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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:59 am 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
:: How to kill: Malekith the Eternity King - a Guide by Olannon ::
- Banishment
- Searing Doom
- More Banishment
- More Searing Doom
- Magical Close Combat Attacks
- Magical Shooting
- More Magical Close Combat Attacks
- More Magical Shooting

Happy hunting!


He'll dispel your Searing Doom and Banishment faster than you can cast them unless you get lucky and he gets unlucky on the number of dice you can roll.

He has 10 wounds. Magical Close Combat Attacks, from pretty much anything, won't be able to bring down T6, W10 fast enough before he joyfully cleaves his way through whatever you sent after him.

Magical Shooting is not that big of an option. There aren't that many armies that can reliably spit out the quantity of shooting needed to bring him down, while also being Magical.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:12 am 
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CaledorRises wrote:
Magical Shooting is not that big of an option. There aren't that many armies that can reliably spit out the quantity of shooting needed to bring him down, while also being Magical.


You mean like Wood Elf Glade Guard that can all take poisoned arrows which are magical? WE's have been dealing with big monsters this way for a while now.

And look! You can now use them in your HE and DE armies.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:13 am 
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He'll what? Dispel 3 casts every single magic phase? Come on man, he's not even remotely -that- broken.

Oh and as for his Magical Close Combat Attacks, say hello to my BOTWD-unit with Allarielle. He'll stay away, trust me.

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Magical Shooting is not that big of an option. There aren't that many armies that can reliably spit out the quantity of shooting needed to bring him down, while also being Magical.


While true, it is available to many by ways of Enchanted Blades of Aiban. Wood Elves have magical shooting all over the place, Chaos Dwarfs have it readily available and DoC/WoC have some options.

Don't get me wrong: He is strong. However, unlike Karl Franz, he has weaknesses. Karl Franz has but a single weakness and that is Malekith. It's like rock-paper-scissors-nuclear bomb-cockroach where Karl Franz is the nuke and Malekith a boosted cockroach ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:24 am 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
Don't get me wrong: He is strong. However, unlike Karl Franz, he has weaknesses. Karl Franz has but a single weakness and that is Malekith. It's like rock-paper-scissors-nuclear bomb-cockroach where Karl Franz is the nuke and Malekith a boosted cockroach ;)


Yeah, other than Malekith, I'm still trying to figure how to deal with AKF. His combination of offense and defense is way too perfect.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:30 am 
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I've not been playing Fantasy terribly long, so maybe I'm just not as invested in it as some people, but everybody really seems to be forgetting that it wouldn't be a new thing to have dead characters in an army list. It's happened in Fantasy and 40K on a number of occasions. Eldrad's still leading an awful lot of Eldar forces despite being eaten by the core of a Blackstone Fortress, and Vlad was certainly still spry for a guy that was D-E-D dead (you know, until he recently became de-deaded again.) Some characters that have died in other armies have very new models, so we can be pretty certain it's not as though their rules are going to disappear from future publications.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:12 am 
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Well, he will have a good number of dispel dice and you can bet he will be focusing them on your banishments. Then, he has a higher + to dispel than you have to cast. Also, he only has to stop your banishments until he gets into close combat. On a dragon, that's not too long to wait.

Okay, but what if I don't have elves. WE shooting prowess is all good, yeah that's definitely an option, but then again, it's 10W. That's a lot to shoot off before he charges you and destroys your archers. However, the main point is what if I'm using my Lizardmen or something like that? I'm kind of doomed unless I get some special magic off, but then comes the problem that he's a Level 5 trying to dispel my magic. He can do it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems really hard.


KFA should now be much easier to kill, at least for Elves and Lizardmen. Just spam Arcane Unforging across the board and when he loses Ghal Maraz and his little Amulet he's not such hot stuff anymore. You can easily spam Arcane Unforging now, with that +5 to cast bonus and 4d6 dice with multiple castings, KFA is eating most of the Lord points and doesn't have any ability to dispel your spams.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:26 am 
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ArcaneSnow wrote:
...hmm... wonder whats the fantasy equivalent to space marines.. haha
Chaos Warriors. (To Chaos Marines, anyway.)

Arguably, you could say Brets or Dwarfs if you don't want to be linked to Chaos, but Chaos is a lot more popular than either.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:29 am 
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Can Imrik be used in a non-endtimes game?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:02 am 
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I thought that "Survivors" army would be something different but it seems it is just lazy combination of all three Elven armies with their characteristic army wide special rules merged together.

Sure, we can play warhammer as we used to but there is nothing preventing GW from incorporating these rules/armies into core system either with FAQ or new edition. They can keep the core rules as they are and use ET as a separate campaign. But since they already allowed 50% characters in any other games why would they stop there?

Players have a choice of course, what to play or include in their games. But if their version of the game is not supported then it might not be that viable choice either. Some TO's incorporate some of the rules already.

There are still too many unknowns and that makes the whole decision making process so difficult.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:11 am 
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CaledorRises wrote:
Well, he will have a good number of dispel dice and you can bet he will be focusing them on your banishments. Then, he has a higher + to dispel than you have to cast.


He does? Any Lv4 with Ancient Blessing has a +5 to cast in a forest, so that's totally equal footing. If a Level 5 dispelling was so incredibly over the top Teclis would dictate every magic phase, but he doesn't. +1 is not the end of the world. Now if you're trying to get spells off with a Level 1 or 2 then yes Level 5 is very scary, but it does not give him the phase against a level 4 by any stretch.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:16 am 
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
There are still too many unknowns and that makes the whole decision making process so difficult.


QFT. In 2015 GW may decide to erase the entire end times run with a new edition, backtracking us to the start of 8th in the timeline. I'd be mighty upset if I went out and bought a bunch of WE or DE to go with my HE force.

Or - they could decide that a combined elf list will go forward into 9th edition, but maybe there are too many units in the current combined list. So they release the new elf armybook with only 1/3 of the units, picked from the former HE,DE, & WE armybooks. Well... now I've got units, lets say Swordmasters, who aren't in this combined armybook. Only later do they get some sort of battle-scroll or supplement with rules, and until then they are just sharpening their swords waiting...

Currently I've put my fantasy army buying/painting on hold until this stuff gets sorted. I'd love to add some wood elves (or even dark elves) to my force, but I'd hate to invest and have it backfire.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:50 am 
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Domine Nox wrote:
CaledorRises wrote:
Well, he will have a good number of dispel dice and you can bet he will be focusing them on your banishments. Then, he has a higher + to dispel than you have to cast.


He does? Any Lv4 with Ancient Blessing has a +5 to cast in a forest, so that's totally equal footing. If a Level 5 dispelling was so incredibly over the top Teclis would dictate every magic phase, but he doesn't. +1 is not the end of the world. Now if you're trying to get spells off with a Level 1 or 2 then yes Level 5 is very scary, but it does not give him the phase against a level 4 by any stretch.


You're neglecting the only use D6 dice part though. That potentially shifts things a fair bit.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:23 am 
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Shannar, Sealord wrote:
You're neglecting the only use D6 dice part though. That potentially shifts things a fair bit.


That part can also mean that Malekith ends up only getting to use 1 or 2 dice each time then. If I get to use 3 dice, and he is using 1. His level is laughable. Means to dispel effectively you A) need the dice B) Have the opponent preferably get a low number of dice to cast with C) get an equal or better number of dice to dispel with and D) roll equal or better that the caster. That requires a LOT of luck to go your way that a +1 will mean almost nothing compared to. Since that takes all the strategy out of the magic phase, it's now "Hope I roll the number of dice I need and the amount on those dice I need."

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:39 am 
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Domine Nox wrote:
Shannar, Sealord wrote:
You're neglecting the only use D6 dice part though. That potentially shifts things a fair bit.


That part can also mean that Malekith ends up only getting to use 1 or 2 dice each time then. If I get to use 3 dice, and he is using 1. His level is laughable. Means to dispel effectively you A) need the dice B) Have the opponent preferably get a low number of dice to cast with C) get an equal or better number of dice to dispel with and D) roll equal or better that the caster. That requires a LOT of luck to go your way that a +1 will mean almost nothing compared to. Since that takes all the strategy out of the magic phase, it's now "Hope I roll the number of dice I need and the amount on those dice I need."


Yes. In a vacuum. But the I've found it easier in generate power dice than dispel dice in general, meaning I've more to roll when casting. These rolls limit the chances of getting spells to actually work (due to to few dice) and also increase the chances that I'll be able to roll as many/more dispell dice than the caster. This is only relevant to your earlier telcis comparison. But in the new environment the value of the comparison is limited at best.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:43 am 
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Caesura wrote:
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
There are still too many unknowns and that makes the whole decision making process so difficult.


QFT. In 2015 GW may decide to erase the entire end times run with a new edition, backtracking us to the start of 8th in the timeline. I'd be mighty upset if I went out and bought a bunch of WE or DE to go with my HE force.

Or - they could decide that a combined elf list will go forward into 9th edition, but maybe there are too many units in the current combined list. So they release the new elf armybook with only 1/3 of the units, picked from the former HE,DE, & WE armybooks. Well... now I've got units, lets say Swordmasters, who aren't in this combined armybook. Only later do they get some sort of battle-scroll or supplement with rules, and until then they are just sharpening their swords waiting...

Currently I've put my fantasy army buying/painting on hold until this stuff gets sorted. I'd love to add some wood elves (or even dark elves) to my force, but I'd hate to invest and have it backfire.
If the combined list does end up becoming official, then I could see there being a long list of 'counts as' rules. If Asuryan is removed from the picture as some have speculated, then the Phoenix Guard could lose their supernatural powers and end up with rules similar to a less evil Black Guard. Executioners might be weaned off their devotion to Khaine and turned into Swordmasters (but some still have their old equipment...). All Spearmen might become the same unit with different equipment (apart from Eternal Guard they effectively are in THOTEK anyway), White Lions and Wildwood Rangers might merge into a 'defenders against forest dangers' unit with lion cloaks as an equipment option, Witch Elves and Sisters of Slaughter could merge with Wardancers... and so on. There are a lot of units across the elven kindreds that are similar enough in equipment, and even in theme, that if the broader differences between High, Dark and Wood Elves were smoothed out, then many of those units could also come to merge together so that few if any models become unusable even if the number of mechanically distinct units is much smaller.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:36 am 
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If this is the way it is going forward, no more Asur, no more Ulthuan, just this mess of units led by dark elves in Loren, well I'm out. The whole thing comes off like some really shit dark elf fan fiction. Oh never mind that you allied with daemons to burn and rape your homeland, you were a worthy king all along, even though you pussied out of the test. Wood Elves have pretty much been brushed aside. They've killed off my 3 favourite characters, and Korhil, what's it cost the dark elves, Morathi dies, half of them wanted that to happen. I've collected high elves for 20 years and 2 months, this feels like someone's messed with my child. If I'd wanted to play dark elves, I would have bought dark elves. Killing off Teclis...it's genuinely upsetting. Given that they didn't even release any models with this, has it honestly served any purpose other than massively alienating high elf and wood elf players? It's like my enthusiasm for the game has been crushed with one clumsy blow. It's so staggeringly ill judged. If this is the future, and this end times stuff is permanent, well I think ill be ebaying most of my 12000+ points. I don't want to play an army that will just be a reminder of how gw destroyed something that felt so personal to me. I'm trying to not take it so badly but it genuinely is making be bitter and angry. I'm in gw for gaming tomorrow, ill be letting the manager know, this is not ok.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:47 am 
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Teclis may not appear in the Host of the Eternity King, but apparently it isn't confirmed he is dead yet.

From Warseer:

Quote:
I searched through the whole ebook for his name, and it doesn't appear that he dies. Tyrion tries to kill him while he is unmaking the Vortex, but gets thwarted by both his own horse, Malhandir, who realizes that he isn't carrying Tyrion towards evil, but is actually bearing it. He throws Tyrion off, and while he doesn't change his mind about wanting to kill Teclis, Seraphon steps in before Malekith and Tyrion duel.
Teclis's plan succeeds, but I don't see him being brought up as either alive or dead afterwards. The next time he is mentioned is in the final paragraphs I quoted before.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:54 am 
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Maxwell123 wrote:
Teclis may not appear in the Host of the Eternity King, but apparently it isn't confirmed he is dead yet.

From Warseer:

Quote:
I searched through the whole ebook for his name, and it doesn't appear that he dies. Tyrion tries to kill him while he is unmaking the Vortex, but gets thwarted by both his own horse, Malhandir, who realizes that he isn't carrying Tyrion towards evil, but is actually bearing it. He throws Tyrion off, and while he doesn't change his mind about wanting to kill Teclis, Seraphon steps in before Malekith and Tyrion duel.
Teclis's plan succeeds, but I don't see him being brought up as either alive or dead afterwards. The next time he is mentioned is in the final paragraphs I quoted before.


A ray of hope! Thanks man I needed that.

I did notice malus darkblade didn't appear to be in any of the lists either, but ppl haven't said he's dead, so maybe there's something else going on.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:35 am 
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Ielthan wrote:
Maxwell123 wrote:
Teclis may not appear in the Host of the Eternity King, but apparently it isn't confirmed he is dead yet.

From Warseer:

Quote:
I searched through the whole ebook for his name, and it doesn't appear that he dies. Tyrion tries to kill him while he is unmaking the Vortex, but gets thwarted by both his own horse, Malhandir, who realizes that he isn't carrying Tyrion towards evil, but is actually bearing it. He throws Tyrion off, and while he doesn't change his mind about wanting to kill Teclis, Seraphon steps in before Malekith and Tyrion duel.
Teclis's plan succeeds, but I don't see him being brought up as either alive or dead afterwards. The next time he is mentioned is in the final paragraphs I quoted before.


A ray of hope! Thanks man I needed that.

I did notice malus darkblade didn't appear to be in any of the lists either, but ppl haven't said he's dead, so maybe there's something else going on.


Same with Orion, who doesn't appear in the Eternity King list either (a particularly huge omission for WE players), but that doesn't mean he is dead necessarily.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:59 am 
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Ielthan wrote:
I did notice malus darkblade didn't appear to be in any of the lists either, but ppl haven't said he's dead, so maybe there's something else going on.


He is inferred in the Nagash book to be leading a DE rebellion against Malekith at home. Probably need the novel to clarify what is going on, but I've no plans to expose my self to Thorpe's writing ever again, so I will just wait for the next army book and 9th.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:34 am 
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Ielthan wrote:
If this is the way it is going forward, no more Asur, no more Ulthuan, just this mess of units led by dark elves in Loren, well I'm out. The whole thing comes off like some really shit dark elf fan fiction. Oh never mind that you allied with daemons to burn and rape your homeland, you were a worthy king all along, even though you pussied out of the test. Wood Elves have pretty much been brushed aside. They've killed off my 3 favourite characters, and Korhil, what's it cost the dark elves, Morathi dies, half of them wanted that to happen. I've collected high elves for 20 years and 2 months, this feels like someone's messed with my child. If I'd wanted to play dark elves, I would have bought dark elves. Killing off Teclis...it's genuinely upsetting. Given that they didn't even release any models with this, has it honestly served any purpose other than massively alienating high elf and wood elf players? It's like my enthusiasm for the game has been crushed with one clumsy blow. It's so staggeringly ill judged. If this is the future, and this end times stuff is permanent, well I think ill be ebaying most of my 12000+ points. I don't want to play an army that will just be a reminder of how gw destroyed something that felt so personal to me. I'm trying to not take it so badly but it genuinely is making be bitter and angry. I'm in gw for gaming tomorrow, ill be letting the manager know, this is not ok.


I feel you. I never even considered that this is all just a big push from GW telling everyone to just go and play DEs. You are so right! So much built up anger with these decisions right now.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:36 am 
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Soooo... to get bit off the topic of purely Khaine...

Who do you think will team up with whom next? Apparently teaming is the thing and I cant imagine the other armies being left in the void or discontinued...

Heard a whispered rumour bout Dwarves + Ogres, which would leave Orks and Lizardmen and Skaven running wild...

Another possibility is that the End Times teams will break up and reshuffle afterwards, forming different aliances based on armies of Destruction and Order...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:47 am 
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This is a slap to the balls not the face. Frankly I could rant endlessly about the inane stupidity and the unbalanced nature of the ET books, and how much it sucks playing in the uncomped Midwest.

Most of the fluff has been atrocious and this book unlike Nagash or even in compared to Glotkin looks like a money-grabbing fanboyism -I'm not sure if I will be playing the game any longer let alone buying the book any longer. My one hope was my favorite characters Teclis and Anar doing deus ex machina master minded plans or actions -they're hardly mentioned . . . Thursday may kill my game/hobby for good. Ebaying everything including fully converted Bret army that will only be crushed and their "ultimate" embodiment of their race Guy gets used as a punching bag, or simple plot device will ultimately be the only option. #flamesofwarhereicome #warmachinehereicome


Last edited by Trains_Get_Robbed on Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:48 am 
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The OPness of these Endtimes lists cannot be overstated.

A virtually invincible combination:
Malekith, the Eternity King + Alarielle, Incarnate of Life in a larger battle. Within 12" of Alarielle, Malekith would be completely unkillable.

His ward save may only work against magical attacks, but within 12" of Alarielle he would gain Regeneration and therefore use a 4+ Regeneration save instead, which would work against magical attacks (though not flaming attacks).
Combine that with Malekith only ever suffering 1 wound from killing blow, Heroic Killing Blow and multiple wound attacks. Throw in the Star of Avelorn which she could use to heal 1 wound to Malekith at the start of every movement phase, plus Lifebloom attribute from Lore of Life which Alarielle could use to restore 1 wound to Malekith every time she casts a successful spell. On top of that, there's the Incarnate of Life, which insta restores 1 wound to every wounded model within 12" of her at start of friendly magic phase.
Malekith as it is wouldn't suffer more than 3 wounds a turn from anyone, but within 12" of Alarielle he would be healed 3+ wounds each turn.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:50 am 
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On a separate note, is it confirmed whether the Host of the Eternity King will fall under the forces of Order or Destruction?

Sure, Order seems the most obvious, but as Dark Elves were Destruction, whilst High Elves/Wood Elves were Order, it does require clarification from GW.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:07 am 
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MAJOR SPOILERS

From Darth McBob the Warseer forums:

Quote:
Ok, now having finished the book, some spoilers:

*Blessing Malekith apparently took the last bit of mojo Asuryan had. He's pretty much dead now, barring the power residing in Malekith.

*Hotek is still alive, becomes Vaul's avatar long enough to reforge Malekith's sword (which Tyrion destroyed) into Asuryath, then kills himself with it.

*Orion dies against Tyrion in the battle for Averlorn.

*Alarielle pledges to marry Malekith after the war is won.

*Teclis knows his plan to bind the winds of magic will sink Ulthuan, but Alarielle says they can go hang in Athel Loren afterwords.

*Malekith initially forbids the plan, only agreeing when Tyrion is on the verge of victory.

*Final battle takes place on the Isle of the Dead.

*Tyrion uses the Widowmaker to summon undead from the surrounding waters to compliment his army. Five buried Phoenix Kings, including Finubar, are among them.

*Malekith summons fiery spirits of all ten post-Aenarion Phoenix Kings to fight back. Then, with Asuryan's magic, he calls up every single hero ever to lay down their lives for the elves, including Eltharion the Grim.

*This forces Tyrion to charge himself, but also messes up Teclis' spells to unravel the vortex.

*Tyrion tries to charge Teclis while he's distracted, Malhandir throws him off.

*Tyrion goes for Teclis anyway. Malekith tries to run him down with his dragon, but Morathi calls out in time for him to avoid it. Morathi shoots down the dragon and Tyrion is on Malekith.

*It takes a while, but Tyrion is beating Malekith in a straight fight. He shatters Malekith's sword a second time.

*Alith Anar shoots Tyrion just as he's about to land the final blow.

*Malekith almost dies, but is saved by being bound to the Wind of Shadow.

*Alarielle is the vessel of the Wind of Life, her presence reinvigorating wounded elves.

*Alith Anar also shot Malekith in the back.

*Alarielle mourns Tyrion, who looks handsome again in death.

*Malekith picks up Widowmaker, which has become an ordinary sword. He tosses it into the ocean.

*Ulthuan starts sinking, Alarielle has to evacuate everybody to Athel Loren.

*Alith Anar is the original, and he shot Malekith as a warning. The arrow tip is next to his heart, and according to him can't be removed. It causes constant pain. He says he'll kill Malekith with the net if he fails.

*Alarielle, now married to Malekith, says that Morei-heg won't pulling the strings of fate anymore. Presumably she is dead.

*Malekith, when alone, reveals he's already removed Alith's arrowhead.

*The book end with the elves chilling in Athel Loren, but with the quote that they have no future.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:08 am 
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Guess we'll find out soon enough. Either Malekith has seen the light of day and will fight evil with gooder-orderly-evil... or... he'll just rain down more evil like the chaos. only difference is that he doesn't want a new model for himself because he's content with a extremely overpriced 50x50mm tinyass miniature that was probably sculpted before time itself... because... reasons.

Just wondering. Anyone here going to buy DE and WE units to incorporate into their armies or... just gonna let all this bs pass and slowly stop buying any WH things because speaking with our wallets is the best from of communication?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:09 am 
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Arent there also neutral armies? I would bet on that.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:20 am 
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Maxwell123 wrote:
MAJOR SPOILERS

From Darth McBob the Warseer forums:

Quote:
Ok, now having finished the book, some spoilers: ...


Can someone just hang Gav Thorpe on a hook off that space marine out front of GW to make it clear what we think of his writing?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:22 am 
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Location: Looking for a lost Asur expedition somewhere in the Old World
On Maxwells post:

Is it just me or is anyone else thinking that the state of the Elves at the end of the Khaine book is not the final one? Moving all remaining Elves to the Old World is a very big thing in my opinion and we will see much more happening there. Its all really starting to look like the means to an end and that the plots and twists will not end by this resettlement.

I am also kinda happy to see that Malekith is not redeemed. The elves just recognized that there is a bigger issue there and that they need each other. For a time perhaps... After the End Times end, we might see the alliance breaking into an uneasy coexistence or separation of elves again. Or about 10 other possible outcomes... Or the redemption will actually take more than defeating Tyrion. Which would actually redeem the whole story for me. :-)

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My personal PLOG
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Quote:
"Well, hey, I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons and not learn a little something about courage."
- X-files, ep. Jose Chung's From Outer Space, Faulkner


Last edited by aurynn on Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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