Warhammer and Ancient History

Place to discuss anything related to tabletop wargaming that isn't covered by the other forums.

Moderators: The Heralds, The Loremasters

Message
Author
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#31 Post by SpellArcher »

Falsegods wrote:Historically there never was a 'Byzantine Empire' it was the Eastern Roman Empire.
Thank you!

Of course they spoke Greek but I think I'm right in saying that Greek in it's earlier form had always been the language of the Roman East anyway.

It was all Alexander's fault...

:)

Interesting point about the Turkish Emperor. I think there was a kind of legitimacy attached to the idea of Rome. Hence the adoption of the title 'Holy Roman Emperor' and the gradual acquisition of Roman culture by the Anglo-Saxons for example.
Falsegods
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:16 pm
Location: Zepherian

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#32 Post by Falsegods »

Indeed most educated western Romans spoke Greek even in at the high of traditional 'Roman' culture. It was only after the collapse of the West to the Arian-christian barbarian tribes that Latin gained status as a 'cultured' language. Which is interesting because until the late tenth -eleventh church Rome was under the nominal secular control of the Eastern Empire.

Yea there was a lot of politics behind the Holy Roman Empire, mainly at the manipulation of the Catholic Church against the Easter Orthodox Church. But that is off topic...
[img]http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k157/Falsegods824/SluggyBlade.jpg[/img]
BorkBork
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#33 Post by BorkBork »

yeah, i also find it pretty hard to pinpoint the high elves.
I never really considered them greek or roman. In a way Orcs show a bigger Roman influence then High Elves, but perhaps that is because i know a lot about the German provinces of the Roman empire and near to nothing about the east. (and i have lots of non GW orc models)
Alexandrian comes closer as do the successors (who relied more on the mix of archery and real heavy cavalry).

The long robes and armor also display a far eastern (persian/mongolian/chinese) influence.

The horse gear on the new reavers on the other hand has some clear roman features.

In other words: i dont have a clue :D
[color=#00FF40][b]BORKS WAAAGH ON DA WARPATH[/b][/color]
[url]http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=25246[/url]
fireblade
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Eataine

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#34 Post by fireblade »

They are atlanteans and... (never mind)

I would compare the high elves more to the british empire really: Isolated on an island, navel station throughout the world, connected with a strong navy, occassionally sending small forces to support whatever side they choose in a continental war, Independence of a realm on a new continent to the west.
[img]http://www.abload.de/img/afbeelding1b0f4.png[/img]
Nachri, Subcommander of the Vengeance of Vaul
11/15/8 (5 massacres), kills 227
henrypmiller
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:20 am
Location: UK

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#35 Post by henrypmiller »

Hi there guys. I hate to burst everyones bubble here but the High Elves are directly inspired by Thomas Mores work "Utopia" written in 1516. Having Studied it at uni I soon realised that this was the case. The book is basically a political/social fiction on a perfect sciety that lives on an island in the Atlantic Ocean (the islands even crescent shaped with its capital city - essentially Lothern, on the pinicale of the crescent).

Obviously its not a direct translation such as Empire being Germans, Tomb Kings being Eygptians and Bretonians being English and French but you can see that it has inspired the High Elves. I think they even have a citizen army from memory (this was a few years back).

Might be worth a read if you have the inclination however i warn you that its an arduous read.
henrypmiller
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:20 am
Location: UK

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#36 Post by henrypmiller »

Heres an excerpt

"The island of Utopia is 200 miles broad in the middle, and over a great part of it, but grows narrower at either end. The figure of it is not unlike a crescent. Eleven miles breadth of sea washeth its horns and formeth a considerable bay, encompassed by a shore about 500 miles in extent, and well sheltered from storms. In the bay is no great current. The whole coast is as it were a continued harbour, affording the whole island every advantage of mutual intercourse. Yet the entrance into the bay, owing to rocks and shoals, is very dangerous."
User avatar
Giladis
The Merlord
Posts: 2908
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:13 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#37 Post by Giladis »

henrypmiller wrote:Hi there guys. I hate to burst everyones bubble here but the High Elves are directly inspired by Thomas Mores work "Utopia" written in 1516. Having Studied it at uni I soon realised that this was the case. The book is basically a political/social fiction on a perfect sciety that lives on an island in the Atlantic Ocean (the islands even crescent shaped with its capital city - essentially Lothern, on the pinicale of the crescent).

Obviously its not a direct translation such as Empire being Germans, Tomb Kings being Eygptians and Bretonians being English and French but you can see that it has inspired the High Elves. I think they even have a citizen army from memory (this was a few years back).

Might be worth a read if you have the inclination however i warn you that its an arduous read.
Thomas More and Plato may have provided part of the inspiration but I heard it from the mouth of a GW developer that High Elves are the British Empire.
Lord Anathir
Posts: 3416
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:11 am
Location: Univeristy of Glasgow

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#38 Post by Lord Anathir »

I always thought ulthuan represented the british, with the dark elves being the americans. Nothing makes more sense to me, and it fits into the bretons being the french, empire the germans/spanish and the dwarf the jewish people (lost their original home and living in various places in the world and so on).
For the dwarfs, there was only this. Hammerson met Grombrindal’s gaze, and the White Dwarf nodded slowly. If it must be done, let it be done well. Whether they were dead or alive, that was the only way dwarfs knew how to do anything.

And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#39 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Well, I guess it would be a safe bet to say that inspiration is not copy-paste thing :) Whatever it was at the beginning evolved in time. I mean after so many years of Warhammer changing constantly, with new editions, new units, new characters it probably is impossible to narrow it down to a single nation for example. And even if it was like that at the very beginning, now we have the world that has a life on its own.

It is of course interesting in itself to find out what could be an inspiration, what was for particular game designer (and there were many who left their mark on warhammer) and what is for you in particular. Why not take an inspiration from your favorite historical (or fictional for that matter!) period and create a themed army?

As always topics have their own life too :) I remember I started that more to learn about what inspires you in military history to try and emulate it in a very simplified form in your games. Now we are more about the culture of Elves and Ulthuan as nation. Feel free to continue!

But to add something new from my own I must admit that recently I am more inspired by Mongols and their art of war. The more I read the more impressed I am by their discipline, skill and precise coordination in battles. Despite the fact they were barbarians, their armies were not hordes of uncountable warriors who won battles due to sheer numbers.

I am inspired by their maneuverability and swarming tactics. I wish HE had reavers in core so I could try and create all cavalry MSU :) Who knows, maybe I will be granted that wish with a new book!

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Gondarion
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:04 am

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#40 Post by Gondarion »

Giladis wrote:I have it on good authority that High Elves are the British Empire with fantasy influence.
My most recent game is a testament to that. It resembled the redcoats marching in ranks, in a very dignified manner, while getting shot to death by small groups of woodlanders :lol:
User avatar
Elithmar
Young Eataini Prince
Posts: 3669
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#41 Post by Elithmar »

Lord Anathir wrote:I always thought ulthuan represented the british, with the dark elves being the americans. Nothing makes more sense to me, and it fits into the bretons being the french, empire the germans/spanish and the dwarf the jewish people (lost their original home and living in various places in the world and so on).
I think the Americans can safely be called the 'dark elves' to the British 'high elves'. ;) They haven't had a holocaust of Dwarfs in the Empire (yet) though. ;)
"I say the Eatainii were cheating - again." -Aicanor
"Eatainian jerks…" -Headshot
"It was a little ungentlemanly." -Aicanor (on the Eatainii)
"What is it with Eataini being blamed for everything?" -Aicanor
Shannar, Sealord
Very Helpful Elf
Posts: 4031
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:10 am
Location: Patroling the Sea Lanes

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#42 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

The dark elves are clearly Canadian.
Aerendar Valandil
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:54 am
Location: The Free Republic of Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Warhammer and Ancient History

#43 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Canada, the country of angry housewives.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA
Post Reply