Campaign of the end of times Rumors & Leaks

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Not sure if that comes directly from the book but:

The elves united under an unexpected leadership, acting as a barrier against the demonic host, who lead the Firstborn of the Dark Powers.

[Giladis]

Not sure if that comes directly from the book but:

The elves united under an unexpected leadership, acting as a barrier against the demonic host, who lead the Firstborn of the Dark Powers.

That is Google translate

It is from the intro section of one of the two books I would guess the background one.

So Be'Lakor comes against the Elves - interesting.

[Giladis]

And a possibly important twist ower on "What's new today"

Nagash has been resurrected several times over the millennia, his appearance and strength varying depending on the manner of his rebirth. This time, his resurrection is almost perfect. Every one of Nagash’s artefacts were gathered, sacred blood was sacrificed, powerful spells were invoked. Nagash is reborn and his form is monstrous.

To me that points to a possible flaw that can be exploited later in the storyline.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

I am obviously interested in that "unexpected" leadership part I wonder if that is somebody totally new or somebody we know very well. The fact that HE and DE are united for the very first time is mind blowing already. I can only imagine that there is one person who can unite the Elves - Aenarion.

[Casazzo]

I am not excited about 50% Lords and 50% Heroes.

All the carefully balanced point-values suddenly got thrown overboard.

[Marshal]

I am obviously interested in that "unexpected" leadership part I wonder if that is somebody totally new or somebody we know very well. The fact that HE and DE are united for the very first time is mind blowing already. I can only imagine that there is one person who can unite the Elves - Aenarion.

Gave me excited chills reading this, if only we would see Aenarion return for a time or campaign at least. I wouldn't be surprised though if this is games workshops idea to rebuild a failing WFB. A new story and characters are just what is needed. With Nagash returning and (i cant tell you where i heard this from) but there is also a rumour that due to the world in such uproar and forces of destruction growing too powerful, Sigmar will be making a comeback, i'm not an Empire fan but it would be nice to see the odds being evened out if it turns out that Nagash is working with Destruction.

Also a weaker rumour which i am not sure of is that a new Orc Warlord has arisen and there will be a new Waaagh! though there is nothing to back this up and i am unsure how this would fit into the campaign.

I wasn't playing WFB when heroes were the main focus so would love to see something like this return.

[SpellArcher]

Shades of JK Rowling in the Nagash resurrection thing?

My question is, will the new rules coexist alongside the existing ones, or will they replace them?

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

SA - at this stage people claim you actually need all 3 books, VC, TK and Nagash, to play the Legion of Undead. I would really prefer it to be true. Adding to the core set of rules (RB + Army Books) rather than replacing it. However, if the background is in 288 page book and you still need TK and VC army books, what did they put in 96 pages of the Nagash "Army Book"? Pictures?

[Giladis]

The other book includes rules and background blurbs for Nagash, Arkhan, Neferata, Manfred, Vlad, Krell, Valten, Crom as well as 15+ scenarios if those numbered skulls on the map are any indication.

So we get 2 pages for Nagash rules and at least 2 more for artwork (that Settra confrontation), 1 page of rules + 1 artwork page for the other undead, 1 page of rules for Valten and Crom, 2 pages for army selection, 2 pages for Lore of Undeath, 2 pages for Morgheists (rules and artwork), 2 pages for the map, 1 reference page, 15 pages for the scenario, 1 intro page, 1 credits page, 1 starting artwork page. Just this totals 43 pages, add to that the standard 18 pages for miniature photos and two pages before each section of the book and one page expalining the profiles and suddenly we are at 68 leaving another 18 pages for more artwork and random stuff.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Thanks, Giladis!

That really looks like a proper campaign then and gives some hope that it is not a replacement for the existing rules. I read on warseer that there are supposed to be three books for End of Times too.

[Giladis]

Not three, but three more - Chaos, Elves and Skaven. That will cover the WHFB releases until January. What will follow is Bretonnia in either February or March.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Even better! Although a pity Bret players would need to wait so long for their army book.

[SpellArcher]

Probably to find all their Special characters dead and the army list full of skellingtons.



A lot of Brett players were unhappy with the Grimdarking of their army in 6th edition. They wait 10 years for this to be fixed and then...skullz, skullz, mor skullz!

[Casazzo]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[Francis]

That cartoon made my day

[John Rainbow]

Sounds good! I'm really interested to see what the tournament scene take on the releases is and if we'll see some new stuff there.

[Galharen]

sad but true

[Curu Olannon]

Sounds good! I'm really interested to see what the tournament scene take on the releases is and if we'll see some new stuff there.

I doubt it`ll have any impact. Are there any tournaments running Storm of Magic stuff?

[Domine Nox]

But if the Army of Undeath counts as a fully legitimized stand alone army, it will indeed make a difference in the tournament scene.

[Giladis]

If anything I could see Undead Legions being made tournament legal considering the complete lack of sinergy between TK and VC models/rules.

[vespacian1]

Not to burst that translations bubble, but the warhammer:nagash iBooks description says "in the west the elves turn on themselves in a bloody civil war".

Not sure how to gauge the validity of one over the other, the sample of Return of Nagash makes direct reference to daemon incursions in both naggaroth and ulthuan during manfreds blood scrying adventure...

+1 for aenerions return and the model that goes with it.

[Curu Olannon]

Not to burst that translations bubble, but the warhammer:nagash iBooks description says "in the west the elves turn on themselves in a bloody civil war".

Sounds more like DE turning on DE to me to be honest. Slaanesh worshippers vs Nagarythe loyalists or whatever. DE vs HE doesn`t qualify as civil war any longer in my opinion. Could be HE vs HE as well, Cult of Pleasure v2.0

[Truthiness]

I am not excited about 50% Lords and 50% Heroes.

All the carefully balanced point-values suddenly got thrown overboard.

Pretty sure it was still 25% Heroes, but that's splitting hairs. I'm not worried in the slightest either way. I don't even come close to maxing out my Lords or heroes in my High Elf army at this point. Troops are point for point better in just about every case. Once you have magic and a battle standard, characters are a bit of a points sink. Now if they start making ridden monsters usable, then we could see a shift in the meta. However, I still see troops being more effective point for point. Even if a High Elf Prince on a Dragon has the same stat merging that we're seeing with the Mortarch and it's a WS7 S7 T7 I8 W10 A10 ASF, thunderstomping monstrosity, you're talking about somewhere around 48 White Lions for the same 625 points of the current typical Dragon build. That's a lot of freaking White Lions and they're not at risk of going down to a couple cannon shots.

Plus, you still have the core tax. That 25% more lords is coming away from things in special and rare.

[Giladis]

Based on the photo of the page it is 50% for Lords and 50% for Heroes.

[John Rainbow]

Sounds good! I'm really interested to see what the tournament scene take on the releases is and if we'll see some new stuff there.

I doubt it`ll have any impact. Are there any tournaments running Storm of Magic stuff?

Good point and I am of the same mindset. I just find it interesting that in 40k all this stuff like allies and changes GW makes get used whereas in the WFB scene it all seems to fall by the wayside. I guess none of it so far has the same potential to be broken like things appear to in 40k.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

1. Not all the games are tournament ones, even for people who attend them.
2. Tamurkan was allowed and it was "alternative" warhammer. I think it did have an impact (although smaller) and Nagash is just the beginning.

Some people will take whatever it is allowed to make their armies as tough as possible in the frame of certain composition pack. And as soon as something is allowed the arms race begins again.

I think it remains to be seen what the impact is really going to be as it depends how the new rules are going to affect the core set. For example, the End of Times is already considered to be a herald of a new edition. Would you stick to 25% lords/heroes if the 9th edition rule book allowed you to take more?

[Giladis]

Would you stick to 25% lords/heroes if the 9th edition rule book allowed you to take more?

I would be really tempted to include Prince on Star Dragon alongside Life/High Archmage every game.

[Truthiness]

Based on the photo of the page it is 50% for Lords and 50% for Heroes.

Yup, just looked again. My point, however, remains valid. Those points are coming out of what we were using for special and rare.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Hi guys,

@ Giladis

That is my point, people will be tempted to add something more to their lists as often they feel like they are lacking something but cannot afford it due to percentage limit.

@ Truthiness

You are of course correct that these points have to come from somewhere. But hey, you can get necromancer and start summoning the units during the game

On a more serious note I think people would start adding more heroes even if not going for full 50% allowance. Or simply fill the rest with they can afford and focus on running the hero hammer circus.

Also, just to add a little more to the background discussion, here is a short paragraph from the sample of the new novel, Return of Nagash that can be downloaded here: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer/r ... dback.html

Lustria’s death pyre flared up so brightly that the scryer winced and looked away. When he looked back at the bowl, the scene had changed. Red lightning lit the sky and strange mists spread down the slopes of the Annulii Mountains, bringing with them the raw power of Chaos unfettered. The land and its inhabitants became warped into new and terrible forms, all save the elves. The walls of reality wore thin and tore, and daemons flooded into Ulthuan. The forests of Chrace burned as the rivers of Cothique and Ellyrion became thick with virulent noxiousness, while in the heartland of the elven realms, the great cities of Tor Dynal and Elisia fell to the assaults of Chaos, rampaging daemons overwhelming their embattled defenders. As daemons scrambled in a capering, cackling riot towards a battle line of Sapherian Sword Masters, and elven magi drew upon every iota of power at their command to throw back their enemy, the image shattered like a reflection in a droplet of water, reforming into another scene of warfare.

Nothing much to add to something we already know but I must say I like that sample, it was a decent read for a change and if the entire book is like that it might actually be worth reading

[Prince of Spires]

I'm getting pretty exited about the whole thing to be honest.

From what I gather, The End Times is intended as a separate supplement to Warhammer. It is an extra set of scenarios with extra characters, rules etc. It also looks like it has a bit more to it then Storm of Magic did. They even gave the thing a separate logo. In that sense it feels more like what I expect 40K apocalypse to be like. Same core principles, just different ways of creating armies, different victory conditions and a different way to set up and play the game.

Do I think it will have an impact on mainstream tournament WH? No, none at all. Except for maybe allowing a new armylist in the Undead Legion. Other then that, I don't expect tournaments to suddenly change.

What I do think is that it will give a nice change from normal WH. Ever wanted to put 4 dragons on the table? Well, now it might just be possible (depending on core restrictions etc of course). Will it be optimal? Probably not. Fun? Definitely.

As a side note, if they do decide to merge prince and SD stats then the thing will be absolutely brutal. It will have virtually no weaknesses. Flying, ASF, WS7, S7, T7, I8, W10, A10, LD10, 3+ AS, 2+ ward vs fire before you start adding magic items? All the usual suspects don't work. No low I or S to take advantage of. High speed. And if you can still give the thing armour and magic items etc (and they affect the whole model), you can create some truly horrendous creations. You can easily have two of them in your army, give them a 4+ ward, 1+ armour save. They take something like 8 cannonshots to take down. Good luck with that. And then, you want extra attacks? Rerolling wardsaves? S8-10?

Also, the comparison to WL isn't completely accurate. Yes, you get 48 WL, but you are missing ASF, WS7, S7, T7, I8, flying. WL hit the dragon on 4+, wound on 5+ and have to get through a 4+ armour and 4+ ward save. That is 1 in 24 attacks dealing a wound. Or you need 240 WL attacks to kill something like that. On the other hand, the SD (with armour of destiny, sword of strife and dragonbane gem) with 12 attacks does 14 wounds (if you include thunderstomp and breathweapon). Yes, the lions are stubborn, but that is a huge difference in damage output.

Even more so because the SD has one more advantage over the WL, and that is force concentration. The SD can hit pretty much anything on the table it wants on a very small frontage. Just imagine what 3 dragons can do barreling into a unit (2 SD and 1 dragon mage). Or perhaps 2 and a frostphoenix (incidently, with a frosty in the mix, the WL would need about 700 attacks to kill the SD/prince combo).

Rod