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 Post subject: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 7:27 pm 
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Ok, so haven't found a topic for this particular part of our new book and decided to create one. What are your thoughts on our new magic? Is it useful as the main lore? My initial thoughts are:
1. Shield of Saphery. Sounds good on the paper, but that means our squishy mages must be in our combat units to use it, so is it really that useful as most of us are thinking?
2. Drain Magic. Well this spell sounds great. Removing enemy spells from a unit is awesome, but it's a signature spell, so even a lvl 1 mage with dispel scroll could have it 100% of the time.
3. Soul Quench. Magic Missile, not bad, but nothing awesome. Good chance to 1 dice it with BoH, so pretty good in some situations.
4. Apotheosis. Pretty nice, but I think regrowth + lifebloom is definitely better? Am I wrong in this?
5. Hand of Glory. Pretty much a mirror of miasma, which is good, cheap and powerful. I like this spell.
6. Walk Between Worlds. Sounds pretty good. White lions on the flank of enemy units, turn 1? Yes please :) However, not really sure about the ethereal ruling. Can I move through units? Also, remaining moves sub phase. If I reform, how much can I move? still 10 or 20 inches, or 5 - 10? Or maybe somehow I can't even reform, lol?
7. Tempest. S3 large template is not bad, but what about that -1 to hit? Is it useful? Cause it may probably only help if you are expecting the charge from an enemy.
8. Arcane unforging. Sounds nice, but shall we use it much?
9. Fiery Convocation. Our weapon against hordes. Pretty good, even though pricey.

Basically it all sounds nice and good, but I'm thinking about it working with different lists. What kind of lists would work best with High Magic? My gut tells me, that Infantry heavy might be pretty good with it, otherwise, not so much.
What about Shield of Saphery, the thing there's probably most talk about. How would you make it have most usefulness? Mage in second rank of cavalry? White Lion unit?
And do you think it offers enough to deal with different kind of situations, or do we need a mage with another lore?
I, myself, somehow think, some of the BRB lores work better with our book, than High Magic. Please convince me otherwise :)


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:55 pm 
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Well, like with the old book that's going to largely depend on your list and what you expect to get out of magic. Also like the old book HM is full of pretty low casting cost spells. If you want to spam spells with the BoH it's a really good choice.

As to the lose attribute, yes I think people are currently overestimating it's usefulness. But in some situations it'll still be very nice to have.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:07 pm 
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First thing I noticed is how short ranged everything is.

+1 to casting and the ward save are both bonuses, but the lore itself is a bit meh.

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:03 pm 
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I think the power and usefulness of High Magic will not be as obviously apparent as other lores. It is a tactical lore, and the attribute has all manner of possible applications. It needs to be exhaustively explored, and people need to figure it out for themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Do_Trouble wrote:
1. Shield of Saphery. Sounds good on the paper, but that means our squishy mages must be in our combat units to use it, so is it really that useful as most of us are thinking?


Talisman of Preservation + 1 casting of any High Magic spell gives you a 3++ wizard. In a unit of Phoenix Guard it gives you a 3++ unit. When you combine this with Hand of Glory being the one spell you cast, increasing the WS of your unit by D3... well you tend to have a pretty survivable unit, even with the mage in front. This also opens up the possibility of using 5+ and 6+ wards on our mages, knowing that we can get them to decent saves pretty reliably.

Do_Trouble wrote:
2. Drain Magic. Well this spell sounds great. Removing enemy spells from a unit is awesome, but it's a signature spell, so even a lvl 1 mage with dispel scroll could have it 100% of the time.


Yep. This spell is pretty boss. It lets you really prioritize your dispel dice by allowing certain buffs or hexes through, knowing you can get rid of them in your own magic phase. Since we no longer have any means to acquire extra dispel dice, this is pretty important. Allow that Miasma through so you can dispel Okkams.

Do_Trouble wrote:
3. Soul Quench. Magic Missile, not bad, but nothing awesome. Good chance to 1 dice it with BoH, so pretty good in some situations.


This is actually a pretty boss spell. It's cheaper than fireball for both the small and big versions. Plus the big version has an extra d6 worth of hits. This is a nice spell to spam in shooting light lists as your mages can start clearing chaff pretty well. Combine it with Khaines ring of fury for lots of cheap magic missile goodness.

Do_Trouble wrote:
4. Apotheosis. Pretty nice, but I think regrowth + lifebloom is definitely better? Am I wrong in this?


Regrowth gives you more wounds, sure, but also costs more. A lvl 2 mage needs a 10 to cast Regrowth, which statistically needs 3 dice minimum to reliably cast. That same lvl 2 mage only needs a 7 to cast the large version of Apotheosis, which statistically means only 2 dice to cast. Since we no longer get extra power dice, saving one dice is significant. A lvl 4 with Book of Hoeth also has a decent shot at one dicing this spell while that same wizard would likely need 2-3 dice to cast Regrowth.

It's also worth noting that Apotheosis gives the model fear. This won't likely come into play terribly often as far as making your opponent take fear tests, but will likely be more important at preventing your own models from TAKING fear tests.

Do_Trouble wrote:
5. Hand of Glory. Pretty much a mirror of miasma, which is good, cheap and powerful. I like this spell.


This spell is the sh!t. Nuff said.

Do_Trouble wrote:
6. Walk Between Worlds. Sounds pretty good. White lions on the flank of enemy units, turn 1? Yes please :) However, not really sure about the ethereal ruling. Can I move through units? Also, remaining moves sub phase. If I reform, how much can I move? still 10 or 20 inches, or 5 - 10? Or maybe somehow I can't even reform, lol?


You cannot move through units, however you can move through any kind of terrain, even impassable. So if there is a building or similar in the units way they can pass straight through it.

If you reform you can't move. If you swift reform you can still move 10 or 20 inches depending which level you used as the spell is not a march. You may attempt a swift reform (assuming you have a musician) and move.

Do_Trouble wrote:
7. Tempest. S3 large template is not bad, but what about that -1 to hit? Is it useful? Cause it may probably only help if you are expecting the charge from an enemy.


This spell is the worst in the selection IMO. It can be OK against large blocks of lightly armored troops (i.e. us...) but at S3 the debuff will rarely come into play. Remember, the models wounded suffer the debuff. Single wound models will be dead, so only multiwound models (who are notoriously tough and/or heavily armored) can be affected by the debuff.

Do_Trouble wrote:
8. Arcane unforging. Sounds nice, but shall we use it much?


Are you kidding me? Of course we will! Most lord builds that make something unkillable, extremely killy or anything of the like is a combination of good gear, but destroy one of those items and it's suddenly not terribly effective. The Stubborn Dreadlord is useless without the Pendant or Crown. Even dangerous banners can be destroyed. This is a very useful spell. The worst part about it is that it's direct damage, so make sure you destroy items before engaging.

Do_Trouble wrote:
9. Fiery Convocation. Our weapon against hordes. Pretty good, even though pricey.


It's worth noting that this spell MUST be dispelled by your opponent if it goes up. They take S4 hits every magic phase if not - which includes their own. Even heavily armored troops are going to feel that after a few turns.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:28 pm 
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This spell is the worst in the selection IMO. It can be OK against large blocks of lightly armored troops (i.e. us...) but at S3 the debuff will rarely come into play. Remember, the models wounded suffer the debuff. Single wound models will be dead, so only multiwound models (who are notoriously tough and/or heavily armored) can be affected by the debuff.


Isn't it if the unit suffers an unsaved wound?


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:33 pm 
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I registered purely to answer this question, I have the book in front of me. If a unit suffers a wound from Tempest, key word unit, it suffers the penalty. Which means it could be a nice offensive version of Iceshard blizzard.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:37 pm 
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Shannar, Sealord wrote:
Quote:
This spell is the worst in the selection IMO. It can be OK against large blocks of lightly armored troops (i.e. us...) but at S3 the debuff will rarely come into play. Remember, the models wounded suffer the debuff. Single wound models will be dead, so only multiwound models (who are notoriously tough and/or heavily armored) can be affected by the debuff.


Isn't it if the unit suffers an unsaved wound?


It is ;)


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:43 pm 
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Just on the shield of Saphery, I more of a passive thing IMO, its protecting the Mages overall, meaning there is less chance of your Mage being killed by the end of the game allowing you to keep VP's and also keep on casting throughout the entire battle.

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:01 pm 
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Do_Trouble wrote:
Shannar, Sealord wrote:
Quote:
This spell is the worst in the selection IMO. It can be OK against large blocks of lightly armored troops (i.e. us...) but at S3 the debuff will rarely come into play. Remember, the models wounded suffer the debuff. Single wound models will be dead, so only multiwound models (who are notoriously tough and/or heavily armored) can be affected by the debuff.


Isn't it if the unit suffers an unsaved wound?


It is ;)


So the debuff will come into play fairly often then.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:17 pm 
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RogueSun wrote:
Do_Trouble wrote:
1. Shield of Saphery. Sounds good on the paper, but that means our squishy mages must be in our combat units to use it, so is it really that useful as most of us are thinking?


Talisman of Preservation + 1 casting of any High Magic spell gives you a 3++ wizard. In a unit of Phoenix Guard it gives you a 3++ unit. When you combine this with Hand of Glory being the one spell you cast, increasing the WS of your unit by D3... well you tend to have a pretty survivable unit, even with the mage in front. This also opens up the possibility of using 5+ and 6+ wards on our mages, knowing that we can get them to decent saves pretty reliably.

Indeed. I'm really liking this lore attribute. It isn't super amazing, but still good nonetheless. It combines good with Phoenix Guard, Anointed of Asuryan, Ironcurse Icon, Magic Resistance (can magic resistance bring it to 2+ ward? vs spells?), Deflect shots and 'sigh' Dragon Princes. For me it makes me able to do what I have always wanted to do, bring a big block of Swordmasters protecting an Archmage, without writing him off in the first combat.

Do_Trouble wrote:
2. Drain Magic. Well this spell sounds great. Removing enemy spells from a unit is awesome, but it's a signature spell, so even a lvl 1 mage with dispel scroll could have it 100% of the time.


Yep. This spell is pretty boss. It lets you really prioritize your dispel dice by allowing certain buffs or hexes through, knowing you can get rid of them in your own magic phase. Since we no longer have any means to acquire extra dispel dice, this is pretty important. Allow that Miasma through so you can dispel Okkams.

It's a cute spell, but most of the time, when an augment or hex is placed on a unit, your opponent will reap to benefit as much from it in his turn as possible, which this spell won't stop. Miasma's movement reduction will already have penalized you that turn and if you receive -1 T he will most likely already have shot or charged you. Still, it's not a bad spell, just not amazing. It does work wonders vs Slann Bunkers. Not a bad signature spell.

Do_Trouble wrote:
3. Soul Quench. Magic Missile, not bad, but nothing awesome. Good chance to 1 dice it with BoH, so pretty good in some situations.


This is actually a pretty boss spell. It's cheaper than fireball for both the small and big versions. Plus the big version has an extra d6 worth of hits. This is a nice spell to spam in shooting light lists as your mages can start clearing chaff pretty well. Combine it with Khaines ring of fury for lots of cheap magic missile goodness.

This spell is indeed much better than Fireball since we simply don't have to pay for the additional often useless range. Solid signature spell.

Do_Trouble wrote:
4. Apotheosis. Pretty nice, but I think regrowth + lifebloom is definitely better? Am I wrong in this?


Regrowth gives you more wounds, sure, but also costs more. A lvl 2 mage needs a 10 to cast Regrowth, which statistically needs 3 dice minimum to reliably cast. That same lvl 2 mage only needs a 7 to cast the large version of Apotheosis, which statistically means only 2 dice to cast. Since we no longer get extra power dice, saving one dice is significant. A lvl 4 with Book of Hoeth also has a decent shot at one dicing this spell while that same wizard would likely need 2-3 dice to cast Regrowth.

It's also worth noting that Apotheosis gives the model fear. This won't likely come into play terribly often as far as making your opponent take fear tests, but will likely be more important at preventing your own models from TAKING fear tests.

You said it. I have had trouble with fear even with the BSB. You are taking so many tests you are bound to fail one sometime. This also helps our 3++ archmages live longer in combat. ;)

Do_Trouble wrote:
5. Hand of Glory. Pretty much a mirror of miasma, which is good, cheap and powerful. I like this spell.


This spell is the sh!t. Nuff said.

I don't think you ever need to cast the full version, but it's still a cheap and cheerfull way to add some extra to your units.

Do_Trouble wrote:
6. Walk Between Worlds. Sounds pretty good. White lions on the flank of enemy units, turn 1? Yes please :) However, not really sure about the ethereal ruling. Can I move through units? Also, remaining moves sub phase. If I reform, how much can I move? still 10 or 20 inches, or 5 - 10? Or maybe somehow I can't even reform, lol?


You cannot move through units, however you can move through any kind of terrain, even impassable. So if there is a building or similar in the units way they can pass straight through it.

If you reform you can't move. If you swift reform you can still move 10 or 20 inches depending which level you used as the spell is not a march. You may attempt a swift reform (assuming you have a musician) and move.

This is one of those 'must dispell' spells for your opponent. This puts the speed in movement. Being able to race 30 inches in one turn is nothing to laugh at and can quickly turn the tide of battle if used properly.

Do_Trouble wrote:
7. Tempest. S3 large template is not bad, but what about that -1 to hit? Is it useful? Cause it may probably only help if you are expecting the charge from an enemy.


This spell is the worst in the selection IMO. It can be OK against large blocks of lightly armored troops (i.e. us...) but at S3 the debuff will rarely come into play. Remember, the models wounded suffer the debuff. Single wound models will be dead, so only multiwound models (who are notoriously tough and/or heavily armored) can be affected by the debuff.

It affects every unit it wounds, not models. The models only thing was mistakenly taken from the line that it every model under the template takes a S3 hit. But the -1 to hit affects the whole unit. What's more, unlike the sig spell of heavens this could potentially hit multiple units if you scatter the right way. But unlike that spell you can't cast it on a unit locked in combat. Casting it on a unit before you or they want to charge delivers dilemma to the enemy. Do I charge in with -1 to hit or do I wait a turn, hope that they charge me. Then you could just cast it again.

Do_Trouble wrote:
8. Arcane unforging. Sounds nice, but shall we use it much?


Are you kidding me? Of course we will! Most lord builds that make something unkillable, extremely killy or anything of the like is a combination of good gear, but destroy one of those items and it's suddenly not terribly effective. The Stubborn Dreadlord is useless without the Pendant or Crown. Even dangerous banners can be destroyed. This is a very useful spell. The worst part about it is that it's direct damage, so make sure you destroy items before engaging.

What you said basically. I'm happy a variant of Vaul's unmaking made it in. It's also neatly combined with a lore of metal snipe. Depending on the magic items, this is also a spell that needs to be dispelled.

Do_Trouble wrote:
9. Fiery Convocation. Our weapon against hordes. Pretty good, even though pricey.


It's worth noting that this spell MUST be dispelled by your opponent if it goes up. They take S4 hits every magic phase if not - which includes their own. Even heavily armored troops are going to feel that after a few turns.

Exactly. If they don't dispell it right away it will eat whole units. That, or their own magic phase is crippled if they try to dispell it in their own phase.


Personally I'm pleased with high magic. It's not the most powerfull of lores but it really complements our army.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:47 pm 
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Armilthuan wrote:
Personally I'm pleased with high magic. It's not the most powerfull of lores but it really complements our army.


I couldn't have said it better myself.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:11 am 
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Do_Trouble wrote:
9. Fiery Convocation. Our weapon against hordes. Pretty good, even though pricey.


It's worth noting that this spell MUST be dispelled by your opponent if it goes up. They take S4 hits every magic phase if not - which includes their own. Even heavily armored troops are going to feel that after a few turns.

Exactly. If they don't dispell it right away it will eat whole units. That, or their own magic phase is crippled if they try to dispell it in their own phase.[/quote]

Actually, it's better than that unless I've misread something. It isn't a remains in play spell. That means, I think, that once it goes off there is no way to stop it from roasting the unit every magic phase (outside of the high elves own drain magic), AND you can cast it again next turn. Seriously evil spell. In many cases more dangerous than even purple sun or dwellers.

I'd also rate the lore very highly. I like it quite a bit. I'd say the weakest spell is probably Tempest because you can't use it on a unit that you have just charged so you'll probably get minimal benefit from the debuff, but overall you can't really roll "badly" in this lore and not have anything useful to cast.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:56 am 
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The lore is nice, and I've been using it in all 3 of my games now.

HOWEVER..

The only thing that's a bit dodgy is the fact that a lot of spells is Direct Damage.

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:56 am 
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Do_Trouble wrote:
5. Hand of Glory. Pretty much a mirror of miasma, which is good, cheap and powerful. I like this spell.

RogueSun wrote:
This spell is the sh!t. Nuff said



I have to agree with Do_trouble on this one, I think this spell is great for such low casting. Just think if you decide to charge a unit of chaos knights or crushers with whitelions, casting this boosted spell on your WLs not only means you'll strike before them (not at the same time leading to a lot of dead WLs) but also you'll be hitting on 3s! Also just adding D3 to movement on a 5+ (which could be your last PD) will make your opponent a bit more standoffish giving you more turns and time to set up combo chargers!

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:04 am 
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datalink7 wrote:
Actually, it's better than that unless I've misread something. It isn't a remains in play spell. That means, I think, that once it goes off there is no way to stop it from roasting the unit every magic phase (outside of the high elves own drain magic), AND you can cast it again next turn. Seriously evil spell. In many cases more dangerous than even purple sun or dwellers.


Wait, what? I don't have the book because I've been in the middle of the ocean for a week and a half, but that surely must be wrong. It isn't RiP? That would make it one of the most broken spells ever. Cast and forget unit.

Are you sure you read it right? Otherwise it needs FAQing badly.

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:04 am 
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Avicii wrote:
Do_Trouble wrote:
5. Hand of Glory. Pretty much a mirror of miasma, which is good, cheap and powerful. I like this spell.

RogueSun wrote:
This spell is the sh!t. Nuff said



I have to agree with Do_trouble on this one, I think this spell is great for such low casting. Just think if you decide to charge a unit of chaos knights or crushers with whitelions, casting this boosted spell on your WLs not only means you'll strike before them (not at the same time leading to a lot of dead WLs) but also you'll be hitting on 3s! Also just adding D3 to movement on a 5+ (which could be your last PD) will make your opponent a bit more standoffish giving you more turns and time to set up combo chargers!


I wasn't disagreeing with him. I was re-affirming his reaction. Now if I had left out the word 'the' then that would have had a vastly different meaning. ;)

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datalink7 wrote:
Actually, it's better than that unless I've misread something. It isn't a remains in play spell. That means, I think, that once it goes off there is no way to stop it from roasting the unit every magic phase (outside of the high elves own drain magic), AND you can cast it again next turn. Seriously evil spell. In many cases more dangerous than even purple sun or dwellers.


Wait, what? I don't have the book because I've been in the middle of the ocean for a week and a half, but that surely must be wrong. It isn't RiP? That would make it one of the most broken spells ever. Cast and forget unit.

Are you sure you read it right? Otherwise it needs FAQing badly.


It's definitely a Remains in Play. Just looked at my book.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:07 am 
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Quote:
Actually, it's better than that unless I've misread something. It isn't a remains in play spell. That means, I think, that once it goes off there is no way to stop it from roasting the unit every magic phase (outside of the high elves own drain magic), AND you can cast it again next turn. Seriously evil spell. In many cases more dangerous than even purple sun or dwellers.

I'd also rate the lore very highly. I like it quite a bit. I'd say the weakest spell is probably Tempest because you can't use it on a unit that you have just charged so you'll probably get minimal benefit from the debuff, but overall you can't really roll "badly" in this lore and not have anything useful to cast.


What does the first 3 words of the spell say?

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:25 am 
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I played my first game today and had an Archmage with High Magic and a Loremaster. I found the lore to be quite underwhelming, much as I have found the entire book. I did most of my casting with the Loremaster. I was really hoping for more from the new High Magic and think there are much better options.

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:49 am 
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HERO wrote:
Quote:
Actually, it's better than that unless I've misread something. It isn't a remains in play spell. That means, I think, that once it goes off there is no way to stop it from roasting the unit every magic phase (outside of the high elves own drain magic), AND you can cast it again next turn. Seriously evil spell. In many cases more dangerous than even purple sun or dwellers.

I'd also rate the lore very highly. I like it quite a bit. I'd say the weakest spell is probably Tempest because you can't use it on a unit that you have just charged so you'll probably get minimal benefit from the debuff, but overall you can't really roll "badly" in this lore and not have anything useful to cast.


What does the first 3 words of the spell say?


Ah, I'm an idiot. Must be because I am very tired. Ran the broad street run today (10 miler) and I've never done a 10 mile race before.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:02 am 
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datalink7 wrote:
HERO wrote:
Quote:
Actually, it's better than that unless I've misread something. It isn't a remains in play spell. That means, I think, that once it goes off there is no way to stop it from roasting the unit every magic phase (outside of the high elves own drain magic), AND you can cast it again next turn. Seriously evil spell. In many cases more dangerous than even purple sun or dwellers.

I'd also rate the lore very highly. I like it quite a bit. I'd say the weakest spell is probably Tempest because you can't use it on a unit that you have just charged so you'll probably get minimal benefit from the debuff, but overall you can't really roll "badly" in this lore and not have anything useful to cast.


What does the first 3 words of the spell say?


Ah, I'm an idiot. Must be because I am very tired. Ran the broad street run today (10 miler) and I've never done a 10 mile race before.


Np, you should be proud of yourself. The rest of us are being huge nerds lurking on the internet picking out other's mistakes :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:19 am 
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HERO wrote:
datalink7 wrote:
Ah, I'm an idiot. Must be because I am very tired. Ran the broad street run today (10 miler) and I've never done a 10 mile race before.


Np, you should be proud of yourself. The rest of us are being huge nerds lurking on the internet picking out other's mistakes :mrgreen:


I appreciate that :D

Still a good spell though. The high casting cost actually works in its favor being RiP. Makes it suck a lot of magic dice to dispel, as already mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:44 am 
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The new high magic is quite nice but there are a few points I am really unhappy with:

Do_Trouble wrote:
1. Shield of Saphery. Sounds good on the paper, but that means our squishy mages must be in our combat units to use it, so is it really that useful as most of us are thinking?

I must admit our Lore Attribute is one of the things I am most disappointed about in the new book :(

Sounds nice, but is not that useful. The Problem is that only the mage and its unit receive the ward save.

Which units require such a nice buff? Units which are fighting the most dangerous units of the enemy in close combat. You simply cannot place an archmage for 285 points in such a unit! He would be killed rapidly, even with a 3+ ward save. Therefore, I miss the Folariaths Robe and Talisman of Saphery combo... :cry:

From that perspective the old Shield of Saphery spell was better.

What else, ok the ward save is quite useful for the mage placed in a unit of archers or something to prevent wounds from spells of the enemy, but that’s it.

In my opinion there are much better Lore Attributes in the 8 Edition and for me the Lore Attribute is a VERY decisive factor for each Lore, since every spell is affected. Yeah very unsatisfied I must admit...

Do_Trouble wrote:
7. Tempest. S3 large template is not bad, but what about that -1 to hit? Is it useful? Cause it may probably only help if you are expecting the charge from an enemy.

Complete useless spell IMO! Due to the deviation 6 inch max the spell is not reliable. Furthermore, direct damage? 3s plus deviation pffff cast on a 12+?! lol... A curse effect without damage, without deviation for lower casting costs would be a decent spell, but this one is sh!t...

But to close friendly: The general low casting costs are nice, Drain Magic can be very useful to save Bann Dices, Soul Quench is a solid magic missile, Apotheose is GREAT (if only the Lore Attribute would be better...), Walk Between Worlds gives great strategic possibilities, Arcane unforging is lovely and Fiery Convocation is a solid heavy hitter (not really lovely but quite nice). Please note in this regard that you can buff Fiery Convocation with the Gem of Sunfire to S5 in the first round.

Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:52 am 
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Quote:
Please note in this regard that you can buff Fiery Convocation with the Gem of Sunfire to S5 in the first round.


Wow, I completely missed that and you're absolutely right. Looks like you can use the Gem when you see that the spell went through too...

I was actually thinking about using the Gem with an Anointed on Flamespyre Phoenix. Gem, Golden Crown, Enchanted Shield and Ogre Blade, but yeah, you definitely found another use for it lol.

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:55 am 
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baerliner25 wrote:
Which units require such a nice buff? Units which are fighting the most dangerous units of the enemy in close combat. You simply cannot place an archmage for 285 points in such a unit! He would be killed rapidly, even with a 3+ ward save. Therefore, I miss the Folariaths Robe and Talisman of Saphery combo... :cry:


I think we just need to figure out Mage builds that are designed to be a bit more survivable. For instance:

Archmage
Talisman of Preservation
Power Stone
Fencer Blades

With one casting you've got a WS10, 3++ character. It's going to take quite a few attacks to land some hits, and then you've got a solid Ward Save on your side when you do. Not only that but you'll likely have the ability to heal any wounds you take WHILE bumping that save to a 3++.

You lose the BoH, but if your goal is survivability, this is probably the best we can do sans pushing the mage to a 2nd rank.


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:50 am 
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baerliner25 wrote:
In my opinion there are much better Lore Attributes in the 8 Edition and for me the Lore Attribute is a VERY decisive factor for each Lore, since every spell is affected. Yeah very unsatisfied I must admit...

In my opinion, most of the lore attributes are a bit meh. It's often more a nice gimmick then actually usefull. This one at least works with each spell in the lore and not just 2-3 of them like with some lores.

I actually see its use for a mage in a small bunker unit in your backline. Small units of 10 archers will still be used to bunker the mage. And there is a big gap in survivability of the unit between t3 no save and t3 5+ ward. It adds a lot of survivability to the unit vs shooting and even small units that normaly hunt archers/mages. It's not something to build your strategy around. But it's definatly nice to have.

Rod

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:31 am 
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In my opinion the lore atribute for high magic is GREAT!

It helps taking care of snipes without having to spendt 45 points on a defensive item. It saves point's on your bunker by making it more survivable, allowing you to take less models without greater risk. It also helps with potential misscast damage when it does happen since the spell always goes of before you do the misscast itself your unit wiill always have a 6+ or better ward against that. Again making a small bunker safer to use, wich goes straight to more points spendt on combat units.

In the one word from before. GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:52 am 
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Another thing I like about it, as other people have pointed out in different places, is that it makes all those 6+ wardsave items that you normally only realy take if you have points left over pretty decent buys. A 5+ ward vs template for only 5 pts?

Rod

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:07 am 
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rdghuizing wrote:
baerliner25 wrote:
In my opinion there are much better Lore Attributes in the 8 Edition and for me the Lore Attribute is a VERY decisive factor for each Lore, since every spell is affected. Yeah very unsatisfied I must admit...

In my opinion, most of the lore attributes are a bit meh. It's often more a nice gimmick then actually usefull. This one at least works with each spell in the lore and not just 2-3 of them like with some lores.

I actually see its use for a mage in a small bunker unit in your backline. Small units of 10 archers will still be used to bunker the mage. And there is a big gap in survivability of the unit between t3 no save and t3 5+ ward. It adds a lot of survivability to the unit vs shooting and even small units that normaly hunt archers/mages. It's not something to build your strategy around. But it's definatly nice to have.

Rod



A level 2 that takes the buff spells while the level 4 with the book of ashur and the talisman of endurance takes the offensive spells. Assuming things go to plan the lvl 4 should never have less than a 4+ ward, and usually be 3+ or 2+.

Edit. Eek!, this is an excellent idea! i think I have my character build for my first game sorted out :) . Talisman of preservation, power stone and fencers blades are another option for a really defensive build.

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 Post subject: Re: High Magic
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Yeah Shield of Saphery opens up a lot of options, especially for an archmage who can one-dice most spells in the lore reliably, especially with BoH. The more defensive among us can choose to make him nigh-invulnerable with Talisman of Preservation (and then facepalm as we see his entire unit annihilated by the Dreaded 13th or something....), and the more offensive among us who can expect to be 6-dicing Fiery Convocation at every opportunity can give him either Helm of Atrazar or that 6+ ward from the rulebook, knowing that he'll still likely be able to boost it to something reasonable, and invest in an Earthing Rod with the rest of his points.

The more interesting option might be multiple lvl 1s or 2s each boosting their own unit with a couple of augments, but I doubt I'll be doing that if I can fit in a Loremaster as my support mage instead!


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