Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

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Malaki Vidar
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Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#1 Post by Malaki Vidar »

Hi Guys,

Just thought today was the day to make it official and become an actual member of the community I have been watching over the last year.

A little about me, I am a former US Paratrooper, Bull rider, truck driver, roughneck that is now working IT. I have an MCITP in MS Exchange and Vista.

I bought my first High elf army in 2000 and got it painted and ready to go just as I got called to war. When I got back it was gone so in the last 14 years I've only been able to play a single game of fantasy.

Now that my son is old enough I am looking at making this a father son thing since ammo is so expensive so we can't go to the range any more. As far as tactics go I tend to favor quality over quantity.

The units that most appeal to me are the Sword masters and the Dragon Princes. So far I have only purchased a single unit of SwordMasters from isle of blood set to start building my army. In the coming days I'm looking to finalize a basic list and color scheme and will be looking for help in those area's along with suggestions for armies that would be a good fun match for my son to play against my army.

Malaki Vidar

UPDATE: 04-April-2014

I have received my 10 SMoH today for a cost of $15 US, and made a purchase of 5 Reavers for $10 US. Im now looking to start painting but I can't find a paint scheme to go with. Any ideas?
Last edited by Malaki Vidar on Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shannar, Sealord
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#2 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

Well does he have the same quality vs quantity preference? His age might matter a bit as well, as some armies are simply a bit easier to learn to work with than others.

If he'd want quality troops just as good as yours, I'd suggest Dark Elves as an always interesting matchup. If he'd want to outnumber you by large amounts, Orc and Goblins or Skaven are always fun. (With skaven you could even pick up the starter set, and it would be useful for both of you). But maybe he doesn't want to be "bad guys", in which case the new Dwarf book looks pretty good, and there is plenty of reason for elves and dwarves to fight.
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RE.Lee
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#3 Post by RE.Lee »

Hi there!

I'd also suggest dwarfs for a your son. Elves versus Dwarfs is a fantasy classic and gives opportunity for some epic battles without the nastiness of some of the more chaotic armies. The stunties are also pretty easy to play - reliable fighters and shooters, no need to move much...
cheers, Lee

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Teledor
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#4 Post by Teledor »

Also Ogre Kingdoms might be a good one too. Low model count, has a variety of phases to play in, and I think they have a lower learning curve than say Dark Elves, or High Elves. The other bonus is their neutral - ie mercenaries - so theoretically they could ally with your HEs if you find a local game store for team tourneys or what have you as both of you progress in the game.

Dwarves are another option as RE suggested. I don't know if the new book changed much in terms of their participation in the movement phase, but they don't do magic, so basically their strength is shooting and combat. Still seems a bit 1 dimensional for me, and I would think an army that your son could grow into & participate in all 4 phases would be best.

Anyways - it's all subjective! Enjoy the process and welcome.
Malaki Vidar
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#5 Post by Malaki Vidar »

Hey guys thanks for the replies,

He doesn't know anything about warhammer, wich is only slightly less then his dad lol. I was browsing the lists and books and thought maybe the ogres would be a good chance do to low model amounts / bigger more interesting models... Plus they aren't as "evil" as the others. My problem with high elves and daemons books is my religion and though I don't believe it's a big deal for older teens and adults, their codex's are to far over the limit for my 8 year old to be reading and idolizing. That's my personal opinion though. I myself play dark eldar in 40k (only about 10 games).

We dont get alot of bonding time do to him being as his bio dad's house on weekends so I really am looking for a way to connect, so Im trying to get a wow factor with the models. At least i think it seems like a good strat. Something not to hard for him to paint himself.

EDIT: By saying HIGH elves in bold, what I really meant was dark elves. lol sry
Last edited by Malaki Vidar on Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shannar, Sealord
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#6 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

Ah 8. That might be a little tough. There are a lot of rules that it can be a bit difficult to understand, and it's just a TON to remember. I would highly suggest trying to find a copy of a game from the 90s called Battle Masters. It is essentially starters warhammer and the classic good vs evil game (empire vs "chaos"). The other option would of course be to just drop or simplify some of the rules and then add them in over time. For example I might change the whole charge procedure and not worry about measuring things like wheeling, just change it to can they see, and can they move far enough to get there if you just measure from the front of the unit. Personally I like trying to maneuver blocks, but I can easily see it frustrating an 8 year old and turning him off to the game.

I started playing when I was right around that age, along with a couple friends and my little brother. We did not play it right. That was partly because it was very hard to find models (warhammer wasn't much of a thing in the US in 1987) and partly because we didn't really understand HOW to play it right. I do think I could have learned (strategy and tactics games have always come fairly easily for me) but we didn't have anyone to really teach us.
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#7 Post by Prince of Spires »

Hi Malaki Vidar,

Welcome to the forum. I've moved your topic to the warhammer fantasy section. You might get a bit more response there. Also, posts in "off topic" don't count towards your post count, and when you have 0 posts, your post has to be approved by a moderator (as an anti spam measure). So that will probably happen once more if you reply in this topic, and after that, you're free to post normally.

As for your question about what army to play, the best advise is probably to go with the army your son likes the look of the best. The visual part of the hobby is pretty big for most people. And you can spend an awful lot of time with the models (painting a unit can easily take a few hours for instance). So you had better like the look of the models you are working with. Of course, you can set some boundaries considering the age of your son. So not one of the 3 chaos armies for instance (Deamons of chaos, warrriors of chaos and beastmen). The other bad armies tend to be a bit more cartoony in their badness. Orc & Goblins are at the extreme here. They are very cartoony with some lovely models to match. Skaven are a bit in the same region, but they can have some weird rules in there as well. Vampire counts are just what you would expect from the label. Vampires with skeletons, ghouls etc. Dark elves are like High elves, but then bad. Some of their models might not be completely suited for an 8 year old though (with very scantilly clad ladies for instance).

If you have the big rule book, after the rules section, there is a section with pictures from the different armies with examples of the models. My advise would be to have a look through that with your son and see what he likes. At the level you will probably be playing at, I wouldn't worry to much about power level or competitiveness. Just pick the most fun looking army and go with that.

I would probably use the same logic when playing games. Don't immediatly use all the rules, but stick to some of the more basic mechanics of the game. So simple movement, measuring distances, combat and only use some of the "advanced rules".

Rod
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Malaki Vidar
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#8 Post by Malaki Vidar »

Thanks rdghuizing,

I wasn't sure why that was happening lol. Also thanks again for your advice all, i'll keep you posted as to what we go with.
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Loriel
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#9 Post by Loriel »

If you don't use magic you make the game lot more simplier and as many said having simple charges etc, will make it much easier to handle.

I wouldn't worry too much about background lores unless your son is really keen in to fantasy literacy. And if he is, then he is very likely to be affected by cliches of fantasy (for example good vs. evil battles) anyway from pretty much from every book/movie etc. If you just play the game you can pretty much ignore stories, for now ;)

One army that might work for 8 year old is lizardmen. Who could say that lizards riding lizards isn't nice ;) But they are "good". And they have nice cold blooded rule with solid leadership. This means they are not likely to run from battle. Skinks has skirmisher rule which makes them very ideal for new player since they are not moved like bricks. In my opinion lizardmen are rather "easy" to play.

Armies which I would suggest to be played by 8 year old (mainly since they have imo "low" learning curve) would be
- Lizardmen
- Empire
- Warriors of Chaos
- Ogre kingdoms
- Dwarfs

Armies that I would suggest against to be played (since complex ruleset, hard to play
- Tomb Kings (bolded since they are really hard to play)
- Skaven (many fun, but random complex rules... FAQ is 13 pages... that tells some story)
- O&G pretty much same as skaven
- Vampire Counts
- Wood Elves

from painting/modelin perspective Ogres are perhaps the best out there. Very big models, (few of them) big surfaces, details are big. Just try to give him White Lion box to assemble and you will find it in trashcan ;) Another very easy paint jobs is undead forces. Skeletons are perhaps one of the easiest to paint with "fast decent" result. Just use white base spray, add some color to weapons and then Agrax Earthshade. BAM! you got a skeleton. Zombies pretty much same add some other skin color. BAM! you got a zombie.

---------

One other game you might want to try is Warhammer warbands, mainly focusing on small skirmishes rather than big battlelines. Another game called Mordheim focus on few heroes. If he is interested in rpg type games in mordheim models gain experience, gain new skills and might even die.

I don't know how does your son react on winning and losing. I think that people shouldn't make it too easy for kids to win, but rather try to set the bar just right that is possible to win, but it should be because of abilities of the kid not because bar is lowered down... well this is extremely easy to say than actually implement it. I have 2,75 year old daughter so i am not there yet, but i hope i will give my child a decent challenge without crushing her / making it too easy for her.

One way to dodge this winning / losing issue is co-op playing. In something like mordheim it is "easy" to implement that there are these npc models that has some basic rules how they act and you play together against them. In warhammer setting that might be harder. Perhaps you could put huge undead horde against you and make it just walking toward you guys and try to face it together. This way you could "command both" enemy and your own forces and your son may focus on his forces alone.
High Elves since Aug 2010: Tot /W / L / D - 100 / 75 / 23 / 2
Tomb Kings since Sep 2013:Tot / W / L / D - 31 / 18 / 12 / 1

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Teledor
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#10 Post by Teledor »

Malaki,

Remember that you can always "house rule" the Warhammer rules to make it simpler for your 8 year old. It doesn't have to be the full blown rules with all the intricacies and conflicts.

As far as the religion aspect, there is quite a lot of background for each of the armies out there and most tend to have some form of god or gods that each race idolize. Perhaps you could avoid the background stories and focus primarily on the army/units rules. It is dark fantasy so there's lots of strife and conflict between the races. I would think though that you could edit the books in such a way, eg give him copies of only the unit descriptions and such, that he wouldn't be exposed to the more objectionable content until he is a bit older and gets the whole "fantasy/make believe" aspect.

Perhaps peruse the army books too at you local game store to get a better idea of the background of each army. I will second Rod though and suggest allowing him to pick the army he is visually most attracted to.
fransotto
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#11 Post by fransotto »

Malaki Vidar wrote:Hi Guys,

Just thought today was the day to make it official and become an actual member of the community I have been watching over the last year.

A little about me, I am a former US Paratrooper, Bull rider, truck driver, roughneck that is now working IT. I have an MCITP in MS Exchange and Vista.

I bought my first High elf army in 2000 and got it painted and ready to go just as I got called to war. When I got back it was gone so in the last 14 years I've only been able to play a single game of fantasy.

Now that my son is old enough I am looking at making this a father son thing since ammo is so expensive so we can't go to the range any more. As far as tactics go I tend to favor quality over quantity.

The units that most appeal to me are the Sword masters and the Dragon Princes. So far I have only purchased a single unit of SwordMasters from isle of blood set to start building my army. In the coming days I'm looking to finalize a basic list and color scheme and will be looking for help in those area's along with suggestions for armies that would be a good fun match for my son to play against my army.

Malaki Vidar
I suggest you start to take a look in what your son is interested in (which I believe is quite hard); Tolkien? Well then I guess dwarves, Orcs and Goblins might be interesting. Does he likes Narnia? Maybe beastmen, ogres.. Does he play computer games? I know World of Warcraft is a big influence of young kids nowadays. I have met kids that know just everything when it comes to WoW-fluff but knows nothing about warhammer or tolkien... The references of who the "good guys" are and "bad guys" in WoW is quite different from the normal "tolkien world". Does not appeal the old boys (like me) but I know the younger boys just love it.

I think you should just start He vs He and see if he likes the game. Then just let him choose whatever he likes. He want to mix Dwarves with goblins? Go ahead as your main goal is a "father-son hobby" skip the restrictions and just go for having fun.

Anyway I believe an Empire, Wood elves and Lizardmen army/modells can teach or at least maybe wake up some kind of interest in history as the influence from "european conquest time" is rather huge.
dundulin
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#12 Post by dundulin »

Hi, I also have an 8 year old that is learning to play. My advice would be patient(as always with kids), it is a complex game. You can easily remove shoting or magic from the armies to simplify things.
As for armies for a kid my son picked out the "dinosaur" army, he loves them. I ignor the army composition rules for his army so he always has a stegadon, carnosaur, terradon as well as a few krox and saurus. We have a great time bonding with warhammer(even if skylanders are cooler at the moment).

Have a great time with your son, he will love it

p.s. make it dramatic when models die he'll get a real thrill
Malaki Vidar
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#13 Post by Malaki Vidar »

Thanks very much for your input. I really like the lizard men to. I think both my sons will really like them ( the youngest loves dinasours but isn't nearly old enough to play lol). I am wanting to start out easy and advance in to the full spectrum as I would like him to go to tourneys.. or compete with with me in coop matches.

As far as clearing up the religion comment, Im not so worried about the mythology necessarily. I would only have an issue if he believed they were real or started worshiping the idols lol. I mostly meant I just dont think it is propper for a father to give his son a book that depicts rampant rape/ torture scenes as my Dark eldar book does or as the dark elf (so i heard) or chaos as they r demons. I would rather him not be rooting for the demons to win :)


The LM army looks pretty cool having large dinos and such, my girlfirend back in 2000 was starta lizard army and if I remember they were pretty fun to build. I think I will go with lizards since they have high magic :) Can they allie with HE? or are there rules against that like in 40k
Teledor
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Re: Hello All, I'm new here.. sorta

#14 Post by Teledor »

Ah. Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, the background has some rather graphic language. Best let him grow a bit before he gets to read that.

Lizardmen are in the "order" (ie good) camp along with High Elves, Wood Elves, Bretonnians, Dwarves, and Empire. I think the Lizzies would make a good choice. I never thought about the dinosaur aspect as being attractive to youngins.

As to picking a scheme. Check out the painting and modeling section and take a look at people's painting logs. One of the indexed links has a compilation of some of the best armies people have posted with lots of variety in terms of colors and techniques.
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