Ulthuan

aurynn wrote:On Maxwells post:

Is it just me or is anyone else thinking that the state of the Elves at the end of the Khaine book is not the final one? Moving all remaining Elves to the Old World is a very big thing in my opinion and we will see much more happening there. Its all really starting to look like the means to an end and that the plots and twists will not end by this resettlement.

I actually agree with this.

Firstly, I'll state whilst I haven't read the book yet, from what I've seen the writing is horrendous and the direction GW has gone with this is mind boggling. There was SO much more potential.

However, at the same time, I don't think the Elves are done yet. It may say they have no future, but I think 9th edition will show a different story. We're in the apocalypse now and everything appears bleak.

I think by the end of the End Times, Malekith will be dead (and needs to be). Alarielle, Nagash and every other one of the "Chosen Eight" probably will be killed off too. Some major characters might survive, but I think it will be few and far between. Archaon will die. I think Teclis will die too.

Hell, when the End Times are finished, some or all of the Chaos Gods themselves may be dead.

GW is planning to start anew with 9th edition I think. Everything will be scaled back in power and possibly in time too..GW aren't about to obsolete all their miniatures.

I god... I sure hope they don't scale back in time... Im already questioning if I want to continue playing this game... If they're going to say that the end times just... "Kinda" happened... I'm pretty sure I'd flip and just burn everything I have. Haha

Scaling back time? nooo.. I dont see that happening. There is no reason to. A "new world order" is much more likely. Or transfer to a new world with Lizardmen leading the way. Or just a cataclysmic event that will reshape the world.

I definitely dont think that any of the chaos gods will die. The four gods are a very good piece of fluff and iconic and a direct influence to some armies, unlike other gods.

Rhana Dandra as written in Khaine might mean "the last battle of elf against elf", contrary to the general belief of it being the last battle of elves against someone else.

The "no future" quote might just mean that they have no future living together.

By scale back in time, I didn't really mean pretending the End Times stuff never happened...more like an alternative past based on the outcomes of the ET.

Anyway, I really think the ET means a huge shakeup. There are several possibilities:

1. GW is trying to bring Warhammer Fantasy in its current form to a close (End Times) so it can scale back its development resources (i.e. money saving exercise). This could mean that 9th edition will be basically a completely different game - perhaps based on smaller armies or even warbands type game. In this scenario, all the Gods (inc Chaos Gods) could very well die in the end times.

2. GW wants to simplify the game, making an easier learning curve for new players and streamlining the extreme amount of rules. The outcome of the end times could be a good way of leading into 9th edition as a much more streamlined, balanced and simpler game with less army books (not necessarily less lists) and for future development, less new units and models to be developed.

3. GW just wants to shock players through the fluff, keep them invested in the End Times with new army lists and milk as much money from it as they can, then let the game gradually slide into oblivion. 9th edition could see them pull back on everything, from development to models to lore to rules etc.

The Rhana Dandra concept is another 40K import, from where it's explicitly the final battle against Chaos. Now, it's curious that they're the same words in each language, since there's a lot of deviation between Eldar and Elven languages elsewhere apart from the names of the gods, but I'd be surprised if they've invoked the concept of the Rhana Dandra without it meaning the same thing.

What I could see happening is:

Slaanesh is defeated... with a prophetic warning that he has not been destroyed entirely, and that a sufficient quantity of hedonism would cause him to be reborn.

As per the plan of the Old Ones, each race is sent to a seperate new world to be their new home.

CaledorRises wrote: It's revolution time......

Curu Olannon wrote: and Malekith a boosted cockroach

- Low blow!

No way to talk about the last Phoenix King and chosen of Asuryan

Also: Doombolt and boosted Doombolt.

From the Dark Elf armoury: Peg Lord with Cloak & Frostblade + Peg Lord with Ogre Blade and Black Amulet. Charging with D3 wounds potentially removing his attacks + challenging to reflect his D3+1 wounds against him.

But I honestly don't think these End Times lists are supposed to be balanced, just a bit of Apocalypse scale fun for Fantasy Battle.

T.D. wrote:

CaledorRises wrote: It's revolution time......

Do you hear the Asur sing, singing the song of angry elves? It is the music of a people who will not serve Malekith. When the dragons fly again, and Gav Thorpe is in a noose, we will rise again and get a new phoenix king!

Alarielle pledges to marry Malekith?? that just makes me feel sick.

I can see WE and HE joining together, but we're supposed to think the DE just turn all nice and good cause Malejkith says so? I'll wait to see which DE tries to stab him in the back first. Ugh.

On another note, remember part of the reason GW is doing ET is so that they can copyright everything as their own. Tons of characters and fluff has to die for that. Generic fanatsy just won't cut it, I expect 9th to bring even more changes to army lists as it all gets GW-ized.

From those rumors I can see 3 different books still for elves

1: Malekith and Arielle leading the elves

2: Imrik and the nobles

3: Alith Anar & the wood elves

either way, I will stand against this oppression braveheart style!

Screw the rest of them!

Btw...if true we might have to rename for forum

Pavisel wrote: I'll wait to see which DE tries to stab him in the back first. Ugh.

I'd do it

So none of the faction lists feature Malus Darkblade...
New dark elf faction maybe? Doubt he would get killed off

wamphyri101 wrote:Btw...if true we might have to rename for forum

No way. The Loremaster Council will keep Ulthuan afloat. Maybe not untouched, but very much alive. Trust us.

wamphyri101 wrote:So none of the faction lists feature Malus Darkblade...
New dark elf faction maybe? Doubt he would get killed off

Yeah, the Really Dark Elves. DE is going to be pretty boring without witches and exes and all that other khanite fun, and the hydras and cold ones will be very confused people start treating them nicely.

This is really not going to end well for the DE.


As for the name here:

The piece of ocean that was Ulthuan.Net

T.D. wrote:

Pavisel wrote: I'll wait to see which DE tries to stab him in the back first. Ugh.

I'd do it

I'll help you hide the body

Maxwell123 wrote:By scale back in time, I didn't really mean pretending the End Times stuff never happened...more like an alternative past based on the outcomes of the ET.

Anyway, I really think the ET means a huge shakeup. There are several possibilities:

1. GW is trying to bring Warhammer Fantasy in its current form to a close (End Times) so it can scale back its development resources (i.e. money saving exercise). This could mean that 9th edition will be basically a completely different game - perhaps based on smaller armies or even warbands type game. In this scenario, all the Gods (inc Chaos Gods) could very well die in the end times.

2. GW wants to simplify the game, making an easier learning curve for new players and streamlining the extreme amount of rules. The outcome of the end times could be a good way of leading into 9th edition as a much more streamlined, balanced and simpler game with less army books (not necessarily less lists) and for future development, less new units and models to be developed.

3. GW just wants to shock players through the fluff, keep them invested in the End Times with new army lists and milk as much money from it as they can, then let the game gradually slide into oblivion. 9th edition could see them pull back on everything, from development to models to lore to rules etc.

I would say those would be pretty smart marketing moves. Let's be clear GW work in some strange cycles and they drove Fantasy down. Why ?
8th edition is over complicated game with expensive models and you need lots of them. Game is hardly playable at less then 2000. Rules are more and more complicated.

They need huge shake-up. Like at the end of 5th edition.
And back in the days they make correct choices and for me 6th edition was awesome.
Playable even at 600pts, and as hardcore tournament player I enjoyed 1200 pts games a lot.
Fewer special rules, rules were easy to grasp.
Almost every army got new models. In my area there were tournaments that everyone could attend - 600/1200 pts.
It didn't need any comp system because everything was fairly balanced.

If the pull similar move with 9th I'm on board. Frankly fewer but bigger AB (Kingdom of Man, Elves, Undead, Chaos,O&G with Ogres) wouldn't alienate players who right now need to wait for AB for years and also would be easier to balance everything nicely. Also it would save them money - every DE, WE,HE player will buy Elves book instead of printing, writing, playtesting 3 books.

I don't buy the story that they want to kill WFB as there is a lot of potential money in it just to kill it. Worst or best case scenariu they will sell it.

Imrik Gwindorian wrote:

T.D. wrote:

CaledorRises wrote: It's revolution time......

Do you hear the Asur sing, singing the song of angry elves? It is the music of a people who will not serve Malekith. When the dragons fly again, and Gav Thorpe is in a noose, we will rise again and get a new phoenix king!

There was a time when the Asur were strong,
when their magic was light
and their swords shone brightly
There was a time when Malekith was wrong,
and the Kings were noble,
and the throne was mighty.
There was a time
But Gav Thorpe was ignoble.

I dreamed a dream in time gone by,
When Asuryan was good
and Dark Elves evil
I dreamed that Tyrion would never die,
I dreamed that Asuryan was not forgiving.

I dreamed that Khaine would be,
So different from this hell the Asur are living
So different now from what the Pheonix seemed
Now Thorpe has killed
The dream I dreamed

I can see WE and HE joining together, but we're supposed to think the DE just turn all nice and good cause Malejkith says so? I'll wait to see which DE tries to stab him in the back first. Ugh.

That's actually kind of funny. Could imagine how that board meeting must have looked...

"So... Our Eternal King has spoken. He'd like to push forward some changes. First of all, we're going to be fighting along side some other elves, so I'd really need everyone to go home and take a shower, you all stink and the dirt on your faces makes you look almost... too evil. Secondly, everyone is going to have to get rid of your little hatred towards elves. HR called and they said that the hatred we have is giving them a PR nightmare. Lastly, our marketing department said that we needed to "reimagine" our branding... so from now on, all you witches and sisters need to put on a couple more layers of clothes to cover up and please take the How to act like a Elven Lady 101 class as soon as possible. Also... get rid of that cauldron filled with blood! Polls have come in and it's not looking pretty. Pour that stuff out and fill it with water, I think the elves that we're working with enjoy water fountains more than boiling blood baths. That is all. "Long live the Eternal King!"

Aicanor wrote:

wamphyri101 wrote:Btw...if true we might have to rename for forum

No way. The Loremaster Council will keep Ulthuan afloat. Maybe not untouched, but very much alive. Trust us.

That sounds like a political campaign slogan. And last time you promised that Ulthuan shall never fall.

ArcaneSnow wrote:

I can see WE and HE joining together, but we're supposed to think the DE just turn all nice and good cause Malejkith says so? I'll wait to see which DE tries to stab him in the back first. Ugh.

That's actually kind of funny. Could imagine how that board meeting must have looked...

"So... Our Eternal King has spoken. He'd like to push forward some changes. First of all, we're going to be fighting along side some other elves, so I'd really need everyone to go home and take a shower, you all stink and the dirt on your faces makes you look almost... too evil. Secondly, everyone is going to have to get rid of your little hatred towards elves. HR called and they said that the hatred we have is giving them a PR nightmare. Lastly, our marketing department said that we needed to "reimagine" our branding... so from now on, all you witches and sisters need to put on a couple more layers of clothes to cover up and please take the How to act like a Elven Lady 101 class as soon as possible. Also... get rid of that cauldron filled with blood! Polls have come in and it's not looking pretty. Pour that stuff out and fill it with water, I think the elves that we're working with enjoy water fountains more than boiling blood baths. That is all. "Long live the Eternal King!"

Sir, the female Wardancers aren't really wearing a whole lot of clothes either, so while I'd agree that they need a rebranding we might not need to fight with them over the clothing issue. Perhaps we could suggest that they wear warpaint as a compromise - I don't understand it myself, but it does seem to be somehow more acceptable than bare skin. Possibly because it makes it art or something? Either way, they should avoid reds and other blood-related colours to avoid giving our new allies flashbacks. Blues and greens should be safe.

But they do need to start bathing in water instead of blood. Seriously.

Yes. Warpaint is a good compromise. You sir can be in charge of warpainting all the harpies in our army. Also, tell them they must turn vegans or at least vegetarian for the duration of this alliance. Once again. PR Nightmare if they continue down this path.

I'll prepare a scheme in blues and greys for your consideration. Vegetarianism may be pushing it too far, but our allies do seem to understand the concept of hunting for food. We might be able to wean them off elven and human flesh to something that our allies will find less... objectionable.

I think me and you have successful resolved centuries of civil warfare. Lets celebrate over elven ale and call it a day. Come to think of it.. there's really no need to get involved. We should just sit back with a drink in hand and just watch as Archaeon slowly charges into Nagash. I've got 5 silver pieces on the necromancer.

Ale? What are we, dwarves? Please, if you're too cheap for wine, at least choose something with a little bit of class like mead instead of that beard swill!

Historians Note: Alas, the unity of the Elves for the End Times was not to last. Shortly after the mortal races defeated Chaos against all predictions, disagreements that had been put aside during the Rhana Dandra came to blows, and the conflict between the Ale Elves and the Mead Elves dragged on for a thousand years until the two sides had fought each other to extinction, while the "No, Really, Drink What You Like, It's Not Worth Killing Each Other Over" Elves could only watch in horror and dismay.

That's interesting. It's not use the rules "if both players agree" it's these "must be used" "if either player wants to".

Shannar, Sealord wrote:That's interesting. It's not use the rules "if both players agree" it's these "must be used" "if either player wants to".

Ya, but realistically, here's NOT how that conversation goes:

"Hey Steve, ready to play?"
"Sure Mike, can't wait to try out the new magic rules!"
"Ya, you know Steve, I'm not interested in using them, doesn't sound fun..."
"But Mike, look here, it says since I want to use them, you HAVE to!"
"Oh, ok Steve, since the rules that I don't want to use tell me I have to use the rules I don't want to use, I guess we have to use the rules I don't want to use"

Couple points from the other page:

1) Boosted spells: Can't recast a spell if the last casting attempt of that spell failed, or the last attempt was a boosted version with a final casting value of 15+
2) recasting is forbidden for -failed casting attempts-. I'm guessing dispelled spells can still be cast again as long as you didn't fail the spell.

Shadeseraph wrote:

The real enigma here is in the details. Read the requirements for magic. Now read bullet points 2 and 3. What are the new units of bullet point #3? They clearly aren't elven units, and if they are, they can't be used with any of the elven armies (since they don't appear in any of the Elven Hosts. So these new units probably aren't for elves, but who are they for and are miniatures coming?

Well High Elves magic just went to silly degrees. So Loremaster of Hoeth now knows every single BRB spell. Teclis also knows every brb spell, plus end times spells. And the Everqueen knows every spell from Life, Light and High. Does anyone else have spell selections like this?

Also with the D6 to see how many dice you're allowed to use rule I feel High Magic got a lot more powerful, because almost every spell can be realistically cast on 1 or 2 dice, so you'll almost never find out you're short on dice and have those go to waste.

Hey, the Loremaster of Hoeth now truly deserves his name! He doesn't have access to End Time spells, but he does know 56 other spells!