The Order of the Mage Knights

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Brian Mage
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The Order of the Mage Knights

#1 Post by Brian Mage »

Before anyone starts going on about how this gem is no good, or why a dragon is better, REMEMBER this is so those who want to use this FUN build can exchange ideas - So no trolling please

Also note that this nothing more than an extension of the post in the archives


"The Path of True Power lies in Balance"

To all of our Elven brethren who realize the true path of power lies in balance between the mundane and the magical, I present the Mage Knight Guild in all its fluffy glory, a place where dedicated Mage Knight users can find tactics on how to get the most out of their Mage Knight, gaming ideas, conversion ideas and fluffy stories.

First, what is a Mage Knight?
A Mage Knight is a Prince or Noble equipped with the Radiant Gem of Hoeth, creating a lvl. 1 Mage who can also fight and wear armour. There are numerous possible builds for this chap, any combination is acceptable, although some are just underpants. A Mage Knight sounds like he should be on an Elven Steed, well if yours isn't it is just because he left Cochise back at the stables, yeah? A Mage Knight can go into battle on Foot, on a Chariot, on an Eagle (EEEEEEEEAGLLLLLLLee) etc etc. Magic Weapons, Mudane Weapons, Armour from Vaul or Paul it matters not. Casting his spells with devastation/protection these Knight will bring glory back to Ulthuan.
A Dragon Mage is a very similar concept but lacks the armour so is a lot squishy-er although that has a payoff in the Dragon Mage abilities (extra PD's etc etc).
Eltharion is obviously a Mage Knight - He can even be classed as the Grand-Daddy of all Mage Knights. But since we have no GW representatives (that we know of) on these here boards he gets no place on the honour roll.
(either the DM or Eltharion can be discussed here if you please)

Where did this idea come about? I mean, its just an item in the magic item section!
The Original Order of the Mage Knights (although names are disputed) was envisaged by the great Siegfried VII. Special note should be given to Milliardo and Luna Guardian for their input too.
Most of us are RP'ers', RPG'ers' or people who are obsessed with the idea of chi in martial arts, or the 'Flaming Sword' Princes, hacking their way through enemies in full-on Jedi glory. Also, its cool, and as we all know, cool can sometimes trump good tactics, but even when it doesn't, its still fun.

How do I join the ranks of the prestigious Mage Knights?
-Travel the path of the Swordmaster, undertaking no less than 1,000 successful missions while dutifully serving the White Tower of Saphery for no less than 150 years and be officially commended by the one and only Hallar, most famous of all elven swordmasters.
-Gain proficiency in at least one of the eight winds of Aqshy, Chamon, Ghur, Hysh, Azyr, Ulgu, Ghryan, Shyish, or through successful manipulation of all listed winds.
-Light a sword on fire and swing it around. Make sure to post the video and not kill yourself. If you singe yourself, you're totally not allowed to join.

Alternatively, ask here to be added to the list. This is recommended for all non-elves, or humans with normal life-expectancy. Put a tag in your signature bar with a link back to this thread, along with what lore you're using on your Mage Knight.
Example:
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/viewtopic.php?t=32214]~Fire Lore Master of the Mage Knight Guild~[/url

(7th Ed spell ideas - this will change)
The Flaming Sword/Jedi Prince
-Seerstaff of Saphery. Choose Fire > Flaming Sword. Good at cutting down a powerful enemy.
The Bears' Anger/Martial Artist Prince
-Choose Beast Lore > Bears' Anger. Good at snashing up multiple enemies.
The March Blocker Prince
-Choose Life Lore > Mistress of the Marsh. Excellent at March blocking.
The Shadow Prince
-Lore of Shadows > Steed of Shadows. Useful for flying your Prince around the battlefield to take out warmachines and mages.

8th Ed Builds
FIRE
The Flaming Machine Gun Noble
Noble, choose Fire, Signature spell > Able to fire multi St4 hits over 24", great for hurting regen units if supported with more arrows
The Scouting Flamethrower Lord
Lord, Shadow Armour, Choose Fire, Signature Spell > Very useful for getting into an enemies back line to get at their war machines - Esp useful against Empire and Dwarfs (GW Spelling, not mine) though it is an expensive build

BEASTS
The Bus Buffer Mage Knight
Noble, RGoH, Luckstone, DP Kit. Choose Beats, signature spell. Sit in the SH bus and buff away before the charge (although technically I suppose it'd be after charge, but before CC)

METAL
The Alchemist
This is my current build, Standard DA, RGOH and Charmed Shield on Great Eagle; Choose the default Searing Doom and get in early on. This is exceptional against WoC especially with the Hell Canon. The normal Death Ld snipe will not work due to "Unmodified Leadership 10" as per the FAQ, however searing doom will enable easy wounds on this, with the Monsters and Handlers rules, it will be testing on a stupid Ld5 very quickly - no more pie plates of doom!
Obvoiusly a great spell agaist Warriors and Knights too. Don't fear the up rated version on this spell. Being on an eagle normally means you will not blow up your own troops and will cause significant damage to their battle line, which we can not do from range with bows
LIGHT

LIFE

HEAVENS
The Icy Albino Swiss Army Knife Blademaster Mage Knight
Noble, BSB, RGoH, Luckstone, Choose Heavens, Signature spell. A veritable feast of applications here. Once past the BSB and wrad save elements you also have a mage knight to give ranged and CC protection. Ememies at -1 to hit with BS range or 50% non-shot against none BS. Great support spell for CC as well. Enemies at -1 to hit and LD too. Low level casting to protect against MisCast

SHADOW

DEATH
The Suicide Bomber- no offense meant
Lord, RGoH, Shadow Armour, Seerstaff. Choose Purple Sun. Deploy out of harms way but on a flank of the enemy. Run out from cover and get positioned to launch the sun right down the flank. The closer you are to an enemy unit the better. Summon all you magical might (throw 6 dice) and launch the sun down the entire battle line. An IF will be a good thing here, because models which pass the In test, could have to contect with a St10 miscast hit too. I'm afraid this is beardy and not Elven at all, quite vampiric, but its handy for grudge matches!
This can also be deployed from above - stick him on eagle, drop the shadow armour


The Devine Order of the Mage Knights
Siegfried VII - The Shadow Steed Mage
~Milliardo~ - He Who Wishes Not to be Named
KnightSanguine - The Most Noble of all Mage Knights
Luna Guardian - The Bear Elf Mage
Rakai - The Elder Mage Knight
Brian Mage - The Mage who likes to Stab
Telabir - Mage Knight Master
Wamphyri101 - DeathKnight
Aethyr
Angel
Musashi
Kethnae - Arhain, The Mystifying Mage Knight.
SpellArcher - The High Magic Doubler Mage
Chracian
Bolt Thrower
Trains_Get_Robbed
geoguswrek
swarmtime
Franc
Prince Ascarnill of Tor Achere
Marastus - The Silver Wand Captain of Resurection
Ptolemy - The Death Chicken Noble
AsurionWhitestar - The Worlds Tallest Mage Knight
Tiralya
AiEthimar - The High Magic Mage Knight
Vanir
Idon'tmakecookies - The "Don't ask me to Cook" Mage Knight
Gildesh - The Rambler Mage Knight
akielzather - The Artistic Cavalry Commander
Tengal Krakenbane
Noble
Elithmar of Lothern
RogueSun
Sethai Ithilvarden
Csjarrat
RE.Lee
eriktheguy
Tristram Hepburn
PadForce
Eldria
thelordcal
Larose
Hawkoon
Nicene
lordoftheshadows (The Prince of Death)
dangit
Gorbatjorven
Avicii
.

PLEASE PM ME FOR MEMBER LIST UPDATES
Last edited by Brian Mage on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:06 pm, edited 35 times in total.
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wamphyri101
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#2 Post by wamphyri101 »

It's an Idea I have been toying with also, especially now the 8 lore’s of magic are being changed.

I’m interested to see what the new common magic items will be like as it maybe better to give him a few of them to support him.

Was thinking of having a Mage Knight lord in a unit of Sear guard supported by white lions and chariots.

Mine was:

Lord, Dragon Amour, barded steed, shield, Reaver bow, radiant gem of Hoeth and sword of might.
Not as tough but can act in every phase.

Magic:
Number of dice to use on what spell lore I like (supported by a mage or two also)

Shooting:
3 str 5 shots at BS 6 (or is it 7)

Combat:
2+ save and 4 asf rerollable str5 attacks.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#3 Post by SpellArcher »

I have never played High Elves without this item.

It's always been viable, perhaps now it will be strong.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#4 Post by Aethyr »

With Eltharion the Grim as your lord. A Dragon Mage and a Noble with gem of Hoeth.
Ok so it's a higher point sounding game but I can see it working, especially with the sounds of 8th edition magic.

I'll try it at least!
[i]The Dwarf begged the Dice Gods for Insane Courage on his re-rollable Break Test, failed to achieve it, and the Dice Gods mocked him horribly by giving him Double 1s for his flee distance immediately after. My White Lions promptly ran the Warriors down.[/i]
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#5 Post by knightwire »

wamphyri101 wrote:It's an Idea I have been toying with also, especially now the 8 lore’s of magic are being changed.

Lord, Dragon Amour, barded steed, shield, Reaver bow, radiant gem of Hoeth and sword of might.
Reaver Bow and Sword of Might are both Magical Weapon items.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#6 Post by wamphyri101 »

yeah im kinda hopeing that they might change that rule lol.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#7 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

Brian Mage wrote:Should the Order of the Mage Knights come out from they fortresses and roll once more the Elven Elite?
Are we even allowed? (we ask The Loremasters & The Heralds here x)
I don't see what the problem would be. I certainly wouldn't object to a revival... the old guild was very loosely organized and not really run by anyone in particular. I was just the loudest and most obnoxious member. :lol:

The only reason I stopped posting on it was that I got a bit sick of the internet version of Warhammer, as well as defending its viability in both public and private messages. It got old real quick. When the old forum was archived, I decided to just let it lay where it lies and give everyone a break from my personality.

On their viability in eighth, I'm not really going to weigh in until I have the book in my hands, but I'll no doubt continue running one in every list. Particularly interesting to me though are the rumors about the Lore of Beasts turning you into a monster, and the Lore of Shadows allowing you to switch places with another character.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#8 Post by Angel »

I've run a noble with the radiant gem for my recent games and it worked pretty well. All of these games were at 1250 points and I don't have any experience with it on higher pts levels. There always seems to be other items catching my attention all the time. I think it will get a boost in 8th edition with the new lores and rules for casting spells.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#9 Post by Musashi »

There's no argument that it introduces a jack of all trades character, that becomes more viable the more you constrain related factors; plus if you can tap into a large pool of PD, have no effective limitation on the number used per casting and can utilize two spells, it's worth considering.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#10 Post by wamphyri101 »

Its a shame there is this whole thing of "mages cannot wear armour" yet Malekith (Pre Burning) He could cast spells while wearing armour.

I think the whole theme of the high elves should be these magical warriors that can fire off spells and fight in combat. For now we ca only really do that with the Gem but I would love it for they would allow a magic upgrade like daemon heralds for High elf nobles/lords.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#11 Post by Aethyr »

wamphyri101 wrote:Its a shame there is this whole thing of "mages cannot wear armour" yet Malekith (Pre Burning) He could cast spells while wearing armour.

I think the whole theme of the high elves should be these magical warriors that can fire off spells and fight in combat. For now we ca only really do that with the Gem but I would love it for they would allow a magic upgrade like daemon heralds for High elf nobles/lords.
And Eltharion :P
[i]The Dwarf begged the Dice Gods for Insane Courage on his re-rollable Break Test, failed to achieve it, and the Dice Gods mocked him horribly by giving him Double 1s for his flee distance immediately after. My White Lions promptly ran the Warriors down.[/i]
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#12 Post by Brian Mage »

~Milliardo~ wrote:I don't see what the problem would be. I certainly wouldn't object to a revival...
Excellent, Well I for one am not averse to helping the maintainence of it. I tried to find you on the members list (~Milliardo~) but i didn't type the "~"s so i could PM you!

If people want to troll the idea then let them, tho I expect it would be a lot less so as the rumours of 8th (and magic seems pretty certain now) will really boost this build. It allows a different type of play, if that be defensive or aggresive. Beasts and Shadows look excellent choices if lucky with choice (seerstaff seems expensive).

Just if someone is in the Guild it obviously doesn't mean they HAVE to use one every game, but it just gives an option to Build, Paint, Name and Kit-out a specific model with which they can create a personality for. I always find games more fun when my characters have a personality!

I think there is enough interest in re-starting the Order. Once the new BRB/spell list is in our hands I think we can be more specific on builds but for now I think a Roll of Honour should be created.

And for any Trollers out there - Go home, its just fun!
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#13 Post by wamphyri101 »

I want the mage knight name!

(Yup Im 30 and wanna be a Mage Knight....how sad!)
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#14 Post by Musashi »

You could request the transfer of the thread, but with the new edition, tactics and operations would be revised in any case.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#15 Post by Brian Mage »

Yeah, it thought about asking but i think the same as you, tactics, builds etc could be different now.

We do need some nice fluff on the starting post tho...
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#16 Post by Luna Guardian »

For the record, I hate the Mage Knight name. I have since the day of it's inception. Now, with that out of the way, I've been using the Radiant Gem Prince since the 6th edition came out and thought that all you *shudders* Mage Knights might find this an interesting read (You older guys know this already, but it should be a good refresher course for some :wink: )

I'm all for folks coming up with new and innovative ways to use the Radiant Gem of Hoeth, but I don't have to like the name of the Guild.

All glory to Milli for bringing the idea of the Radiant Gem actually being useful to the wider public. I had the idea of the Radiant Gem Prince long before he even joined the site though :wink:
Last edited by Luna Guardian on Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#17 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

Here we go again...

Like I said to you in that PM about a year or more ago, the Mage Knight title wasn't my idea. If you'll check the thread, it has co-founder next to my name there. Mage Knight was a compromise reached between Siegfried and I... I originally wanted to go with Warrior Mage, because of the entry under the Dragonmage. Siegfried liked Mage Knight better, possibly because he played the game of the same name, and it didn't seem particularly objectionable to me so we settled on it as a title for our club. After all, its a Mage, its a Knight, and so Mage Knight felt apt to me. It does what's on the tin.

Call it whatever you want in your own games. Warrior Mage, Mage Knight, Warrior Wizard, Fighter Sorcerer, Tim the Sorcerer, whatever floats your boat. Nobody has actively forced you to like it (though you seem to think otherwise), and in retrospect a vote would have probably been a better idea. Then again, you can't please everyone all of the time. We needed a name at the time, and I have no objections to anyone changing it, at all. Titles, credit, competition and seniority don't mean much at all to me.

Secondly (and I'm not addressing Luna so much anymore as anyone else I've talked to in the past), and I can't stress this enough, I've never claimed ownership of this guild idea, or that I was the first to have the idea of putting a magic item printed in the book since 6th edition on a character. Before that was the Talisman of Hoeth, and before that was... well, a lot of things, like D&D.
I repeat, all I did was make a thread with Siegfried and prattle on about a particular magic item. It was considered sub-par at the time by a lot of people, and still is, and I don't think I influenced many with my mostly sophistic arguments.
I still use it, and I like it a lot, and that's great if you do too - I don't mind talking with anyone about it or any other item or unit or whatever, any day of the week, because I love this game. But, if you don't like it, I don't particularly care to argue it ad infinitem, because at the end of the day its still a game centered around having fun, just like Brian Mage said. Again, that's why I let it die. For me, it stopped being much fun really and became more about defending a point I didn't really care much about spreading in the first place, and I could care less about optimization.

And that's about all I have to say about that. :3

@ Musashi. I think we agree here, but your writing has become increasingly more cryptic and minimalistic as the years go by, and sometimes you lose me, possibly because of my tenuous grasp of the English language. :3
If you're saying that the Radiant Gem is more useful in smaller games at the moment, I definitely agree. I've always felt its power is in economy and versatility more than anything, and that definitely shows up more below 1,500 points. :3
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#18 Post by Musashi »

More or less - it's an item that bestows an ability that's pointless for a fighter character to have in larger games, but does become increasingly attractive the less points you have to play with. I have a fondness for 1500, though finding someone to play at that level is difficult in my area.

While as a High Elf player I like packing characters loaded for bear, having a total of 25% limitation seemed an interesting way to experiment on character optimization (so that's one raison d'etre for the RGoH gone), but unless the new rules actually present the player with a PD pool that's non dependent on Mage level, I suspect that the actual viability of the Mage Knight, or Warrior Wizard, or whatever term comes up, remains rather unchanged from it's previous incarnation.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#19 Post by Luna Guardian »

I'm going with Bear Elf, since the Bear's Anger was/is the best spell to give the prince in the 6th/7th edition

EDIT: Especially in the 7th when combined with a Mage with High Magic and Drain Magic. Makes the Bear's Anger harder to dispel


OH, and Brian, you mispelled your name on the namelist
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Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#20 Post by SpellArcher »

~Milliardo~ wrote: It was considered sub-par
But not by Rob Lane.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#21 Post by Brian Mage »

Luna Guardian wrote:OH, and Brian, you mispelled your name on the namelist
Err, no, you spelt your name wrong!... \:D/

Personally, I like the Mage Knight name, it reminds me of Monty Python or something. :lol:
Last edited by Brian Mage on Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights

#22 Post by Musashi »

Lion-O, you mean.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights - AKA Stabby Wizards

#23 Post by Brian Mage »

I'm sure its an obvious conversion but my unmade, unpainted and unused Tyrion now has a roll to play. Will swap over weapons to something else like that chap in the painting section, but will prob go for a massive axe!
[color=#FF0000][url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32214]The Order of the Mage Knights[/url][/color]
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Kethnae
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights - AKA Stabby Wizards

#24 Post by Kethnae »

I've used the Bear's Anger- Noble-Mage build in the majority of my games so far. Generally give him a GW as insurance against untimely dispels, and sometimes I'll hand him the Battle Standard too.
I play alot of dwarves, so I have considered trying out a Master of Metal Gem-Noble too. Grab Lore of Metal, take Burning Iron. Hopefully the true mages burn through the magic defense, then let the Noble lash out at that dwarf BSB. Melt his face off and have a good laugh all the way back to Ulthuan.
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Siegfried VII
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights - AKA Stabby Wizards

#25 Post by Siegfried VII »

Hhmm... I finally get a chance to get my hands on a pc since I started serving my time in the army and I see a revival of the (in)famous guild I co-founded with Milliardo. Now with the coming of the new edition and the changes it will bring in the magic there is a chance the Mage Knight "suits" will be more viable. Also the changes in the eight basic lores may have a possitive effect.

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

As for the setup I preferred the "steed of shadows" as my spell of choice. Many tactical uses.
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights - AKA Stabby Wizards

#26 Post by SpellArcher »

High Magic.

Shield, you get it off a lot, it wins combats for you.

Drain, useful back-up.

45pts, 2 spells, winner!
Brian Mage
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights - AKA Stabby Wizards

#27 Post by Brian Mage »

Updated - Sorry, had been away for the weekend
[color=#FF0000][url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32214]The Order of the Mage Knights[/url][/color]
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31665]My Painting Blog - High Elf Storm Troopers & Tree Hugging Hippies[/url]

It's the Schrodinger's Cat of rules. Until the FAQ, the interpretation can be inferred as both true and false correctly
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Chracian
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights - AKA Stabby Wizards

#28 Post by Chracian »

Whatever else I'm using, I always have (at 2k) a level 2 mage (which I'm now going to equip with a scroll and the seerstaff) and a BSB with the radiant gem. Cheap and efficient magic phase, which as SA says, means you can usually get shield off and drain is a decent back-up.

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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights - AKA Stabby Wizards

#29 Post by Bolt Thrower »

I think I may have to sign up for this! Ran a gem prince tonight and enjoyed it. Though his only success was getting an irresistable drain magic off, it was enough to convince me to try again and play around with some different lores to see what works best. I had him in a unit of Phoenix Guard and they were definitely the most valuable unit in a minor victory against lizards. They beat back a saurus unit with the help of a lion chariot and then stood up to a flank charge from an engine of the gods holding it down until reinforcements came to beat down the beast.
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Trains_Get_Robbed
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Re: The Order of the Mage Knights - AKA Stabby Wizards

#30 Post by Trains_Get_Robbed »

This is awesome!!!! :D I love using RGoH nobles and princes like its nobody's busniess \:D/ espically in low point games. I may try this fire sword thing to join :?: :shock: :? #-o =D> .

Also I would have to agree with Luna that knight mage isn't a super cool name. :roll: :wink: I think you all should change it to for example: knights of the book, ___ of the book, Order of the Wind Warriors (get it winds of magic, I know its lame :lol: :mrgreen:) Order of the Harbringers of light and fight? . . . :lol: =P~ #-o I don't know but something very epic sounding!
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