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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:20 pm 
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Domine Nox wrote:
Well High Elves magic just went to silly degrees. So Loremaster of Hoeth now knows every single BRB spell. Teclis also knows every brb spell, plus end times spells. And the Everqueen knows every spell from Life, Light and High. Does anyone else have spell selections like this?


Lvl4 + High magic + book of hoeth + 4D6 magic dice = 14 castings of Soul Quench at +5. Who said S4 wasn't enough?

Slanns can also get a non-SC that knows every single battle lore spell and all the Battle lores End Times spells. Or get a High Magic Loremaster.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:21 pm 
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Nagash knows all the spells from Undeath, Death, Light, Vampires, and Nehekhara..................this guy is insane.

Loremaster of Hoeth is less scary because he only as a +2 to cast.

Teclis is just horrific.

Slann with the 8 sigs suddenly became ridiculous.

Mannfred, Arkhan, and Neferata are also massively boosted.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:48 pm 
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I don't see how only being +2 is less scary when he knows every single spell. Spamable Fireball, Shem's, and Searing Doom?

And Nagash is not that scary unless he gets an FAQ. Because even if he does get to take all those spells. (His Magic Item does state he only gets 9), he loses all of his spells if his book is blown up (as that seems to be the common consensus on the 9 books). So While he knows a lot of spells, 1 cast of Arcane Unforging and he's just a monster. Loremaster at 1/4 the cost knows all of his until he dies.

And with random allocation of dice, plus no loss of concentration, I see no weakness in the Loremaster of Hoeth.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:57 pm 
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For extra hilarity bring 4 loremasters to a 2000 pts :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:32 pm 
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Hi there my fellow Elf Allies (and DE for that matter). As I go through the full 35 pages I just wanted to post my opinión as an empire player on what might seem the main focus of this threat.
I know your feelings when you talk about loosing your main characters, the Empire just lost nearly all of the heroes as we know them:
Volkmar The Grimm (Dead)
Kurt helborg (Dead)
Schwarzhelm, Luthor Huss, plus Valten Lost in Action
Karl Franz (Dead and Rebor, most likely will die at the end of it all)
Balthasar Gelt (Now virtually Necromancer)

Almost half or more than half of the Empire is in ruin and our main characters are lost or dead with the exception of KF, it is a fact that the next Empire RB will contain new Heroes or the ones that survive filling the role of the old ones. The main issue here (personal opinión) is that for you Elf players is hard to accept what is happening to your race because elves do not Age and your Heroes have been alive for a lot of years (4000+). On the other hand from what I read Malekith becoming the Phoenix King will be hard to accept from a fan point of view (only comparable as having Archaon leading the Empire) but it is in fact revealed that Malekith is and always was meant to be the Phoenix King, and that if he had stood in the flames for just a second longer he would have ascended (Probably because it is true that someone betrayed him).
Is the fact that he is the rightfull heir of the throne so hard to accept? I mean, you HE folk where wrong all the time, probably you have a hard time trying to accept you where wrong all this time (you are proud and arrogant as you only can be) and that the DE where in fact right. You just where slap in the face with the fact that he the PK and he just fought for what it was his all the time (his mothers playing a huge part in all the wrong he has done to HE). So if he finally finds that his mother was just playing him and try to reddem himself is that so hard for you guys to understand? (I can Imply he never was in full control of what he did??) for me it makes perfect sense. All elfs will follow if they where to swallow thei pride.
As for loosing main characters it is fine, is just the evolution of the game, simple as that. Do not get to attached to things. I have been playing since 3 edition and use my old minis as new models (Old Kislev Cavalry as normal cavarly, foot Reiskguard as swordsman, Ice Queen as a Mounted Mage, halfling hot pod as mortar) probably will do so with the dead characters/units.
(Sorry for the long post)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:51 pm 
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I disagree on Nagash. He is a Level 5 wizard, and can know spells from those lores. If he chooses to know one spell from each lore, he knows them all regardless of the special rules for the book. I cannot believe that GW would come out with a super-caster like Nagash without intending him to be able to use that power. They knew these rules were coming out when they made Nagash, they just had to put the books in there so that he was powerful before Khaine. The new page says that these rules overwrite whatever method of spell selection there was before.


A Level 2 is harder to cast with, easier to dispel. That's why he's not all that great. And if your first Searing Doom or Fireball is dispelled, that's it. You don't get another, because the first was not successfully cast.


That being said, imagine Plague of Rust cast 6 times in one turn onto those fancy 1+ armor save guys. Suddenly there's no armor save.


More importantly though, that High Magic End Times spell is sooo good! It is just ridiculous. Enemy brings Nagash, Slann, any of the High Elf super-dudes, and 1 20+ cast will stop them from casting or dispelling or channeling for a whole turn. That's insane! Throw 5 dice at that as your first spell on a Level 4, and you should cast it. Then, have a field day with the remaining average of 9 dice to cast whatever you want. In their next turn they cannot do anything back at you! This would ruin VC and TK in a lot of situations, and could effectively take out an enemy spellcaster for the entire game if you do it every turn.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:03 pm 
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CaledorRises wrote:
More importantly though, that High Magic End Times spell is sooo good! It is just ridiculous. Enemy brings Nagash, Slann, any of the High Elf super-dudes, and 1 20+ cast will stop them from casting or dispelling or channeling for a whole turn. That's insane! Throw 5 dice at that as your first spell on a Level 4, and you should cast it. Then, have a field day with the remaining average of 9 dice to cast whatever you want. In their next turn they cannot do anything back at you! This would ruin VC and TK in a lot of situations, and could effectively take out an enemy spellcaster for the entire game if you do it every turn.


Ahem:

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After picking a wizard and declaring which spell you want them to cast, you must roll a D6. THe result of the roll is the maximum number of dice you can use to cast that spell (the minimum number of dice you must use is always one). You must also roll a D6 to see how many dice a Wizard can use to dispel a spell.


It's going to be a bit more difficult than that.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:14 pm 
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EmpireUser wrote:
Hi there my fellow Elf Allies (and DE for that matter). As I go through the full 35 pages I just wanted to post my opinión as an empire player on what might seem the main focus of this threat.
I know your feelings when you talk about loosing your main characters, the Empire just lost nearly all of the heroes as we know them:
Volkmar The Grimm (Dead)
Kurt helborg (Dead)
Schwarzhelm, Luthor Huss, plus Valten Lost in Action
Karl Franz (Dead and Rebor, most likely will die at the end of it all)
Balthasar Gelt (Now virtually Necromancer)

Almost half or more than half of the Empire is in ruin and our main characters are lost or dead with the exception of KF, it is a fact that the next Empire RB will contain new Heroes or the ones that survive filling the role of the old ones. The main issue here (personal opinión) is that for you Elf players is hard to accept what is happening to your race because elves do not Age and your Heroes have been alive for a lot of years (4000+). On the other hand from what I read Malekith becoming the Phoenix King will be hard to accept from a fan point of view (only comparable as having Archaon leading the Empire) but it is in fact revealed that Malekith is and always was meant to be the Phoenix King, and that if he had stood in the flames for just a second longer he would have ascended (Probably because it is true that someone betrayed him).
Is the fact that he is the rightfull heir of the throne so hard to accept? I mean, you HE folk where wrong all the time, probably you have a hard time trying to accept you where wrong all this time (you are proud and arrogant as you only can be) and that the DE where in fact right. You just where slap in the face with the fact that he the PK and he just fought for what it was his all the time (his mothers playing a huge part in all the wrong he has done to HE). So if he finally finds that his mother was just playing him and try to reddem himself is that so hard for you guys to understand? (I can Imply he never was in full control of what he did??) for me it makes perfect sense. All elfs will follow if they where to swallow thei pride.
As for loosing main characters it is fine, is just the evolution of the game, simple as that. Do not get to attached to things. I have been playing since 3 edition and use my old minis as new models (Old Kislev Cavalry as normal cavarly, foot Reiskguard as swordsman, Ice Queen as a Mounted Mage, halfling hot pod as mortar) probably will do so with the dead characters/units.
(Sorry for the long post)


Firstly, Schwarzhelm, Valten, and Huss are not MIA. In Nagash all three survive the Battle of Heffengen and in Glottkin, Helborg leaves Schwarzhelm in command of the armies defending the Auric Bastion. They are all still alive and well.

Secondly, the problem is not something that any other race or nation has experienced. It is a complete and total rewrite of all of the important fluff points from after Aenarion, which is pretty much everything. I personally would rather have suffered the Tomb Kings fate where the whole army is wiped out and left pretty much with nothing, than have everything that I know about High Elves, everything that I have planned out for my army, and everything that is written into my back story invalidated. Yeah, the Empire lost a lot of guys. I'm fine with Tyrion, and Korhil dying. In fact, that's pretty much all that died. I would have liked more. Alarielle, Teclis, Alith Anar, Caradryan, they all made it. Doesn't feel that "End Times" to me considering we kept 66% of our main characters. And yeah, the Empire is devastated by war. Ulthuan sank. There is no Ulthuan. The Empire is far better off in most ways than the High Elves after this result.


Shadeseraph wrote:
CaledorRises wrote:
More importantly though, that High Magic End Times spell is sooo good! It is just ridiculous. Enemy brings Nagash, Slann, any of the High Elf super-dudes, and 1 20+ cast will stop them from casting or dispelling or channeling for a whole turn. That's insane! Throw 5 dice at that as your first spell on a Level 4, and you should cast it. Then, have a field day with the remaining average of 9 dice to cast whatever you want. In their next turn they cannot do anything back at you! This would ruin VC and TK in a lot of situations, and could effectively take out an enemy spellcaster for the entire game if you do it every turn.


Ahem:

Quote:
After picking a wizard and declaring which spell you want them to cast, you must roll a D6. THe result of the roll is the maximum number of dice you can use to cast that spell (the minimum number of dice you must use is always one). You must also roll a D6 to see how many dice a Wizard can use to dispel a spell.


It's going to be a bit more difficult than that.


Well, okay. But with Book of Hoeth or a Loremaster it gets a lot easier. You could do it at least 50% of the time with those abilities. However, I was wrong. It will be harder than I thought. Still really good though!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Now, EmpireUser, I'll tackle your post bit by bit.

EmpireUser wrote:
Hi there my fellow Elf Allies (and DE for that matter). As I go through the full 35 pages I just wanted to post my opinión as an empire player on what might seem the main focus of this threat.
I know your feelings when you talk about loosing your main characters, the Empire just lost nearly all of the heroes as we know them:
Volkmar The Grimm (Dead)
Kurt helborg (Dead)
Schwarzhelm, Luthor Huss, plus Valten Lost in Action
Karl Franz (Dead and Rebor, most likely will die at the end of it all)
Balthasar Gelt (Now virtually Necromancer)

Almost half or more than half of the Empire is in ruin and our main characters are lost or dead with the exception of KF, it is a fact that the next Empire RB will contain new Heroes or the ones that survive filling the role of the old ones. The main issue here (personal opinión) is that for you Elf players is hard to accept what is happening to your race because elves do not Age and your Heroes have been alive for a lot of years (4000+).


I can't talk for the others, but I can say I'm not bothered about this. When tET started, I assumed that about every single SC was going to die. I actually wanted some of the newer characters (such as Eldyra) to live, rather than the old ones.

EmpireUser wrote:
On the other hand from what I read Malekith becoming the Phoenix King will be hard to accept from a fan point of view (only comparable as having Archaon leading the Empire) but it is in fact revealed that Malekith is and always was meant to be the Phoenix King, and that if he had stood in the flames for just a second longer he would have ascended (Probably because it is true that someone betrayed him).
Is the fact that he is the rightfull heir of the throne so hard to accept? I mean, you HE folk where wrong all the time, probably you have a hard time trying to accept you where wrong all this time (you are proud and arrogant as you only can be) and that the DE where in fact right.


So. Some God points you to a guy who has been murdering your family and friends for over 6000 years and says "he is your boss". Furthermore, he (the God) has shown that he is a dick, untrustworthy and has actually sabotaged your country because no one would rule it until Malekith had passed "his test". You go and accept him, right? Maybe it's because I'm an atheist IRL, but I can't avoid but feel that a god like that doesn't deserve worship, and being chosen by him would just be a negative.

EmpireUser wrote:
You just where slap in the face with the fact that he the PK and he just fought for what it was his all the time (his mothers playing a huge part in all the wrong he has done to HE). So if he finally finds that his mother was just playing him and try to reddem himself is that so hard for you guys to understand? (I can Imply he never was in full control of what he did??) for me it makes perfect sense. All elfs will follow if they where to swallow thei pride.


This is another sore point for me. Redemption grants you the right to be forgiven. It doesn't give you the right to rule anyone. And, on top of that, Malekith never shows any regret on what he did, nor attempts to "redeem" himself, according to those who have read the book.
Finally, blaming his mother for his decissions does not free him from blame. If anything, it just shows yet another fault: lack of character. Specially when he was the one to imprision her in the first place, so he should have known that she wasn't the best company.

I'm a bit happier, after someone said that many elves joined Alith Anar in a neutral faction, and that Alith Anar did indeed shoot to kill.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:15 pm 
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Taking the thread in a slightly different direction, regarding the Prophecy of Demise. People have speculated that it would be Tyrion, we know that's wrong now, or Nagash. But what about someone else? Does Archaon, The Everchosen of Chaos fit the bill?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:32 pm 
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EmpireUser wrote:
Almost half or more than half of the Empire is in ruin and our main characters are lost or dead with the exception of KF, it is a fact that the next Empire RB will contain new Heroes or the ones that survive filling the role of the old ones.

Funny thing Empire in EoT did almost nothing serious, just few more zombies in evergrowing army of the undead. Brettonians on other hand fought most major battle and did it much better than big armies of Empire. But maybe i reading all wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:21 pm 
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Shadeseraph wrote:
Now, EmpireUser, I'll tackle your post bit by bit.

EmpireUser wrote:
Hi there my fellow Elf Allies (and DE for that matter). As I go through the full 35 pages I just wanted to post my opinión as an empire player on what might seem the main focus of this threat.
I know your feelings when you talk about loosing your main characters, the Empire just lost nearly all of the heroes as we know them:
Volkmar The Grimm (Dead)
Kurt helborg (Dead)
Schwarzhelm, Luthor Huss, plus Valten Lost in Action
Karl Franz (Dead and Rebor, most likely will die at the end of it all)
Balthasar Gelt (Now virtually Necromancer)

Almost half or more than half of the Empire is in ruin and our main characters are lost or dead with the exception of KF, it is a fact that the next Empire RB will contain new Heroes or the ones that survive filling the role of the old ones. The main issue here (personal opinión) is that for you Elf players is hard to accept what is happening to your race because elves do not Age and your Heroes have been alive for a lot of years (4000+).


I can't talk for the others, but I can say I'm not bothered about this. When tET started, I assumed that about every single SC was going to die. I actually wanted some of the newer characters (such as Eldyra) to live, rather than the old ones.

EmpireUser wrote:
On the other hand from what I read Malekith becoming the Phoenix King will be hard to accept from a fan point of view (only comparable as having Archaon leading the Empire) but it is in fact revealed that Malekith is and always was meant to be the Phoenix King, and that if he had stood in the flames for just a second longer he would have ascended (Probably because it is true that someone betrayed him).
Is the fact that he is the rightfull heir of the throne so hard to accept? I mean, you HE folk where wrong all the time, probably you have a hard time trying to accept you where wrong all this time (you are proud and arrogant as you only can be) and that the DE where in fact right.


So. Some God points you to a guy who has been murdering your family and friends for over 6000 years and says "he is your boss". Furthermore, he (the God) has shown that he is a dick, untrustworthy and has actually sabotaged your country because no one would rule it until Malekith had passed "his test". You go and accept him, right? Maybe it's because I'm an atheist IRL, but I can't avoid but feel that a god like that doesn't deserve worship, and being chosen by him would just be a negative.

EmpireUser wrote:
You just where slap in the face with the fact that he the PK and he just fought for what it was his all the time (his mothers playing a huge part in all the wrong he has done to HE). So if he finally finds that his mother was just playing him and try to reddem himself is that so hard for you guys to understand? (I can Imply he never was in full control of what he did??) for me it makes perfect sense. All elfs will follow if they where to swallow thei pride.


This is another sore point for me. Redemption grants you the right to be forgiven. It doesn't give you the right to rule anyone. And, on top of that, Malekith never shows any regret on what he did, nor attempts to "redeem" himself, according to those who have read the book.
Finally, blaming his mother for his decissions does not free him from blame. If anything, it just shows yet another fault: lack of character. Specially when he was the one to imprision her in the first place, so he should have known that she wasn't the best company.

I'm a bit happier, after someone said that many elves joined Alith Anar in a neutral faction, and that Alith Anar did indeed shoot to kill.


I can only say that if you have all the lore and background to define a PK and if you have a PK you should follow him, then following Malekith as the PK just seems logical. On the other hand, as someone already stated, the elves (as all the races) are facing extinction, so in general, HE players are considering just being oblitarated than forming an alliance with your worst enemy?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:36 pm 
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Tethlis, I'd find it funny if someone with your nickname didn't think like that. I like the banner quite a lot, too.

EmpireUser wrote:
I can only say that if you have all the lore and background to define a PK and if you have a PK you should follow him, then following Malekith as the PK just seems logical.


That doesn't follow. Revolutions happen all the time. Dinasties appear and disappear throughout the history, and that doesn't mean they lose meaning when they end. They are part of what you are just as much as your current position. They -made- your current situation. But that doesn't mean you have to follow the past blindly. Learning from it is one of the most important parts, and in this case we learned Ass-uryan is a son of a negotiable-affection-lady, so searching for your own leader is just as valid.

EmpireUser wrote:
On the other hand, as someone already stated, the elves (as all the races) are facing extinction, so in general, HE players are considering just being oblitarated than forming an alliance with your worst enemy?


No, most wouldn't. In my case, though, I would. I actually expected the end of the world to include High elves and dark elves self destroying. But that's me. And not accepting Maly's leadership isn't the same than not collaborating to survive.

And, anyway, it seems like GW took my position into account. While he doesn't have a faction list himself, Alith Anar took a good sizing of elves and parted his way. So have fun.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:44 pm 
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Tethlis wrote:
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I find that funny considering you fought for him ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:33 pm 
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Thanks for the upload Tethlis :wink: I'll just leave this here...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:50 am 
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Question for those that have the book. Does it address anything as far as mixing magic items? I'm assuming unless there is something specifically stating you can that army selections and any upgrades must be from the same book?

Oh, and:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:48 am 
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Yeah, Malekith - the Greatest Failure :) First, a puppet on the leash of his mother now on his potential wife and nephew. He is allowed to live be the deeds (treacheries?) of others. His actions led to the longest track record of failed campaigns in the history. Elven race is truly doomed if they have to follow him #-o

On another topic. Does anybody know what are the pre-orders the following week after ET: Khaine is released? Is it still fantasy related?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:35 am 
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I find it interesting that EmpireUser is taking the position he is on Malekith when the previous system was actually something the Asur and the Empire had in common: the top job is something voted on by a council of electors.

But yeah, for comparison's sake, it would be like if Sigmar had declared that Vlad von Carstein was the rightful Emperor. Sure, you'll accept his help against the greater enemy, but do you REALLY want him as Emperor?

There's also no intuitive reason why Asuryan would choose Malekith as the legitimate leader one who's supposed to lead over, say, Aenarion's firstborn son. The only reason for him being 'chosen' is as a realpolitik decision on the basis that it's easier to get the Asur to accept Malekith than it is to get the Druchii to accept anyone else, but if that was expressed in the book I expect we would have already heard about it by now. At this point, it really does seem like Asuryan just chose Malekith and sabotaged the people who still had faith in him just for the trollols. And really, while it's not the first time Asuryan has pulled a dick move... as has been said before, if this was a test, Malekith should have failed hard. He chickened out of the trial by fire, turned away from Asuryan, and spent six thousand years trying to exterminate Asuryan's faithful. Gods work in mysterious ways, but how any god could see that as something to be rewarded by becoming the god's chosen successor I don't even know.

It'd be like Khorne choosing Egrimm van Horstmann as his general and the vessel of his power because reasons.

Shadeseraph wrote:
Domine Nox wrote:
Well High Elves magic just went to silly degrees. So Loremaster of Hoeth now knows every single BRB spell. Teclis also knows every brb spell, plus end times spells. And the Everqueen knows every spell from Life, Light and High. Does anyone else have spell selections like this?


Lvl4 + High magic + book of hoeth + 4D6 magic dice = 14 castings of Soul Quench at +5. Who said S4 wasn't enough?

Slanns can also get a non-SC that knows every single battle lore spell and all the Battle lores End Times spells. Or get a High Magic Loremaster.

Which brings up an interesting question... how DOES the End Time Magic rules interact with the Slann High Magic attribute? Do they get a new lore for free every time they successfully cast a High Magic spell?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:01 am 
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Quote:
it really does seem like Games Workshop just chose Malekith and sabotaged the people who still had faith in him just for the trollols.


It needed a little fixing.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:24 am 
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Quote:
Question for those that have the book. Does it address anything as far as mixing magic items? I'm assuming unless there is something specifically stating you can that army selections and any upgrades must be from the same book?


Your assumption is correct as far as I can tell: no mixing of choices, selections have to come from the separate books. I suppose it´s too bad you can´t have the Star Lance on a Cloak Dreadlord with TOTS or BOTWD on a fast-cav mounted 1+ mundane Master ;)

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Elven race is truly doomed if they have to follow him #-o


They don´t have to. They choose to. For the time being at least.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:27 am 
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Yeah, Malekith - the Greatest Failure :)


You seem bitter :P

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:43 am 
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T.D. wrote:
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Yeah, Malekith - the Greatest Failure :)


You seem bitter :P


And you seem like a troll. No more flamebaits. Either contribute to the thread or stay silent.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
T.D. wrote:
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Yeah, Malekith - the Greatest Failure :)


You seem bitter :P


And you seem like a troll. No more flamebaits. Either contribute to the thread or stay silent.


:lol:

Swordmaster has made the same comments on Druchii.net and I chose to respond here, the tongue out emoticon suggesting that I was poking fun. We've been responding to Swordmaster's comments on Druchii.net in good spirit. No ban threats or mod mode. All of my "trolling" here is supposed to be poking fun at the circumstances we have (collectively) found ourselves in.

If you can't find humour in the reversal that is Malekith becoming King of the Elves then the immediate future of fantasy battle is going to seem pretty bleak...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:12 pm 
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No wonder the comments on Druchii are in good spirit - Malekith finally got what he wanted for all these years. Here on Ulthuan, we are seeing nerd rage the likes of which has not occured since 8th edition came out. In order to try and keep these threads somewhat on topic then, I would appreciate if the pokes could be kept to a minimum. If you take a look around I am sure you can understand where I´m coming from.

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If you can't find humour in the reversal that is Malekith becoming King of the Elves then the immediate future of fantasy battle is going to seem pretty bleak...


There´s another thread here, a poll detailing the fluff in Warhammer: Khaine. I am among the ~10% on this site (according to the poll) who actually like these changes.

The future for our poor Elves is pretty bleak, regardless ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:12 pm 
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T.D. wrote:
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Yeah, Malekith - the Greatest Failure :)


You seem bitter :P


Maybe a little bit but nothing wrong in little poking between fellow outcasts :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:11 pm 
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My viewpoint is that I don't particularly care about GW's fluff decisions, because I stopped trusting GW years ago. I'm far more interested in how the community receives and interprets GW's choices, since it's the community that largely forms the rules around which the game is centered. GW can hunch in the corner with its relative insanity, spewing fluff and gameplay rules left and right, but it's what the community takes away from GW's incoherent money-grubbing ramblings that actually has me interested. 50% Lord allowance seems to be one major takeaway... While the rest is easily ignored.

If the community also chooses to ignore the Eternity King lists, etc. then I don't have much reason to pay attention to the fluff.

The thing for me is that I started reading the High Elf fluff a long, long time ago. They were like legends and fairy tales for me. I wouldn't change the Cinderella or Rapunzel legends because some idiot decided to write a slash fic of them. For me, the relationship between the Fantasy Elves is the same way. GW deciding to make a buck off of allowing Tyrion to resurrect skeletons has no relevancy to me whatsoever, unless the community at large starts allowing these rules into the mainstream. Since most groups and comps seem content to ignore End Times lists and End times special characters, I don't really care much about these changes. They don't impact how I play the game.

On a separate note... I wish GW had given at least some thought to making lists that were marginally themed or balanced. If the Elven End Time lists actually were divided up, so units like Warlocks went into one themed lists, Silver Helms to another, Dark Elf RBTs to one list, High Elf RBTs to another, etc., I would be thrilled with all this content. Forcing players to actually pick and choose what faction they wanted to play based off of loyalties, playstyle, units they enjoy, etc. would have been great. In the end, that's sort of a cardinal rule of game design right? Don't give all the choices to one faction, split the choices up so that players must choose the style and appearance they like best.

Instead, letting Billy the intern copy + paste every Elven unit into the Eternity King list just ruins any semblance of theme, fluff, and even ruins my desire to collect anything and expand on the miniatures I own. Cult of Slaanesh? Now that was great stuff, combining some Dark Elf units and some Chaos units to create a cool new force that was fairly balanced because it didn't contain many of the strongest units from both Dark Elf and Chaos army lists.

Here, it's just a lazy, sloppy cash grab with no thought to the hobbyist/gamer/collector in all of us. As a result, it's a cash grab I'm happy to ignore until we actually see GW introduce changes that are relevant to how people actually play their game.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:54 pm 
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What Tethlis said, albeit I think I'm less angry about it.

I think we'll continue to see a mix of stuff played. In the same way that uncomped 8th got played a lot but vast majority of comp imposed LoS's vs Dwellers after the initial 'test everything phase'. Variety is the spice and all that.

Whither 9th though?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:40 pm 
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Sorry, but I can't agree with that. We as a community have been bitching, moaning, and whining about the stagnation of the Warhammer timelines (both Fantasy and 40k). We finally get a huge advancement in the storyline and everyone gets upset. At least they're actually trying something as opposed to sitting on their asses like we've seen for the last 5 or so years. I also find it hard to digest your complaints about wanting more fluff lists. There are three lists in the book, not one. The Host of Aestyrion and the Host of the Phoenix King make the exact thematic distinctions you claim you want. Yet you ignore them for the Host of the Eternity King.

Plus, the Eternity King list itself does exactly what you want: it allows the players to decide what belongs in their army and what doesn't. I've always wanted Wood Elves mixed with High Elves for a better Chracian theme. Now I can get it. Tons of folks have talked about making pre-Sundering Nagarthye armies. Now they can do it even better. I don't see how you can complain about a list that allows maximum flexibility to make a theme when that seems to be exactly what you want. If I'm not understanding your complaints I sincerely apologize.I'm digging this End Times stuff, though. I fully intend to use it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:50 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
There´s another thread here, a poll detailing the fluff in Warhammer: Khaine. I am among the ~10% on this site (according to the poll) who actually like these changes.

The future for our poor Elves is pretty bleak, regardless ;)


I voted "I'll wait and see." Now I've waited and seen and I'm digging the changes. It's a huge shake up that isn't just the usual 'and then the good guys pulled it out at the last second.' I'm rallying around the Everqueen like a true Asur. If she says I have to listen to that annoying emo elf, I guess I can do it until Nagash blasts him back to the stone age.

By the way, do yourselves a favor and go check out this thread over on Asrai.org. It's hilarious.

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