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Ulthuan, Home of the Asur
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:03 pm 
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Hey thanks for posting those pics, Curu! :brofist:

The Host of the Eternity King is the single most powerful army in the history of WHFB. Damn. Only the 7th ed. DoC comes close to THAT. The power of this list is utterly insane when you realize it... Having both of the MP rules benefit HE units a lot more than the DE ones in general. A Phoenix Guard unit with the Razor Standard and the "M&M's" prowess (lol) is just too damn good for their pts. cost! Definitely the best infantry unit ever especially with the easy 3++ you can give them. Star Dragon riding Princes not fluffing with those 1's to wound sounds p. sweet as well (happened to me too often to make me envious of the DE's MP n characters)! Even the Swordmasters who were ruined by the 8th ed HE book are buffed p. nicely with the ability to RR 1's to wound if you're up against non-elven armies. MSU units of 7-ish strong in 1 rank or MMU ones 14-ish strong in 2 ranks are looking decent again.

Then again, any of these ET:Khaine lists, especially "THOTEK" are just ridiculously imbalanced and uncomped WHFB is already terrible in terms of balance. ETC comp flat-out refuses to allow any of the ET lists even though they are p. open-minded this year and have even allowed the 50% characters Errata change in their comp pack.

P.S.

This is a really weird angle to ponder on and I can't believe THIS is what catches my attention but what happened to Tyrion's old sword the SUNFANG? Tyrion is probably going to die and I hope this item becomes available to High Elves or combined Elves or whatever as a magic weapon in the future! Hey, it's a really sweet magic weapon, a fine panacea for those nasty BoN blocks! :D


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:13 pm 
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Francis wrote:
Wow, Teclis is gone and Malekith rules the elves,,,, in my view it couldn't have been worse. It reads like the very worst form of fanboyism.

This is a fanboys nightmare I think!

I'm still up for waiting and seeing what the story is before judging. I don't however really like the combined armies thing they've got going now. I'm interested to see how this works out with competitive play as it has the potential for some stoopid combos that break the world.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:22 pm 
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John Rainbow wrote:
Francis wrote:
Wow, Teclis is gone and Malekith rules the elves,,,, in my view it couldn't have been worse. It reads like the very worst form of fanboyism.

This is a fanboys nightmare I think!

I'm still up for waiting and seeing what the story is before judging. I don't however really like the combined armies thing they've got going now. I'm interested to see how this works out with competitive play as it has the potential for some stoopid combos that break the world.


I was thinking about Gav Thorpe when I wrote that, I actually liked the Sundering series, but I think he is going way over the top at this point.

As for the army lists, my WLs and Swordmasters are going to enjoy MP :p. Just wished I could put a dragon scale cloak on my prince.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:27 pm 
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:captain obvious mode/on: Considering the fact that ET magic phases will be fueled by 4d6 Winds of Magic and that these ET spells can't be dispelled, the DEADLOCK spell of High Magic is p. damn amazing. 15+ to cast for an Archmage with BoH, start with casting that on the most powerful Wiz with the highest casting and dispelling modifiers and they'll not only lose that +4 to dispel the rest of your non-ET spells, he/she/it won't be able to cast next turn as well... It's even sweeter if your opponent also has the Dispel Scroll on his lvl4 Wizard as well because the spell also prevents its use! :captain obvious mode/off:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:39 pm 
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Lecai wrote:
:captain obvious mode/on: Considering the fact that ET magic phases will be fueled by 4d6 Winds of Magic and that these ET spells can't be dispelled, the DEADLOCK spell of High Magic is p. damn amazing. 15+ to cast for an Archmage with BoH, start with casting that on the most powerful Wiz with the highest casting and dispelling modifiers and they'll not only lose that +4 to dispel the rest of your non-ET spells, he/she/it won't be able to cast next turn as well... It's even sweeter if your opponent also has the Dispel Scroll on his lvl4 Wizard as well because the spell also prevents its use! :captain obvious mode/off:


Yes, but pay close attention to the wording they choose.

"Games set during the end times" use these spells. They aren't being added to the BRB like the allotment change was.

This is exactly the same as Storm of Magic (fitting, since they're the exact same spells), and you'll only face those spells if you CHOOSE to. I imagine tournaments will not use these spells, and in friendlies, you only play what you want, so if you don't want to play with these magic rules in place, you won't.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:47 pm 
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mcmulligan, I've already paid close attention to that and wrote that only "ET magic phases" will be getting 4d6 Winds which should've been enough to give away that I realize these ridiculous and OTT rules are limited to ET games only.

My local club only plays ETC-hammer for some time now since they're going to be attending that tournament in 2015 so I'm mostly stuck with that. I won't be getting any games with these imbalanced & ridiculous rules other than the odd beer&pretzels-hammer game with friends fo' sh*ts n' giggles...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:11 pm 
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In the UK at least, it's a totally mixed bag.

Some tournies are banning all the ET stuff, some allowing everything, most somewhere in between.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:42 pm 
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We don't lose any units so I'm happy on that front. Balance may be...interesting. But then, by the sounds of magic alone balance doesn't come into this issue so much. I'll wait and see - I was happy with 8th and didn't want any radical rule changes, but I like new fluff.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:23 pm 
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I'm fine with this actually.

I've always believed Malekith should be PK in secret. Also, his rules are amazing.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Also not bothered. T&T have been a fine duo for what they offered, but the whole army has felt incredibly static in its fluff for so long now.

Malekith as King works fine for me. He is actually a character with room to grow. Tyrion wasn't. His corner was painted a long time ago. What can a born hero do other than be a born hero? Malekith at least has an anti-hero/redemption angle he can play at.

As for people who believe that this has ruined the HEs they love....consider the alternative. The alternative is clearly that GW feels there are way to many WHFB armies as is. Combining them in this way was probably the only way to ensure the entire game survives at this point. So, you could have kept your HEs as you love them and the game system likely would be folded up. Keep playing the same army you love if you want to.

I'll be happily adding a Cauldron of Blood to my Swordmaster unit...and I'll be happily converting it into something less Khaine like and more Hoeth like. List building is incredibly hard in my mind, so many options that its hard to pick out many as instantly best. The strong ones that stood out before continue to. Some things (the Sea Dragon Cloak) remain as broken as they always were. And, some things that are amazing (Warlocks) suddenly have lots of hard counters out there (Easy access to a ton of Slaanesh stuff in the LoC) because of other combined lists.

For balance issues...well...wait until they combine Dwarves with Empire and you face 3 Great Cannons, 3 Dwarf Cannons, and 2 steam tanks. Balance will all go haywire until 9th arrives and we see what we are dealing with. For now, I say play the game you want to play.

For TOs, run the tournament you want to run. You can't please everyone, anyway. You never could. If you want to allow this, go ahead. People will just get on it with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:53 pm 
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Ptolemy wrote:
Also not bothered. T&T have been a fine duo for what they offered, but the whole army has felt incredibly static in its fluff for so long now.

Malekith as King works fine for me. He is actually a character with room to grow. Tyrion wasn't. His corner was painted a long time ago. What can a born hero do other than be a born hero? Malekith at least has an anti-hero/redemption angle he can play at.

As for people who believe that this has ruined the HEs they love....consider the alternative. The alternative is clearly that GW feels there are way to many WHFB armies as is. Combining them in this way was probably the only way to ensure the entire game survives at this point. So, you could have kept your HEs as you love them and the game system likely would be folded up. Keep playing the same army you love if you want to.


I've got no problem with Tyrion and Teclis dying. I've got no problem with merging with the Dark Elves as pairs. I've got no problems with most things. But what I always hoped, delusively it seems, is that that damn Draco in Leather Pants, karma houdini, redemption-is-cheap, Mary sue-istic Malekith never, ever got a hold of Ulthuan. Or, at the very least, that the fire of freedom would still burn in the hearts of the high elves, even if Malekith happened to win the war and conquer Ulthuan. But no, he will not only recover "what is his by birthright" (stuff it), and pretty much get every single thing to go his way, but he is going to die a damn hero because someone at GW has wet dreams with him.

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Last edited by Shadeseraph on Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:55 pm 
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I still dont get what is so unbearably wrong with Malekith being a PK. The story might be bad ir good, but I see no issue with its results.

Ofc ET is unbalanced. Its a narrative campaign. Again - I dont see any problem.

I will repeat that everything that is happening is in my opinion preparation fir 9th and cannot be even attempted to be judged before the 9th hits us.

With magic scaling back down in 9th I am hopeful.

@Ptolemy - thank you for nicely summing my thoughts. :-)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:55 pm 
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Shadeseraph wrote:
Ptolemy wrote:
Also not bothered. T&T have been a fine duo for what they offered, but the whole army has felt incredibly static in its fluff for so long now.

Malekith as King works fine for me. He is actually a character with room to grow. Tyrion wasn't. His corner was painted a long time ago. What can a born hero do other than be a born hero? Malekith at least has an anti-hero/redemption angle he can play at.

As for people who believe that this has ruined the HEs they love....consider the alternative. The alternative is clearly that GW feels there are way to many WHFB armies as is. Combining them in this way was probably the only way to ensure the entire game survives at this point. So, you could have kept your HEs as you love them and the game system likely would be folded up. Keep playing the same army you love if you want to.


I've got no problem with Tyrion and Teclis dying. I've got no problem with merging with the Dark Elves as pairs. I've got no problems with most things. But what I always hoped, delusively it seems, is that that damn Draco in Leather Pants, Mary sue-istic Malekith never, ever got a hold of Ulthuan. Or, at the very least, that the fire of freedom would still burn in the hearts of the high elves, even if Malekith happened to win the war and conquer Ulthuan. But no, he will not only recover "what is his by birthright" (stuff it), and pretty much get every single thing to go his way, but he is going to die a damn hero because someone at GW has wet dreams with him.


I think it's deeper than that. I also don't believe the one big secret is that Teclis put Tyrion's daughter up for grabs, but more about Malekith and why he was burned by the fire.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:02 pm 
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HERO wrote:
I think it's deeper than that. I also don't believe the one big secret is that Teclis put Tyrion's daughter up for grabs, but more about Malekith and why he was burned by the fire.


No, the lie is already quite well known: Ass-uryan is actually a huge dick. It's got nothing to do with Teclis and Tyrion. The "Lie" is just a big, stupid excuse to give Malekith free reign over all the elves despite the crapload of ***t he has put them during the last 6000 years,

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:09 pm 
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Yeah my Asthoi will just ignore the rest of the world from behind the protection of the mountains of Athel Ballarn.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:10 pm 
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After found that Teclis will die too I just want to cry. All my favourite characters of the High Elves killed. I hope it's not true in the end. As someone said before they killed my love to play anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:11 pm 
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Giladis wrote:
Yeah my Asthoi will just ignore the rest of the world from behind the protection of the mountains of Athel Ballarn.

Can my army join?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:24 pm 
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I'm sure we shouldn't worry too much about Malekith's temporary hold on the throne and the over powered nature of the survivors list. These are only the survivors of the civil war. I predict another huge kill fest when the chaos attack is turned back. There are already several rumours out there which describe WH9 as being played out in the ruins of all previous realms, with much smaller populations. This leads to smaller armies and more influential characters. I wonder is ANY 8th edition named characters will make it into 9th. I have always supported the theory that GW are planning a radical overhaul of Warhammer and the ET campaign is just the "last huzzah" of the old system AND races.

Just my own thoughts obviously.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:27 pm 
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Curu you're getting linked in your OP with the images all over the net.
#hobbyhero lol.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:28 pm 
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Shadeseraph wrote:
Giladis wrote:
Yeah my Asthoi will just ignore the rest of the world from behind the protection of the mountains of Athel Ballarn.

Can my army join?


Sure :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:30 pm 
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These changes makes me kinda sad.. Felt like I just painted up my Teclis and Korhil and now they bite the dust. Sigh.. Not cool.

However, in more serious matters. Doesn't anyone else find these updates a extremely underwhelming compared to the other 2 books? It's kind of like GW ran out of ideas for what to do with the elves and just decided to throw all the elves together and fight together. The dragons returning would have been nice, a new avatar stepping up would have been interesting, Tyrion and the Everqueen doing something stupid would have stood out more. But instead they just threw everything together and didn't even bother to give us new models? I'm clearly jumping to conclusions too early, but.. as it stands, Tyrion just feels super overpriced. Don't get why he's a caster now, widowmaker over sunfang is amazing, kind of questioning why he doesn't get a combined statline, but... 300Pts more to summon skeletons and hold a new sword?.... really?

Everqueen's new abilities... 200 pts more to force herohammer lists? I don't know... feels weird.

Also... splitting up the elves into 2 new war hosts is... odd. Eternity King army sounds fun.. not so much the other one.

I've been pretty upset with GW lately... I think I'm just ranting now... sorry guys.. haha

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:33 pm 
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Count Magpyr wrote:
I'm sure we shouldn't worry too much about Malekith's temporary hold on the throne and the over powered nature of the survivors list. These are only the survivors of the civil war. I predict another huge kill fest when the chaos attack is turned back. There are already several rumours out there which describe WH9 as being played out in the ruins of all previous realms, with much smaller populations. This leads to smaller armies and more influential characters. I wonder is ANY 8th edition named characters will make it into 9th. I have always supported the theory that GW are planning a radical overhaul of Warhammer and the ET campaign is just the "last huzzah" of the old system AND races.

Just my own thoughts obviously.

Someone might have mentioned this before, but I get the feeling that End-Times are Apocalypse format of WFB. The end times spells, magic phase and "big-guys" are bit like the superheavies of W40K and those huuuuge bonuses are like formation bonuses which can be pretty incredible sometimes. Its meant as narrative and fun, not comp and has a lot of OOMPH.

Assuming this as probable, it is also probable that the final version for standard games (9th) might be greatly toned down in terms of raw power and ramped up in terms of tactics.

I am not sure if they will introduce modified ruleset for small games and skirmishes, but it is possible too. Or they will modify the standard ruleset to allow 500+ pts battles.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:36 pm 
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I'm not hugely hopeful about the future of 9th. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and won't be jacking it in any time soon, I just think that with the precedent set by 40k and the rules writers taking crazy pills, army lists in particular will need some serious work from TOs to get it all to work.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Great post from Ptolemy.

The worse case scenario of last year's End Times rumours has basically came true for me. They are de-legitimising the very reason I chose to play WFB over twenty years ago (and to take it back up again four years ago) -- the Dark Elves. If the unified faction runs into 9th then they have basically killed that part of the game world.

[*]So, if they have destroyed your Asur/Asrai universe I know exactly how you feel.

...but at the time I began collecting the Witch King was a massively mutated servant of Chaos who could not move from his tower. It was only at the dawn of 4th edition that he became 'Malekith, Son of Aenarion'. That fluff evolution was considerably better than what had been before ...and with this new 2014 clearing of the slate it could potentially go on to be even better again.

I don't want to see the Dark Elves end, but if the game designers are forcing on us a combined Elven army it is because there are challenges to the financial legitimacy of Warhammer Fantasy Battle. The game world will evolve, and our own personal fluff universes are always sacrosanct, but unification is acceptable if it means that GW stays afloat so we can all continue to play the game.

/triumphalist troll mode back on

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:45 pm 
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Rainbow.. I'm with you on this one. I love the game.. but I'm questioning my loyalty with every passing day.
Or maybe I'm just upset cause I only play high elves.. hmm.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:48 pm 
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I really like the conversion opportunities here. I was already utilizing a decent amount of DE parts for my Caledor armor since they looked a little be darker without completely breaking the HE asthetic, but now I can just go balls deep with the conversions. Same for Wood Elves, I like the idea of being able to use Glade Guard as core and being able to convert them to fit in with the rest of the army.

Have we seen anything indicating if the armories of all three books are shared?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:51 pm 
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lestat_bcn wrote:
After found that Teclis will die too I just want to cry. All my favourite characters of the High Elves killed. I hope it's not true in the end. As someone said before they killed my love to play anymore.


I know your pain. I feel like my dog just died.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:00 pm 
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no way, I can't simply accept that fluff, someone really had to take something strong to produce such bullshit.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:04 pm 
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Giladis wrote:
Shadeseraph wrote:
Giladis wrote:
Yeah my Asthoi will just ignore the rest of the world from behind the protection of the mountains of Athel Ballarn.

Can my army join?


Sure :mrgreen:


It's likely to get crowded.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:09 pm 
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ArcaneSnow wrote:
Rainbow.. I'm with you on this one. I love the game.. but I'm questioning my loyalty with every passing day.
Or maybe I'm just upset cause I only play high elves.. hmm.


What is preventing you to continue playing only High Elves?

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