Campaign of the end of times Rumors & Leaks

[Maxwell123]

I think, given that they are looking at pruning army books for 9th, I'd say the third army list with the survivors is most likely to simply be a merged version of the 3 elf armies, led by the surviving special characters. Many elf units will no longer be used. I wouldn't be surprised to see just a few of the key and most symbolic elite units survive. I think GW will use this as an opportunity to dump several too. I think Phoenix Guards and Black Guards will be gone for 9th edition. Witch Elves too most likely along with lots of others.

In terms of the gods that die, pretty sure it will be Asuryan and Khaine, maybe Kurnous too.

[Tech less]

Tech less

You've done a nice job summing up what I didn't want to type. It would take what's honestly one of the better villain stories in all of GW lore and then just make it all irrelevant.

But I fear it's the route that things are going to go. Thorpe doing some of the writing is part of what makes me think this. I remember reading an interview way back during the SoC campaign where he says he thinks Malikilith is the "rightful" Phoenix King, and that he was cheated out of it.

Did not know about the interview thanks , that would explain some things.
Sadly I agree with with your view about ruining one of the better villain stories for what appears to be a form of fanboy bias.
I sadly see this going the Tyrion murders finubar( because let's make the good guy the bad how clever is that ) malekith gets announced as the rightful king and passes flame( because let's wreck the background cos he's so cool) Tyrion draws sword ( whilst his uber powerful Mage brother does jackall to stop him other than tell him don't) Phoenix malekith meets evil dragon Tyrion , is about to lose so alith ( I exist for the pure purpose of killing malekith so I will go against this) shoots Tyrian in the face. Malekith dies heroically fighting the demons .
So far. Hope that I am wrong.
But going by the 2 leaked excerpts I think that anyone familiar with the fluff will be bitter. The one with with malekith and imrik - tell me you read that and don't cringe not at the absurdity of the situation and role players but the dire dialogue.' Shame you just butchered your own people welcome to the dark elves , it's cool though just give a good speech to the bereaved and they will march with you ' really? Wtf?
The other excerpt appears to trash teclis fluff - close conection with twin, practically telepathically linked leaves tower to rescue brother by risking life and soul to a greater daemon to save a brother everyone thinks is dead .Now he coldly doesn't give a stuff cos that's his personality . This is simply bad/lazy writing.

Contrast this with for example the old fluff for tethlis- great story, written across a few pages an implacable foe , in some ways similar to malekith , that puts to bed the idea that high elves are rainbows and kittens. But it is his death that is clever and ambiguously written - it works precisely because we don't know the truth. There is a takeaway for both sides for example if the bodyguard did cut him down they can spin it as an assassination the dark elves can spin it as we killed your king propaganda.it has an element of subtle complexity.
Malekith background as a villain has this complexity of character ( one of the reasons I really like the character) and twisting the story to have him as the rightly/robbed guy strips and destroys this.
An important part of his fluff is about what a sly, skillful and manipulative mastermind/demagogue he was by positioning himself as the lead and driving force in the hunt of the cults to use as a political tool to accuse powerful, innocent( and gather the guilty to him in nagarythe) and thereby tactically remove them as a threat to his plans.

Now what? We trash this level of Machiavellian complexity and make him what?
A clueless dupe to his mothers schemes?a real pure clean good guy wronged by some poncy jealous princes?How now do we reconcile his troops butchering unarmed princes in the story - they deserved it and he is still the good guy who would sail through the flames? ( this would trash the fluff about why malekiths forces had the upper hand in the beginning due to the tragic loss of what was left of the oppositions military leadership- caledor escapes this because he was not there).
There is again nothing to support the idea that he would have passed through untampered flames - he was tainted already by his deeds and actions.
Lastly the idea that (however far fetched ) if he passed through the flames there would have been no split is also flying in the face of the fluff , aenarions curse still is on the race and what would have stopped the elves opposing him to simply play the ' malekith tampered with the flames and therefore is not the rightful king ' propaganda card themselves?
In fact that bit of fluff where malekith accuses others of tampering works exactly because of its being a sly propaganda tool to legitimize his position after being thwarted so chalk another piece of subtlety being trashed.
Lastly with regard malekith, tethlis finds aenarions armour not malekith , in fact the way it is written is that the armor makes itself known to tethers and that somehow malekith is not deserving of finding it - I have always viewed it as denying him the legitimacy of wearing aenarions armor would have conferred to him.
Also tentatively waiting for the daft retcon that bel Shannar a fine warrior veteran of aenarions army and skilled politician was actually a craven cultist.

That all from me tonight , look forward to hearing others views on this and let me apologize for the dreadful grammar and spelling - autocorrect has been killing me.

[Shadeseraph]

The book was gone in about 10 minutes. This is madness.

PD: Got mine at 20:14 (GTM+1)

[Giladis]

You will be able to get softback in a week or two time, just as it is with Nagash and Glottkin.

[T.D.]

I for one welcome our new Druchii overlords!

Oh wait, I'm one of them

[John Rainbow]

I think, given that they are looking at pruning army books for 9th, I'd say the third army list with the survivors is most likely to simply be a merged version of the 3 elf armies, led by the surviving special characters. Many elf units will no longer be used. I wouldn't be surprised to see just a few of the key and most symbolic elite units survive. I think GW will use this as an opportunity to dump several too. I think Phoenix Guards and Black Guards will be gone for 9th edition. Witch Elves too most likely along with lots of others.

In terms of the gods that die, pretty sure it will be Asuryan and Khaine, maybe Kurnous too.

Do you really think that after redoing so many of the elven kits recently they are going to retire them all? I can't see it happening. It is a huge waste of an investment in moulds, etc.

[Voodoomaster]

well i am annoyed i went to order the bundles having returned from a trip up north and everything was already gone
rather annoyed

[Nightwing]

I think, given that they are looking at pruning army books for 9th, I'd say the third army list with the survivors is most likely to simply be a merged version of the 3 elf armies, led by the surviving special characters. Many elf units will no longer be used. I wouldn't be surprised to see just a few of the key and most symbolic elite units survive. I think GW will use this as an opportunity to dump several too. I think Phoenix Guards and Black Guards will be gone for 9th edition. Witch Elves too most likely along with lots of others.

In terms of the gods that die, pretty sure it will be Asuryan and Khaine, maybe Kurnous too.

Do you really think that after redoing so many of the elven kits recently they are going to retire them all? I can't see it happening. It is a huge waste of an investment in moulds, etc.

100% this. My take is that we're heading towards a system similar to infinity's sectorials.

[KelliStClaire]

I Managed to buy bundle + cards. Can't wait

[Lorindel]

First of all, I want to thank everyone for writing to this thread, I have really enjoyed reading all the stuff here. I really feel like I'm more excited about the whole game of Warhammer than ever before, thanks to The End Times: Khaine. I have been collecting High Elves for fifteen years by now, and there is no other way of playing Warhammer for me. Nor will there ever be.

Then secondly, I got back from work just now and went to check Games Workshops online store. What I found out, was terrifying. All the versions of The End Times: Khaine -book were already gone. I can't believe it. I can't believe Games Workshop could organize the whole thing so badly, that this kind of farce could take place. I feel so sorrowful right now. I'm going to write some feedback to Games Workshop when I'm a bit less angry, but right now I'm just furious. I don't know what to think.

Just wanted to share my feelings with all of you, my fellow princes. Hope at least some of you got the book pre-ordered!

[Orien]

First of all, I want to thank everyone for writing to this thread, I have really enjoyed reading all the stuff here. I really feel like I'm more excited about the whole game of Warhammer than ever before, thanks to The End Times: Khaine. I have been collecting High Elves for fifteen years by now, and there is no other way of playing Warhammer for me. Nor will there ever be.

Then secondly, I got back from work just now and went to check Games Workshops online store. What I found out, was terrifying. All the versions of The End Times: Khaine -book were already gone. I can't believe it. I can't believe Games Workshop could organize the whole thing so badly, that this kind of farce could take place. I feel so sorrowful right now. I'm going to write some feedback to Games Workshop when I'm a bit less angry, but right now I'm just furious. I don't know what to think.

Just wanted to share my feelings with all of you, my fellow princes. Hope at least some of you got the book pre-ordered!

I dont want to derail this thread so will only post the one comment, but I am always amazed by GWs thoughts in regards to their business model.

Producing the likes of limited edition cards etc when they know that the demand would be there if they would just continue to produce them rather than make them limited edition.

All that limited edition does is to actually divert revenue into the pockets of those who buy two copies and then carry out the sale of their spare edition on eBay etc,instead of seeing the funds making it onto the GW balance sheet by just replenishing stock once they all sell out.

Barmy

[Maxwell123]

I think, given that they are looking at pruning army books for 9th, I'd say the third army list with the survivors is most likely to simply be a merged version of the 3 elf armies, led by the surviving special characters. Many elf units will no longer be used. I wouldn't be surprised to see just a few of the key and most symbolic elite units survive. I think GW will use this as an opportunity to dump several too. I think Phoenix Guards and Black Guards will be gone for 9th edition. Witch Elves too most likely along with lots of others.

In terms of the gods that die, pretty sure it will be Asuryan and Khaine, maybe Kurnous too.

Do you really think that after redoing so many of the elven kits recently they are going to retire them all? I can't see it happening. It is a huge waste of an investment in moulds, etc.

No they won't retire them all. Just some. If they are going to be merging the 3 elf armies for 9th edition as many are predicting (it won't just be for End Times), then yes, I think some current units and characters will get retired.

[Ielthan]

My local gw stayed open late and is doing so every friday during this end times madness (and now 40k campaign stuff) to makes sure people can get the book/get a slice of the preorder revenue. I have to say they did a great job and I got my cards and end times khaine book without any problems. I know a lot of the online community seems to hate the company that brought them this hobby but their customer service is and has always been awesome. The fact that they were running and playing games with customers just made the experience better. They waited till everyone was sorted before the staff bought their copies. Also I know for a fact the manager doesn't sell the cards unless someone's buying the book too because without it he knows it's just a reseller.

Give your local gw a chance people! It's also great to expand the community, newbies get integrated into our group of more veteran players all the time through campaigns that they run. I've made some really good friends through it.

Also for the record the normal version of the book sold out in the uk in 7 minutes. The limited edition was gone in about 15. And they were saying fantasy was dying...

In regards to people who were sadly unable to get a copy, you'll be happy to know that the guy who's job it was to predict sales, has been sacked, he was shown the door a bit after the nagash release.

[Shannar, Sealord]

Give your local gw a chance people!

You mean the one that's 4.5 hours away? (If the trip goes perfectly).

[Ielthan]

Give your local gw a chance people!

You mean the one that's 4.5 hours away? (If the trip goes perfectly).

Sorry I guess things are a little different outside the UK.

[Shannar, Sealord]

Give your local gw a chance people!

You mean the one that's 4.5 hours away? (If the trip goes perfectly).

Sorry I guess things are a little different outside the UK.

Exactly. And I'm not sure GW understands that, and honestly it's where a lot of the complaining about GW come from. When they made it difficult for independent shops to stock tons of their stuff in the name of "helping support local shops" it had they exact opposite effect. Now in the event that I actually want anything I have to go to the web.

[Maxwell123]

Spoiler Alert.

This was just posted on Warseer:

So there is a sample in the Itunes store of the End Times Khaine Book with the section on Malekith the Eternity King.

It goes through how everything that Malekith endured prior to walking through the flames was just a test from Asuryan. Won't go into that.

However at the end of this section it goes on to say how Teclis schemed to unmake the Great Vortex and use it's power to make eight chosen mortals the EQUAL of the chaos gods. Eight corresponding to the 8 lores of magic. He intended to bind Fire to Malekith thus completing his transformation into a "beacon of light and hope" but instead treachery and misfortune ended up binding Shadow to him instead.

So Malekith is the chosen of Shadow. Nagash of Death. Alarielle of Life. And perhaps Karl Franz is perhaps Light? That leaves us with Fire, Metal, Beasts, and Heavens. Hopefully one of the dwarf characters takes on one of these lores. I cannot imagine anything other than metal.

REALLY excited as to where this is going.

For Fire, it could be Imrik, or perhaps even Caledor Dragontamer (very fitting) if he is freed as the vortex unmade.

I think we'll find Life may turn out to be some kind of merger between Alarielle and Ariel to become the embodiment of Isha.

[kbolster12345]

Give your local gw a chance people!

You mean the one that's 4.5 hours away? (If the trip goes perfectly).

This. Mine is 5.5 though.

[Count]

So Malekith is the chosen of Shadow. Nagash of Death. Alarielle of Life. And perhaps Karl Franz is perhaps Light? That leaves us with Fire, Metal, Beasts, and Heavens. Hopefully one of the dwarf characters takes on one of these lores. I cannot imagine anything other than metal.

So Raistlin Teclis don't anything for himself?

[Lord Soulfern]

I do not think any unit will be retired from the books, just reshaped since you will be able to play different eras, you are not bound to play end times. Last unit that was retired, if my remember correctly was the wood elf chariot, and Maiden guards back in fifth. No units were retired since than across all the books.

That could be a feature of the ninth. You have pre-end times, end times and post end times.

This hypothetical eras approach to the game will give it a very interesting twist and might work to expand player base by making learning curves and ability to play the game softer and shorter. In the same time, "satisfying" existing player base.

[Child of Caledor]

Ordered the novel and the cards, and my FLGS has a copy of the full Khaine book preordered for me

I wonder if, after seeing that chosen 8 mortals thingy, Alith Anar has to shoot Tyrion to stop him killing Malekith and stuffing up all of Teclis' carefully laid plans. This "decides the fate of the elves" by allowing Teclis' plan to go ahead etc.

Remember that even though Aenarion carried the Widowmaker he still wasn't totally invincible and died from his wounds, although going out fighting the avatars of the 4 chaos gods is an infinitely more badass way to die than being shot in the face from a distance.

[draxynnic]

If they're going to do it in eras, it might be interesting to see if they put out rules for playing further back in time as well.

But yeah, I could definitely see something like that becoming official. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot otherwise, I expect - for instance, I doubt I'd ever collect dark elves per se, but there is enough that I like in the DE list that I might consider adding to a post-ET list. Similar for the WEs, for that matter.

So Malekith is the chosen of Shadow. Nagash of Death. Alarielle of Life. And perhaps Karl Franz is perhaps Light? That leaves us with Fire, Metal, Beasts, and Heavens. Hopefully one of the dwarf characters takes on one of these lores. I cannot imagine anything other than metal.

Karl Franz has suddenly developed the ability to throw lightning, so I'd guess that he got Heavens rather than Light. Possibly as part of the same messup - but on the other hand, while Sigmarites generally tended to use powers reminiscent of Light, the Celestial College also seems to be one of those more strongly linked to what it means to be Imperial (one of the Imperial symbols being a twin-tailed comet, after all).

If Teclis is distributing them among the enemies of Chaos rather than trying to keep them to the Elves, then I'd agree that Metal seems likely for the Dwarfs. Light might have gone to Mazdamundi, and it's plausible Fire and/or Beasts could have gone to Imrik and/or Caledor. Of course, depending on how much GW maintains an awareness that the world is larger than Ulthuan and its surroundings*, it's possible that one or more of the avatars may be Cathayan or Indan.

*It's probably more accurately 'the Old World and places that are relatively easy to reach from the Old World'... but it boils down to much the same thing. Ulthuan is pretty much the center of the map of races with army books, although the Old World is the most concentrated.

[Shannar, Sealord]

if my remember correctly was the wood elf chariot, and Maiden guards back in fifth. No units were retired since than across all the books.

Along with a TON of other things (the empire lost a lot for example) including a couple full armies. I do hope/expect they learned from that and at least won't go quite so heavy this time.

When the 6e Empire Book came out they lost (and this is just off the top of my head)
Engineer War Wagon
Steam Tank (this at least came back later)
Halflings
Orges
Dwarfs
Halfling Hot Pot
Everything Kislev

Add in the core requirements that some people didn't have the minis for, plus the 0-1s all over the place, and there were a lot of people who quit out of the frustration of no longer having anything close to a playable army. Add in any units you bought as Allies or DoW were now unusable. It was pretty rough.

[draxynnic]

Well, technically you could still use Dogs of War, although YMMV on whether this is a good use of precious Rare slots. I think some books allowed taking allies from certain other books, also from the Rare slot.

But yeah, the Empire certainly got gutted. Possibly a good thing in terms of maintaining purity of identity in their list, but I can certainly see Empire players being frustrated there...

...but not as much as Chaos Dwarf players.

[aurynn]

Well we dont have any GW store in my country, but we could have placed an order with our LGS even few weeks before the actual GW preorders and I am pretty sure we will get our copies as always... You guys cant do that at your locals?

[Mireadur]

The whole story is ridiculous, and its got "gav thorpe" written all over it.

Best quality background destroyed in a stroke.

[Rabidnid]

The whole story is ridiculous, and its got "gav thorpe" written all over it.

Best quality background destroyed in a stroke.

He is always a worry.

[aurynn]

Fascinating... at the hour of our reunification we are split in half because how the events played out and how the story is told... Outraged at the prospect of unity of elves... at the rooting of the evil amongst us... gnawing at the wrongs of the past in the face of uncertain future... shielding with seemingly high ideals used in a profoundly wrong ways...

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Gav Thorpe is not my favorite BL writer but I always wonder how much freedom do they have really. Maybe he was simply told to write a story about unified Elves with strict directions how it should flow?

[Imrik Gwindorian]

So the Aestyrion is an army of those elves faithful to Tyrion, which is a load of high elves and khainites who recognise Tyrion as the incarnation of their lord.
The army of the Phoenix king it seems is malekith and the dark elves, the Caledonians that follow Imrik, the Phoenix guard, who have been ordered to guard Malekith by Caradryan, Saphery elves, who are following Teclis against Tyrion, and the wood elves who have sworn themselves to the Everqueen.
There is also a great peice of artwork where Khaine is bursting out of the ground, shattering the ground as an elf (presumable Tyrion) stands in front of him, sword raised. Khaine is mirroring Tyrion's pose. In the foreground there are lots of dead elves, a dead dragon and a dead Phoenix.

Khaine is shaping up to be a very interesting read. I hope me getting up at 5am next week will be worth it! -.-