@RogueSun: Pyramids and such also seem to be a general sign of the Old Ones - they were responsible for the design of the Lizardmen cities, and it's been implied that there may have been some cultural exchange between the Lizardmen of the Southlands and the early Nehekharans.
Baleanoon wrote:draxynnic wrote:First I've already done: Kurnous and Isha disobeyed him, and being given to Khaine was the punishment.
Second is a matter of relative power - he's weaker than the Chaos Gods and wasn't in a position to do something about it if he wanted to. Of course, that part, like elven souls going to Slaanesh, is an 8E import from 40K where Asuryan was explicitly dead and thus completely unable to do squat.
Ah and you realize that Asuryan never allowed his chosen king to be killed to defeated to the point of death. Phoenix Kings with the will to push on dying under mysterious circumstances, those who let Malekith be living peacefully.
The second is about keeping Khaine on a leash he apparently had no desire or ability to do so. Or poor Vaul? Basically your argument is Asuryan wasn't an ass because he knew he was over matched and then let his kingdom be further weakened by giving his children to his insane brother as punishment and thus increasing the mismatch... Sounds like a man after my own heart.
The question I'm asking is... when did all this fluff appear?
I haven't had the opportunity to read ET:Khaine yet and I don't read the BL novels, but the impression I'm getting is that all this is relatively recent retconning of the fluff in order to suit the End Times. And yes, this is retconning - you seem to be arguing from the position that all this was planned from the start, but unless I've somehow missed it entirely this thing about Khaine picking a fight with Chaos is just as new as the 'Great Lie' stuff. You seem to be taking the position that this is something that GW planned from the start...
...but GW has retconned their fluff on a regular basis. Compare and contrast the Bretonnia of 5E and the Bretonnia of 6E, for instance. With the High Elves, it's been more subtle, but mostly it's been acceptable (but note that there was also an outcry with the 8E book...). Nurgle having Isha is a retcon - a retcon they've made to bring the fluff in line with 40K fluff, a setting in which most of the Eldar pantheon, specifically including Asuryan, is dead and thus in absolutely no position to mount a rescue mission (in fact, what is left of them may even have reason to feel a degree of gratitude towards Nurgle for keeping Isha free of Slaanesh). Asuryan giving Kurnous and Isha to Khaine is, in that setting, presented as an act of anger of being disobeyed, one that he's implied to regret afterwards, but cannot rescind because undoing a command would undermine his authority (which is assholey, granted, but in a fashion that suits his character as the god of rulership). But he
does allow for Vaul to negotiate for their release.
Asuryan has always been one for harsh punishments, but nevertheless, a dignified ruler, and in previous fluff his assholery has been through acts of anger, not a deliberate campaign of sabotaging his own people.
At this stage, you also have to look at the reasons why people might have started collecting High Elves in the first place...
some part is just liking the models or the way it plays, but some people are also drawn to a particular race due to the fluff that surrounds it. For the High Elves, this can come in several forms - the tragedy of the war with the Dark Elves, their role as guardians of the world (one that, even in 8E with all the grimdarking that has been applied, still carries a sense of altruism - they've been retconned into being ruthless about the lives of others, but they're still taking losses they can ill afford out of a sense of responsibility for the world. They're influenced by Chaos, burying the natural elven instincts of compassion and empathy beneath overwhelming pride - but for them, that sense of pride has lead them to take responsibility for the world, regardless of the cost of themselves as well as to other races), and their sense of mysticism. That last is rendered completely hollow when it is made out that their chief god is not just flawed, but an ass of epic proportions - something that absolutely was
not required to take the story in the direction they wanted to, making it even more of a slap in the face.
All of the patronism in the world can't change the fact that the fluff now demonstrably
has been retconned from what it was fifteen or more years ago, and in a direction that leaves many people wondering if this is still a setting they're interested in.