why should we eschew the traditional Nagarythan repeater crossbow just because of who else uses it?)

Similarly, a bit of Wood Elf stuff seems to fit in as troops with a more Avelornian flavour.

However, this is all hypothetical, as at the moment I'm not really in a position to enact any such plans. But if I did have the disposable income and a reasonable expectation of being able to paint up and fight with the units, I could see myself sprinkling in a bit of both of the other lists into a High Elf core force when I wouldn't collect either the Asrai or Druchii on their own.

Shannar, Sealord wrote:
On a side note, what reason is there going to be to take HE archers at all anymore? And the banner issues on the HE core are now going to stand out even more.


If you want a unit that can act as either archers or spearmen, doesn't have to fight in a forest, and you're too cheap to shell out for actual Lothern Sea Guard? But yeah, certainly for any actual archery they're only ever going to pull ahead of Wood Elf archers if they have three+ ranks and either the target is completely unarmoured or it's lightly armoured and you can't Volley Fire...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:03 pm 
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I am of a similar mindset on this. Wood Elves as "Avelorn" (provided it survives), Dark Elves can mingle in variety of realms.

In addition I totally dig the conversion and mixing possibilities!

As for our poor foot-core, I will just wait for 9th before passing judgement on what units are useless or sub-optimal.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:13 pm 
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I like variety. I hope that out of this we will get three new 'army book' type lists: Tyrion and Khainites, Malekith and Ulthuan, and Survivers. On top of that, I hope we get to play in different time settings, and therefore keep access to High, Dark and Wood. I don't think the latter is going to be the case and I'm not sure whether we'll get anything other than the Survivor faction for gameplay. We'll see. I like the modelling opportunities though and I like that the lore isn't being left to go stale, I'm reserving judgement on the direction it is taking.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:40 pm 
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Well even if we end up with survivors, you will still be able to field a stylish pure WE force or any other from the 3. Fluffy lists rule anyway. :-)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:08 pm 
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During Storm of Chaos I built a Cult of Slaanesh. It was great to play but not long afterwards GW invalidated the SoC lists and re-set everything back to the basic army books.

Now I have a HE and a WE army. These have very different colour schemes and basing so will not look good next to each other. I am a little wary of any attempt to make a combined force that doesn't look awful, in case I have to re-do everything in a year's time.

Ironic really, considering that when I turned from Dark Elves many, many years ago, what I really wanted was a hybrid High/Wood elf army.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:31 pm 
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I don't care as long as sliver helms and reavers stay core. I'm also used to loremasters so i would prefer them to remain as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:50 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
During Storm of Chaos I built a Cult of Slaanesh. It was great to play but not long afterwards GW invalidated the SoC lists and re-set everything back to the basic army books.

Now I have a HE and a WE army. These have very different colour schemes and basing so will not look good next to each other. I am a little wary of any attempt to make a combined force that doesn't look awful, in case I have to re-do everything in a year's time.

Ironic really, considering that when I turned from Dark Elves many, many years ago, what I really wanted was a hybrid High/Wood elf army.


Another past mistake that I hope they learned from. But oddly enough I originally built my elves as a HE/WE hybrid (because under 4th and before that was fairly easy to do). My warhawk riders are excited to fly again though.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:58 pm 
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I don't like it at all, really. It seems really lazy and a "grubby money fingers" technique.

"Why collect one army, work out the pros and cons and tactics when you can have the best of all the armies?"

I'll be sticking with my Lizardmen for a while, methinks.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:15 am 
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Yeah... I'm not liking the way that this will basically nullify the various weaknesses of each branch of elf.

Can you say BotWD Kouran black guard with high mages?

Star dragon prince/darkshards/special bolt throwers/waywatchers/warlocks/frost phoenix

Ugly


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:32 am 
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Tullarion wrote:
Yeah... I'm not liking the way that this will basically nullify the various weaknesses of each branch of elf.

Can you say BotWD Kouran black guard with high mages?

Star dragon prince/darkshards/special bolt throwers/waywatchers/warlocks/frost phoenix

Ugly

+1

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:55 am 
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My list will continue to be High Elves 8th edition. I'm not interesting in playing the other elves for competitive gain, I picked high elves as my army because when I picked up warhammer again a few years ago that is the army I fell in love with.

The only addition I will make is adding in masters and dreadlords in place of princes and nobles so that I may use their fast cav rules and finally have a true ellryian cavalry prince. I'm not even planning on using dark riders or brolocks, I just want a fast moving prince.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:51 am 
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Ferny wrote:
I like variety. I hope that out of this we will get three new 'army book' type lists: Tyrion and Khainites, Malekith and Ulthuan, and Survivers.
From what I recall, this seems to be exactly what we're getting.

It also seems roughly like the south of Ulthuan is siding with Malekith (Saphery and Caledor that we know of, and we've seen Lothern units in the Malekith army as well as Phoenix Guard) while the north is largely siding with Tyrion (Korhil of the White Lions has been mentioned in a leak as being on Tyrion's side). A large part of this is probably because the north has suffered more from the Sundering and the wars in general, and so finds it that much harder to join Malekith.

My gut feeling, then, is that Tiranoc and Ellyrion will probably also jump towards the Aestyrion - partly because those are both realms that have suffered markedly in the fighting, and partly because that allows both sides to still have light cavalry (Reavers on Tyrion's side, Raven Heralds on Malekith's).

On the Dark Elves... it does seem as if the Cult of Khaine is joining the Aestyrion, although there is a mention of Morathi fighting Hellebron. Most of the Dark Elf magic-users I could see jumping to the Aestyrion, since the sorceresses are loyal to Morathi and the Warlocks will probably happily side against Malekith given the opportunity - this balances out Malekith's side getting the White Tower and the Asrai stuff. The Bloodwrack Medusae are also under Morathi's control and will probably stay with her.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:57 am 
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The backstory of the Asur has always been the defining reason why I chose them as my Warhammer army. The fact is that my beloved High Elves that have been there for me through all the ups and downs of life are changing. I may not like or agree with the forthcoming changes to the Warhammer world but there is nothing I can do about them. I'll wait and see what happens in ET Khaine and go from there.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:09 am 
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I was unlucky enough to get preorder the new book in time, so I will continue with my current list how it is. I'm really enjoying it.
Whether I add in any of my Druchii, or Asrai will depend on how I can work it into my fluff.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:36 pm 
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First, I do not know what the Everqueen's updated profiles look like or what rules have changed.

Second, the Eternity King's army is godlike out of control good. It seriously takes all the units that are powerful in all 3 books and puts it in one place. On top of that, it allows you to mix and match all the magic. On top of that, it gives you the most ridiculous rulings of all: combined Martial Prowess and Murderous Prowess. On top of that, Malekith is actually good, and his presence alone gives you a Lv.5 Shadow Wizard with an undispellable Walk Between Worlds and makes your Martial Prowess fight in 2 ranks and Murderous Prowess re-roll all wounds within 12" of him.

Too good. Too good. :^o

I would start off like this:
Eternity King army
Malekith, Shadow Lv.5
AM with Book of Hoeth, High Magic (anti-KFC)
Lv.1 High Mage, or Heavens
Master BSB 1+ RR
Witch Elves Core +1 move
Silver Helms Core
Fill rest with Dark Riders
Big unit White Lions BotWD
Big unit Phoenix Guard, AP Banner
2x Phoenixes
2x Warlocks
2x Great Eagles
Fill the rest with as many RBTs as I have points since its now in Special and Rare

Enjoy the game.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:56 pm 
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And don't forget that your White Lions and Phoenix Guard have Assassins in them.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:09 am 
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HERO wrote:
First, I do not know what the Everqueen's updated profiles look like or what rules have changed.

Second, the Eternity King's army is godlike out of control good. It seriously takes all the units that are powerful in all 3 books and puts it in one place. On top of that, it allows you to mix and match all the magic. On top of that, it gives you the most ridiculous rulings of all: combined Martial Prowess and Murderous Prowess. On top of that, Malekith is actually good, and his presence alone gives you a Lv.5 Shadow Wizard with an undispellable Walk Between Worlds and makes your Martial Prowess fight in 2 ranks and Murderous Prowess re-roll all wounds within 12" of him.

Too good. Too good. :^o

I would start off like this:
Eternity King army
Malekith, Shadow Lv.5
AM with Book of Hoeth, High Magic (anti-KFC)
Lv.1 High Mage, or Heavens
Master BSB 1+ RR
Witch Elves Core +1 move
Silver Helms Core
Fill rest with Dark Riders
Big unit White Lions BotWD
Big unit Phoenix Guard, AP Banner
2x Phoenixes
2x Warlocks
2x Great Eagles
Fill the rest with as many RBTs as I have points since its now in Special and Rare

Enjoy the game.


What's that? 5000 points? 10.000?

Try making a 2400 point list and tell me why it's stronger than uncomped VC, DoC, SK, EMP.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:08 am 
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Martial Prowess Darkshards seem superior to glade guard in the confines of min core, anyone else agree? Prince auto becomes dreadlord, and Bolt throwers from special is also superior.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:14 am 
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Looks like "Dark Elves with High Elves rules" to me.

We'll all be collecting Dark Elves by default :P

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:30 am 
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Baleanoon wrote:
Martial Prowess Darkshards seem superior to glade guard in the confines of min core, anyone else agree? Prince auto becomes dreadlord, and Bolt throwers from special is also superior.
I was thinking that myself. Glade guard have slightly longer range, but the potential to rapidshot with multiple ranks, still with AP... that's a LOT of dice. A big regiment of Glade Guard using volley fire might still come out ahead in firepower... but by the time you had a unit that big, you could have had two units of Darkshards.

High Elf archers have certainly been pretty much entirely obsoleted in any of these lists - when they have the same rules as Darkshards and Glade Guard where the two prowesses are concerned, there really is basically no point.

Mind you, from a fluff perspective... this might actually be realistic development. The point of the citizen levies was to make up for a drastically depleted warrior caste - in a situation where the Dark Elves are brought back into the fold and the Elves are no longer having to defend a wide coastline with an increasingly sparse population, I could see it working out that the former Dark Elves become the core of the new Elven army, while Citizen Levy soldiers become reservists rather than frontline soldiers. The exceptions would be those High Elf units that do regard themselves as professional soldiers - many of which probably would still have places in THOTPK or even THOTEK.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:43 am 
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many of which probably would still have places in THOTPK or even THOTEK.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:52 am 
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Dreadlord - 262
w/ Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Dark Steed
Giant Blade, Dawnstone

Archmage - 275
Level 4 (Lore of Shadow)
Book of Hoeth

Master - 148
w/ Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Lance, Dark Steed
Cloak of Twilight

Master - 124
w/ Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Great Weapon, Dark Steed
Dragon helm, Obsidian Amulet

Noble - 164
Battle Standard Bearer
w/ Heavy Armour, Shield, Barded Elven Steed
Banner of the World Dragon

17 Darkshards - 251
w/Musician, Standard; Banner of Eternal Flame, Shields

15 Silver Helms - 375
w/ Shields, High Helm, Musician, Standard

Core sorted for 2500 pts.

Special

21 Phoenix Guard - 365
w/Keeper of the Flame, Musician, Standard; Razor Standard

3 x Reaper Boltthrower - 210

12x Warlocks - 300

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:55 am 
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The host of the Phoenix King and Eternity King respectively.

Seriously though, HotEK might be the best all cav army in the game. I'm starting to really love how no one wants to play Watch tower.

Can just deploy 3 15 man lances, and pick the right unit to put your characters in

BotWD Dragon Princes

Warlocks (you can also fit a MR item here)

Silver Helms

I was really feeling silver helms but a Dragon prince deathstar is tempting, swapping the Silver helms for more dark shards, and the Pg for dragon princes with Star lance , and BotWD. Might actually work out a bit cheaper since you get to drop the noble. Since HE characters are just inferior to DE characters. Dragon Princes with Murderous Prowess, and Warlocks with Martial Prowess no one buses like Elves bus.

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