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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:21 pm 
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I agree with Tech less' opinion about the direction our fluff is going 1000%. I told similar things back in the days of ET vol 1 that the fluff concerning elves was flying over the cuckoo's nest, doing a huge disjustice to Tyrion's and Alarielle's characters the way that were shaped from 5th edition up to now. Their story arc headed in a way that is allien to the way these dramatis personae act or it would be the natural thing of them to act. Then not so many heeded and turned a deaf ear here in the community, because they were excited about the return of Nagash. Now that reality struck home with all the leaks concerning ET Khaine more and more people express their worries. The only thing i have to say that the boat has sailed! Either GW writers will manage to write a masterpiece in an epic scale rivaling that of Tolkien's, Moorcock's and Martin's work or they will reach an epic fail. I get down on my knees and pray that Teclis as a "master manipulator" that they made him will pull this win-win situation for all elves concerned and the fluff of all elven kindreds will not be ruined. [-o<


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:38 pm 
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Not to be too dramatic, because I'm smiling as I write this, and I know I don't post here much anymore, but this is it for me - I'm out for the time being - this is just the final straw in a pile of hay that has smothered my gentle, beautiful spirit, and I have to share it/inflict it on others. :3

This is just the shittiest plot twist. I know its only temporary, and things will return to how they were, but my irritation for Gav Thorpe finally surpassed my fanboyism for elves, with them clearly (to me at least) writing campaign packs off his writing. I can't continue playing this army with the writing this moronically bad - its bad enough I have to play against armies influenced by him with nonsensical, chaotic-evil, BDSM-loving sadomasochistic Dark Elves, but now he's got his fingers in other armies and I can't even run off to Athel Loren now. The whole feel and ethos of the HE, DE and WE factions have been ruined for me post factum* with this silliness.

I got the ad for this in my email, checked the store, came here, read the white dwarf excerpts and I feel like a friend died - I've been going through stages of acceptance all night long. I feel like I don't have a vested interest in this game world and I just don't need to be here - this shit costs too much, I can play PC games for tactical fix, and I just don't care anymore, even after 15+ years of playing High Elves.

I know it's 'just a game' and I'm nerd-raging hard right now, but painting and selling this stuff has become my main source of income, and its just truly weird to not care about one army in either game system. I'll just stick to painting space marines for kiddies now for the foreseeable future, I guess! :D

*I had to look up a word to describe being 'future f@cked'. I think Post Factum is working for me.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:03 pm 
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well said Milliardo.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:14 pm 
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http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ost7320513

Quote:
Got the preview copy, a few things it reveals:

[SPOILER]
Imrok & Caledor join up with Malekith, due to Teclis telling him something, and then Caledor Dragontamer confirming this.
Darkblade gets a mention, seems he loses control of his demon again.
Teclis is indeed out to unmake the Vortex, using its power to make 8 Mortals the equal of the Chaos gods, Malekith was supposed to be given the power of fire (to sort of make him a symbol of light and hope), but someone interfered and he ended up with Shadow instead. (Its probably safe to assume the everqueen has been given power of life)
The flames of Asuryan are supposed to burn people, if Malekith had been able to take the pain for a few seconds longer, he'd have been Phoenix King, his exile to Naggaroth is a further test by asuryan. Asuryan has been sending dreams to all the Phoenix Kings after Bel Shannar, fanning their pride or paranoia, until it eventually drives them insane.
"If the Witch King could prove himself worthy, the creator decided, the Phoenix throne would be his, until that day, no other dynasty would be permitted to establish itself"
Malekith is Crowned Eternity King in Athel Loren.
He's still as ruthless as ever, but he realise that if the elves are to survive, they have to fight as one again.
[/SPOILER]


Well. Damn, ****.

I'm outta here.

My army has officially declared Asuryan a Chaos god, as far as they are concerned. You don't go pushing psychotic murderous villiains on me and make me agree because "you see, I'm your god".

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:34 pm 
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Shadeseraph wrote:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?402492-End-Times-Khaine&p=7320513&viewfull=1#post7320513

Quote:
Got the preview copy, a few things it reveals:

[SPOILER]
Imrok & Caledor join up with Malekith, due to Teclis telling him something, and then Caledor Dragontamer confirming this.
Darkblade gets a mention, seems he loses control of his demon again.
Teclis is indeed out to unmake the Vortex, using its power to make 8 Mortals the equal of the Chaos gods, Malekith was supposed to be given the power of fire (to sort of make him a symbol of light and hope), but someone interfered and he ended up with Shadow instead. (Its probably safe to assume the everqueen has been given power of life)
The flames of Asuryan are supposed to burn people, if Malekith had been able to take the pain for a few seconds longer, he'd have been Phoenix King, his exile to Naggaroth is a further test by asuryan. Asuryan has been sending dreams to all the Phoenix Kings after Bel Shannar, fanning their pride or paranoia, until it eventually drives them insane.
"If the Witch King could prove himself worthy, the creator decided, the Phoenix throne would be his, until that day, no other dynasty would be permitted to establish itself"
Malekith is Crowned Eternity King in Athel Loren.
He's still as ruthless as ever, but he realise that if the elves are to survive, they have to fight as one again.
[/SPOILER]


Well. Damn, ****.

I'm outta here.

My army has officially declared Asuryan a Chaos god, as far as they are concerned. You don't go pushing psychotic murderous villiains on me and make me agree because "you see, I'm your god".


I'm with ya. My army is going to do a Nolder, so let none come in my way!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:48 pm 
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Ugh. Maybe the time has finally come to sell off ALL the elves.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:49 pm 
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Now that I think about it, Asuryan's burning of Hoeth's library makes much more sense. He was a son of a ***** from the start.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:54 pm 
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Diinekis wrote:
I agree with Tech less' opinion about the direction our fluff is going 1000%. I told similar things back in the days of ET vol 1 that the fluff concerning elves was flying over the cuckoo's nest, doing a huge disjustice to Tyrion's and Alarielle's characters the way that were shaped from 5th edition up to now. Their story arc headed in a way that is allien to the way these dramatis personae act or it would be the natural thing of them to act. Then not so many heeded and turned a deaf ear here in the community, because they were excited about the return of Nagash. Now that reality struck home with all the leaks concerning ET Khaine more and more people express their worries. The only thing i have to say that the boat has sailed! Either GW writers will manage to write a masterpiece in an epic scale rivaling that of Tolkien's, Moorcock's and Martin's work or they will reach an epic fail. I get down on my knees and pray that Teclis as a "master manipulator" that they made him will pull this win-win situation for all elves concerned and the fluff of all elven kindreds will not be ruined. [-o<


Ha. It had already sailed by the time any of us saw end times 1.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:04 pm 
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Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who, shall we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34RlJ0L0xE

This is all indeed quite unexpected but I'm waiting till I read the entire story before judging. Worst case scenario we get to play a outlaw force, loyal to the "rightful phoenix king" (so kind of like the erstwhile dark elves). My elves are colonists separate from all the politics over at Ulthuan, so there's not real change there.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:04 pm 
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So the big lie was that Asuryan was a good god. Khaine is looking better and better, and GW seems more and more likely to make the fluff completely FUBAR.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Asuryan never struck me as a good god in the first place to be honest. I'd have to pull out my old books, but apart from being the creator god and thus, in our minds, inherently good, he's always appeared flawed and biased. This makes more sense than anything else, come to think of it, granted that you do want to move down this route that is.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:10 pm 
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http://forum.oldhammer.org.uk/index.php.

I really did like 2nd and 3rd ed....


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:20 pm 
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Hey, gods were supposed to die in this installment. With some luck, we see the ****ard die.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:57 pm 
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I too share the discontent and concern that a lot of forum members are sharing. What I don't get about the "Big Lie About the Flames" is this:

So Malekith was supposed to be the Pheonix king ... okay, fine. We will gloss over the false accusation of Bel Shennar and the murder of the nobility of Ulthuan. Perhaps the point is that he was always the true king according to Asuryan and Bel Shennar was never "truly" the Phoenix King ... fine. The flames are supposed to burn people and if Malekith had been able to endure the flames he would have been king ... fine. Here is were they loose me though, he did not endure the flames. He chickened out and therefore proved himself unworthy. If anything this new interpretation of the flames further confirms the pre-existing fluff that he is unworthy and not the true king, not somehow magically reversing it and preserving his claim to the throne.

I have to remind myself that we all do have a choice to this. We can choose to play whatever edition we want (for friendly games), and for competition can enjoy new rule sets for the tactical challenge. We can choose to have our armies live in whatever edition or self invented fluff we want. I don't say this to diminish the feeling of the other contributors here, as I too feel like old friends are dying (some of these plot twist seem to fly in the face of these characters as I know them), but to at least offer some consolation.

Finally as awesome as Tyrion drawing the sword is, he had already went to the shrine, looked at the sword, and turned away.

Thank you to all the contributors on this forum. Your blogs, battle reports, and discussions are thoroughly enjoyed by someone who woefully does not have the time to enjoy this hobby as much as he would like.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:59 pm 
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Quote:
Imrok & Caledor join up with Malekith, due to Teclis telling him something, and then Caledor Dragontamer confirming this.
Darkblade gets a mention, seems he loses control of his demon again.
Teclis is indeed out to unmake the Vortex, using its power to make 8 Mortals the equal of the Chaos gods, Malekith was supposed to be given the power of fire (to sort of make him a symbol of light and hope), but someone interfered and he ended up with Shadow instead. (Its probably safe to assume the everqueen has been given power of life)
The flames of Asuryan are supposed to burn people, if Malekith had been able to take the pain for a few seconds longer, he'd have been Phoenix King, his exile to Naggaroth is a further test by asuryan. Asuryan has been sending dreams to all the Phoenix Kings after Bel Shannar, fanning their pride or paranoia, until it eventually drives them insane.
"If the Witch King could prove himself worthy, the creator decided, the Phoenix throne would be his, until that day, no other dynasty would be permitted to establish itself"
Malekith is Crowned Eternity King in Athel Loren.
He's still as ruthless as ever, but he realise that if the elves are to survive, they have to fight as one again.

Geronitan dying to Mortarion because he chose not to wear a helmet to fight the embodiment of toxicity and Draigo writing his name in the primarch's heart sounds so well written suddenly.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:10 pm 
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Quote:
Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who, shall we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34RlJ0L0xE

This is all indeed quite unexpected but I'm waiting till I read the entire story before judging. Worst case scenario we get to play a outlaw force, loyal to the "rightful phoenix king" (so kind of like the erstwhile dark elves). My elves are colonists separate from all the politics over at Ulthuan, so there's not real change there.


There is a more fitting song if we want to be optimistic RE.Lee and is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo
but i am more in the "nothing is forgotten, nothing is forgiven" mood. I will wait for the book to arrive to pass final judgement but...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:14 pm 
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I think a lot of you are just discounting one thing - WFB needed a restart. I think a great majority of us will agree on this. Joining armylists into one big one is a good move in my opinion in preparation for 9th. Much better than allies system. So we needed to bring DE, E and WE together somehow. Therefore I am more than willing to forgive some things that seem far-fetched to achieve that goal. Noone will force anyone to include DE or WE in their armies. And lastly - HE as a whole never were "good", so I really do not understand waving this word around like a cross against DE.

So what I really want to say is, I am sticking with HE through the bad times and I am still more hopeful for the future of WFB than I ever was. :-)

Also interesting is that I have not seen such a strong nerdrage on Druchii and Asrai forums. I wonder... :-)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Not to be insulting but i believe you confuse restart with del *.* (a.k.a. format)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:29 pm 
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aurynn wrote:
I think a lot of you are just discounting one thing - WFB needed a restart. I think a great majority of us will agree on this. Joining armylists into one big one is a good move in my opinion in preparation for 9th. Much better than allies system. So we needed to bring DE, E and WE together somehow. Therefore I am more than willing to forgive some things that seem far-fetched to achieve that goal. Noone will force anyone to include DE or WE in their armies. And lastly - HE as a whole never were "good", so I really do not understand waving this word around like a cross against DE.

So what I really want to say is, I am sticking with HE through the bad times and I am still more hopeful for the future of WFB than I ever was. :-)

Also interesting is that I have not seen such a strong nerdrage on Druchii and Asrai forums. I wonder... :-)


Yeah but there's a way to do it right, and then there is this pile or crap that makes me want scream. Its great for the DE but for those loyal it is a stab in the back.

one massive reason, the everqueen is married to and will conceive the child of the phoenix king/eternity king which is now malikith....... really, really, would she really be willing to loos Tyrion for him.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:33 pm 
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aurynn wrote:
Also interesting is that I have not seen such a strong nerdrage on Druchii and Asrai forums. I wonder... :-)


Ok, I'll try to make it short:

I hate Malekith. As a character, as a background piece, as almost everything. Even more so, because every **** dark elf player seems to derive pleasure on boasting how cool and badass he is and how everyone (especially high elves) should bow to him.

So yeah, nerdrage at its purest.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:35 pm 
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Aurynn, I definitly agree HE are not "good" necessarily. One of my favorite fluff transitions over the years has been for HE to be less paragons of virtue but flawed arrogant and prideful heroes. But still heroes. I liked when dark elves transitioned from being slaaneshi elves to a proud race embittered with deep rooted hate, and when they added a lot of "gray" to wood elves. I would argue however that what WHFB needed more than a restart was timely updated rules and army books supported by frequent FAQs and Erratas.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Tyrion is now the good guy. GW wants me to believe he is the bad guy, but no. He's the good guy. And I'm praying he wins this war, because otherwise. Well. Let's just say my Lizardmen will receive some much needed attention. I see the possibility of this all ending in a way that I am happy with the End Times being about a 2% chance. 3% says I'm okay with it, and 95% says the End Times are dead to me.

I don't necessarily see the High Elves as good. I see them as arrogant to a fault, over-confident, uncaring for any race other than their own, and in a lot of ways, d**ks. However, they are noble, brave, honorable, and willing to sacrifice themselves to save the world. That's why I like their army. Malekith is arrogant to fault, over-confident despite 6000 years of dismal failure, uncaring for any race including their own, a total d**k, not noble, not brave, not honorable, and not willing to sacrifice himself to save the world. He takes everything bad about the High Elves, magnifies it, and then has the opposite of everything good about the High Elves. The idea that they would follow him. It just destroys my image of the High Elves and makes them an army I don't really want to play or collect.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:18 pm 
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Just want to point out that while Malekith may indeed be crowned eternity king etc. we don't know how the book ends. We don't know the third army list. We do know that Alith Anar has a big say in the matter, and he ain't the biggest fan of the Druchii. Remember the book is called End Times Khaine, not End Times Malekith...

Can't see gw just giving the dark elves this massive win, even if the writer does have a hard on for Malekith.

Also I think I join many in saying that my elves will never bend the knee to that traitorous bastard, Ulthuan shall never fall.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:34 pm 
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Loremaster Cephas wrote:
One of my favorite fluff transitions over the years has been for HE to be less paragons of virtue but flawed arrogant and prideful heroes. But still heroes.


Exactly... the time has come to swallow our pride or perish... And if Malekith is man enough to do it, I say let him be king! :-)

As for WFB restart - that amount of care is not supported by sales and given the WFB system is much tougher to get into than W40K, no amount of care you speak of would increase the sales as the system itself is flawed in oh-so-many ways. The entry is more difficult than in 40K and it lacks the "oomph" of Horus Heresy. Sales is what will bring the care. Noone can blame GW for placing profit first and therefore I understand that at one point, the people at GW sat down and said "so we either do a major overhaul or let WFB die". They reduced the number of armies that will need to be updated, which is great in my opinion to keep the WFB running and I am willing to give them a very wide berth in terms of fluff for that.

Pure speculation ofc, but my guess is that the system as such will get major changes in 9th, such as possibility of lowering the formats and increasing the tactical challenge beyond shuffling for first two turns, charging and rolling dice by introducing objectives and going one step further than rectangular rank-and-file units. It would actually be a win-win scenario. The 8th edition will still be here for whoever wants to stick with the old rules and timeline and 9th will introduce a largely different game and world.

My point is, before we know where end of the road is, its neither fair nor wise to shout "you screwed, GW, I am outta here", just because I dont like that my favourite hero is suddenly a bad guy or because I cant imagine fighting along DE.

CaledorRises wrote:
Tyrion is now the good guy. GW wants me to believe he is the bad guy, but no.

I sooo much disagree with this... He is brave, thats about it.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:36 pm 
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So, after the shock I experienced yesterday by missing those precious ten minutes to pre-order the book, I got back up today to continue my fight. After calling almost every store in the country that could possibly have a non-taken copy of the book ordered from Games Workshop I finally managed to find one that I will almost certainly get for myself next weekend. A huge relief for me, yet still I had no chance to get the Limited Edition for myself. Nevertheless the situation is now much better than it was yeaterday at this time.

Now I'll have to retreat to a complete internet silence for a whole week to stay safe from all the spoilers whirling online right now. I don't want to spoil the enjoyment of reading the book once I get it. The 43rd issue of White Dwarf and everything I have red here and elsewhere have taken my expectations to a whole new level! See you later and enjoy the book everyone, when you get it!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Ielthan wrote:
Just want to point out that while Malekith may indeed be crowned eternity king etc. we don't know how the book ends. We don't know the third army list. We do know that Alith Anar has a big say in the matter, and he ain't the biggest fan of the Druchii. Remember the book is called End Times Khaine, not End Times Malekith...


Yeah, but in End Times Glottkin the Glottkin lost, so the name doesn't tell us anything. The problem is, Alith Anar takes a shot that is supposedly a really difficult decision and is really important. Him shooting Malekith wouldn't be a hard decision, so I see Malekith winning this. I hope you're right and maybe he ends up killing Malekith because he realizes it would be terrible for the Elves to live under him, or maybe he goes with his heart instead of his head and kills Malekith, but I think the hard decision will be letting his hated enemy live so that the Elves are not destroyed by the Widowmaker.

It wouldn't be a massive win. Morathi and the Khaine side of the Dark Elves would be destroyed if Malekith won.

Ielthan wrote:
Also I think I join many in saying that my elves will never bend the knee to that traitorous bastard, Ulthuan shall never fall.


This. A thousand times this.


Tyrion is the good guy because he is standing up for what is right. Malekith is wrong, and he is bad. He would destroy the High Elves and everything that makes them High Elves. Also, there is no way Teclis's plan can work. I don't care what he thinks, if the Vortex is broken, Chaos wins. Even the First Generation Slann, the most OP magic users ever, even the entire generation of Slann was obliterated by the Chaos Gods. Teclis cannot win the fight with magic, the Chaos Gods are magic. Tyrion is trying to stop this plan, and kill the person that has caused the deaths of millions. Teclis has lost his mind, and Tyrion is doing whatever it takes to save the High Elves and stop the madness. In my book that makes him a good guy. Of course, he needs to die at the end of it so that he doesn't himself destroy the High Elves, but that perfectly sets up Imrik to take the lead.........After he realizes how stupid he was being by supporting Malekith of course......


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Quote:
Also interesting is that I have not seen such a strong nerdrage on Druchii and Asrai forums. I wonder... :-)


Well sure. Suddenly they were the only good guys the entire time. Nor does their character suddenly change personality or do anything inconsistent. What is there to be upset about?

I get that they want to do change things, and to do that they have to break some things. It just would have been nice if they'd done it without ruining some of there better back stories as a way to justify the current stuff being so inconsistent with the stuff over the last 20ish years.

You can kill off Tyrion and Malakith and frankly even the line of Phionex kings without having to turn everything about the previous stories into nonsense.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:06 pm 
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Elves have always been shades of grey and are usually playing a long game.
also gods are fickle by their nature and it maybe possible that what has been the longest game yet known.

But drawing the Sword of Khaine, even Malekith never did that as he grew up playing below that sword no matter how desperate he got he would never draw the sword.
Tyrion was tempted by the sword as an old piece of fluff stated.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:19 am
Posts: 25
Lol,
I thought the blind ninja elf that tickled Malekith's flesh with his white sword ( in the white dwarf) marked the epoch of the elves worst fluff. I stand corrected

[quote ="mireadur"]
The whole story is ridiculous, and its got "gav thorpe" written all over it.

Best quality background destroyed in a stroke.
[/quote]

Yep, and then some.
Clubbed the background like a druchii would club a young high elf babe dragged from hiding in a shattered hearth - of course this analogy ( using the new stuff) would now mean that the druchii is actually a high elf who backed the right horse and the high elf child and his parents are the dark elves and even after their years of worship of asuryan their God chooses to undermine and spurn their worship as ignorant lackies and support their killer and his boss.

I mean I was hoping for the best , worried and expecting some dissatisfaction but wow! High five GW -
Malekiths new banner can carry his and the dark elves new motto " multiple failure and cowardice gets you the corner office, yea haaaaah!"

So after reading the samples .....

Seriously? The guy who has singularly done more to harm/ kill more elves and damage/reduce the races ability to fight chaos is the chosen of Asuryan and better yet Asuryan's chosen because Asuryan thought he is the best bet to save / minimize elf loss of life against chaos ,wtf? - epic contradiction. For some examples of his large contribution to the fight against chaos see :
drowning / presiding over the forces that drown half of ulthuan ,starting the damaging war with the dwarfs that led to the withdrawal of elves from the new world and weakening the dwarfs and elves so that chaos and the daemons would have a free reign instead of being thwarted by a combined elf and dwarf empire at the heights of their military prowess ,consorting with greater daemons and lastly allowing the cult of slannesh to flourish amongst elves by extending them succor in his dark society. Way to fight chaos malky!
and even after all this we are expected to believe he is still credible as the chosen and worthy guy , crap.

Now try and explain to me how a guy who fails to stay in the flame and bails can still possibly be seen as worthy by a deity ( who determined aenarions worthiness precisely because he stayed in the flames enduring agony unto death). If it was written that he was intended as asuryans choice back then i might be persuaded to come round to the idea ( even though there are still massive issues with this as being a none starter - see below about the consequences of aenarion and the drawing of the sword)
He however bails out of the flames on his own choice which flies smack bang in the face of the fluff of the flames and how they work as the whole worthy angle is about self sacrifice of oneself to the flames and hence why a guy who bails is as undeserving as the guys who apparently are undeserving ( now) because of enchantments - more nonsensical contridictions due to the new stuff.
Worse still and arguably the worst plot stuff up of the new rubbish ,
how the hell given aenarion cursed his whole line because of drawing the widowmaker ( and his line being cursed and damned because he [ not his unborn/ born lineage] turned away from asuryan and towards khaine by drawing the blade ) does it become possible that malekith could realistically be a candidate to save the race ,better yet as the preferred candidate of the god asuryan and a pure good guy? malekith was already tainted because of the curse even before arriving at the council ,before his first dark deed even.It makes jack all sense to have him as the pure chosen guy. And washing away 6000years of evil as a test is a trite literary gimmick deserving of scorn as the ill thought writing it is.
Asuryan's great champion is also suffering from bouts of amnesia, how then is he a competent and genius leader?

Continued..


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:19 am
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Continued...

I am racking my head to find one character where they have not trashed their existing fluff - maybe morathi ( she appears to at least still be deviously plotting).

How are you guys as high elf players and fans of the background coming to terms with the following?

- entire race and principles are now reduced to a bunch of ignorant betrayers and are the defacto 'bad' faction. Even caledorians now chop up their kin, you know because their misguided kin don't know the truth and it's better to attack and kill them @ the eagle gate Instead of trying dialogue first.

-all the Phoenix kings and their deeds and their great backdrops reduced to the acts ( and worse not even acts of free will) of imposters , better still imposters whose God they worship leads them to their failures because he has a lovefest for a guy who ironically manages his failures on his own ( as well as being as evil as hell and setting up a society dedicated to khaine and the dark gods) - brilliant writing! Though the plus side : maybe now we can view the clown who actually lost the Phoenix crown ,as losing it because it asuryan wanted him to , you know ,to put it in safe keeping with the dwarfs till his fav could collect it.
Looking forward to that writing of the rapprochement :
malekith and the dwarf king fist bump and malekith says " sorry for the misunderstanding and the destruction of your people over the years , I was robbed but let's be friends again ", dwarf kings says " I completely understand. Aye! Allies again"
Because this makes about as much sense as Malekith as phoenix king.for.eternity.

-Phoenix guard and high priests of asuryan kept quiet at the council of princes and coronation ( some will say that's their thing , sure and they could not maybe make their displeasure known with a non verbal que like thumbs down or a shake of a head?) because its far better to suffer 6000 yrs of setback and loss of elven anti daemon fighting strength even when you know your God wants the other guy (oh yeah those 6000 years of slaughter , just a test ). It makes no sense , poor writing.

- alith anar and the aesenar fluff also tossed , yes they were loyal to the crown and yes Malekith killed and maimed their families and yes their whole story centered on them being true to aenarions nagarythe ideals but they were wrong so yup ignorant dupes ,not hard fighters but actual genuine traitors. Can't wait for them to embrace malekith with the knowledge they were wrong, swear fealty and shoot Tyrion in the face...alith redeems himself to the lord who slew his family and people.awesome.

- teclis is a cold frigid character who as a master manipulator is not really that good at it because his plan with malekith failed. Asuryan must love him though - failures are so in right now with this deity!

-finubar can figure out he is being messed with by Asuryan but the Phoenix king that was a Mage couldn't ? Finubar kills himself ( my guess on Tyrion doing the deed appears to be wrong - sadly that means even poor Tyrion loses at least a plot device to explain his fall other than the daughter angle)
I presume that he left a note for teclis? Why not announce to the people the truth , nah better to commit suicide and let others deal with it it seems. So he joins the idiot brigade of high elves too now?

- Tyrion , a character who if you actually read the fluff and bill kings author notes is more like a sociopath with a few psychopath traits ( and finds himself having to don a mask in a society he finds stifling )is actually a complex character because his heroics and achievements are done against his own inner character. He is a great hero not necessarily because of his deeds and his appearance which appear purer than pure but because he turns away from the sword knowing what it will do to the remaining elves ( all elves ) should he draw it and in turning from the sword conquers his own dark nature. A feat even the mighty aenarion himself could not manage. Now all that heroism and skill is chucked out because if Malekith is the good guy we need a bad guy so let's trash the high elves greatest hero and make Tyrion the bad guy as well as doing it by taking the thing that makes him great and in some ways more noble than aenarion ( and Malekith himself who long ago gives in to his base nature and then chickens out of the flames and sets up a nation dedicated solely to his own selfish and dark nature).
Frankly Tyrion makes more sense as phoenix king , hell some of the current high elves don't think him and his lineage is a great idea as a whispered king which is like sealing the deal under the new stuff as Asuryan's favorite: aenarions blood (check) aenarions curse (check) princes are concerned with warlike and possible dark nature ( check)
And we know that he draws the widowmaker and presumably kills plenty of daemons and elves( nailed it).
Honestly i could see him falling to the widowmaker, but as the hero like aenarion not some chump change bad guy.

Was it really necessary as it appears so far based on the spoilers to trash the whole high and dark elves background to have malekith be the good guy turned bad but really still a good guy who becomes the bad guy (shadow) ie still stays the same ( but fulfilling some sort of fanboy wish listing to have him as Phoenix king, and stuff the fluff in doing so) , why?!


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