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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:55 pm 
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Fair play, I prefer the Gem to Eltharion but otherwise I agree.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:06 am 
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MERCENARIES


The Top Five Units for High Elves

I tend to make extensive use of Mercenaries in my army, it both has a basis fluff-wise (why die for your country when you can pay someone else to do it for you) and game-wise, since we have all those extra Special and Rare slots.

1. Ogre Maneaters - Strength 7; ItP; impact; 12"

2. Cannon - sniping; considerably cheaper than a RBT

3. Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks - really cheap skirmishers; BS 4

4. Vespero's Vendetta - Fear immune; inexpensive skirmishers; decent champion; Special

5. Leopold's Leopard Company - Pikes; ItP; Special; decent champion

6. Marksmen of Miragliano - Crossbows; BS4; decent champion

7. Voland's Venators - AS 2+; Strength 6 (charge); decent champion

8. Braganza's Besiegers - Crossbows; AS 3+; decent champion; Special

9. Golgfag's Ogres - Golgfag (6 attacks @ Strength 5; 4 wounds; Toughness 5)

10. Al Muktar's Desert Dogs - Fast Cavalry; decent champion; mini Battle Banner

11. The Cursed Company of Richter Krueger - Fear; decent champion

12. Ogre Leadbelchers - mini cannons

13. Asarnil - Moon Dragon; two Hero slots (and a Rare); good champion

14. Bronzino's Galloper Guns - decent champion; horse artillery


What I'd like to use (but can't):

1. Norse Marauders (including Beorg)

2. Dwarves (including Slayer Pirates)

3. Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz

4. Giants of Albion

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:46 pm 
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Quote:
The Top Five Units for High Elves


You got to 14!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:02 pm 
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I was sidetracked.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:20 pm 
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I wouldnt mind the kislev list. They had some good models... lore of ice, and a guy riding a polar bear!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:08 pm 
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I'm a little unsure if taking a Contingent takes away from the default Character and Special slots; also, Glorious Charge has outdated rules that can't really be applied.

Outside of that, the Ungol light cavalry, Gryphon Legion and Kossars are interesting selections. I assume that Bear Cavalry will end up as a Rare unit.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:28 am 
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MISCASTING IN COMBAT


A thought just had occurred to me, that if your Mage does end up in combat, where he's unlikely to survive, deliberating attempting to miscast might have interesting consequences, especially against the Ring of Hotek.

An AM would seen an unlikely candidate for this role, but how about the Dragon Mage and a 2nd level Mage, together with a Power Stone? Possibly more interesting with a cheaper Spellcaster.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:10 pm 
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TOURNAMENTS


Magic Comp

A thought occurred that if you are aware that there exists an absolute limit on the amount of Power Die that might be utilized per round, if the amount doesn't exceed nine, it might actually be worthwhile to take along the Annulian Crystal.

In the following example, an Archmage and Mage combination have default eight Power Die and five Dispel Die between them, with the Annulian Crystal they will have six Dispel Die to deal with eight opposing Power Die; and this would be before other counter-measures would considered, such as Dispel Scrolls and Drain Magic.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:14 pm 
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You are talking about etc format right? I agree. Annulian Crystal makes a difference there.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:06 am 
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TOURNAMENTS


Magic Comp

I am, or at least venues with similar restrictions.

The other thought that occurs to me would be taking along two Mages, instead of the Arch mage - this would suddenly leaves the door open for a Prince.

The two Mages would be a more defensive configuration, with the possibility of some sort of moderate offense. Ad in the BoS and you fulfill your quota of 9PD, giving the possibility of upto three spells with 3PD each, unless there's some tactical reason for more spells with less PD per. You'd still produce with the Annulian Crystal five DD versus eight PD, but if taking High Magic Lore, you can pump in two Drain Magics with three PD each, only one needs to succeed, and if it's the first one, you have the possibility to divert your remaining PD to either buff up your troops or attack his. Or take along two Dispel Scrolls and rely on them if you go full offensive.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:40 am 
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The only problem is that the whole investment is expensive point wise. Also I have seen many players have more than 9 power dice but using only 9 in etc. That means that your anullian crystal may end up just adding a dispel dice.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:00 pm 
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TOURNAMENTS


Magic Comp

That would depend on the precise rules regarding total PD used per turn, whether it's potential or actual; if it's potential, the above set up stands, if it's actual, it needs some minor tweaking. However, with two Dispel Scrolls, and points invested in a combat Lord, it may be that sufficient leeway is gained during the initial three turns for the opposing spell-casters to no longer pose any significant threat for the remainder of the game.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:01 am 
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TOURNAMENTS


Magic Comp

Actually, the easiest method to find out how the system works is by introducing an AM, a Mage, the Jewel and the BoS into your list; if it's allowed, then the answer would be total PD per turn (if the level were maximum 9PD per phase).

Teclis by himself could potentially produce 9PD.

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Last edited by Musashi on Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:02 pm 
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But isnt Mr. T a magic phase on its own?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:37 pm 
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I pity the fool!


Sorry, I couldn't resist. :P

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:31 am 
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Just got around to noticing your maneaters. How do they work out for you? How do you like to kit them out and how many do you take? They're relatively expensive, but do you find that they make up for the loss of a bolt thrower and an eagle, or both eagles? 2 costs about the same as a bolt thrower and an eagle, with almost equally effective shooting if you go brace of pistols. 3 seems to be more usefull overall and taking advantage of the great weapons seems like a good option, too.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:17 am 
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Maneaters are relatively expensive, but so are a lot of HE choices; they're also aren't suitable for every occasion, and should be deployed where you don't have to think twice on whether to flee (because they can't).

After 3K, it's an easy decision whether to use them, since with 6 Rare slots, sacrificing two for a unit doesn't cramp a balanced RBT gunline. With four slots, you do have to consider what you need to prioritize, and below 2K you need those two slots for at least one RBT (or artillery piece).

One model doesn't leave much room for attrition, and you'd be better off with a turkey/RBT combo for flexibility; two models are the minimum, and I find that four are the maximum, based on frontage (6.4") and manoeuverability; three is ideal.

You treat them as a rather expensive variation of White Lions with large weapons/Strength 7, who need the charge, are more vulnerable to missiles and more attractive to shoot at, with the same type of targets. Anyone with chariots is going to try and avoid them (or should), and you can send them off to deal with real annoyances, like Hydras and Steamtanks. You should also screen them before combat, and since they are ItP, you can flee through them.

RBTs, turkeys and Maneaters fulfill different functions in a HE list. Turkeys are to distract opponents or to look for targets of opportunity; RBTs are to decimate units before contact or snipe careless models; Maneaters/GW are to wreck havoc against cavalry, ultra heavy infantry (with support) and large targets, other infantry should be left to SMs.

While some might want give them handguns, this function is best served by the RBT, you want them out there, taking apart the enemy, and you may find Leadbelchers more to your taste.

Should you consider more than one unit? Probably not, unless you have 5K+.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:34 am 
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EIGHTH EDITION


Magic

Despite the spectacular lack of details, I'm going to do a little speculating.

If characters are capped at 25%, and it becomes altogether difficult to accumulate a really large number of PD and succeed in casting spells, the current practices of spell defence will probably be altered as well, which might take several forms:

1. Dispel Scrolls are nerfed.

2. Spellcasters are required to dispel more than one spell per turn; spellcasters must be nominated and can only dispel as many Spells as they have levels.

3. Spellcasters can only dispel Spells within a limited area.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:41 pm 
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Musashi wrote:
If characters are capped at 25%,


That'd be a serious lock-down. I'm generally looking at about a third of my points on characters and some players go a lot more. We'd be seeing a lot fewer Greater Daemons and Dragons at 2000pts which may or may not be a good thing. However, I'd consider a Daemon Prince in no way unreasonable at 2000pts but it would be very difficult to do.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:47 pm 
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It may also be part of their solution to deal with a magic system that doesn't scale well.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:34 pm 
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A solution that will see a crapload of goblin shamans, necromancers and other dirty cheap wizards will not balance the magic system imo... :(

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:41 pm 
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That thought, too, crossed my mind, and should have crossed that of the game designers, so there must be some sort of inbuilt penalty or overt restriction.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:29 pm 
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Then again, in small to medium games where PD or it's equivalent become harder to obtain, a 2nd Level Mage with an Annulian Crystal can face down 6 PD gross; on the other hand, where PD availability becomes abundant and isn't tied directly to the actual number of levels present, that same 2nd Level with a Silverwand and High Lore can field four spells.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:33 pm 
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EIGHTH EDITION


Core Units

If minimum Core requirement is 25%, and we don't get provided with either more unit options, or have some of the specials transferred back, it seems to me that the best choice to take would be LSGs, since you're going to be compelled to spend those points somewhere, and it might as well be for (a) multi-task unit(s).

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:07 pm 
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EIGHTH EDITION


Characters

Current rumours seem to point to a 25% limitation on characters, which certainly will have an impact on my line up of characters. Events made me recall the old Mage Knight thread, and I thought that would mean Eltharion, without Stormwing, would become a very good choice at lower levels, since you could take him together with either a BSB or another Mage, giving your force a mid range magic phase.

At the more generic level, the Radiant Gem becomes interesting, combined with High Magic, especially if PD generation is determined separately from actual number of mages present. It should give a minimum level of arcane protection at really low level games, while making your Mage General rather hard to kill.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:47 pm 
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DESIGN IMPROVEMENTS


Silver Helms

They're supposed to be Norman Knights, so a Javelin option might be interesting, though Throwing Axes would be more effective.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:10 pm 
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EIGHTH EDITION


Lothern Sea Guard

Having had a glimpse of the new edition, and assuming I'm correct that we have no minimum number of Core unit requirements, I wonder if it's viable to divide the table into basically five equal geographical areas, rather like zonal marking.

You equally divide your Core models between zones two and four; their function is purely supportive but large enough to attract your opponent; zone three (central), one and five would have units assigned as to the strategy you have decided on, though the anvil is likely to be assigned to zone three, the faster units positioned on the wings, which could facilitate either a switch in their axis or bypass/leapfrog of intervening units to try and reach the opponent's rear.

This is by necessity vague, since I'm still trying to figure out exactly how the other armies are effected.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am 
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FORMATIONS


Hunting Party

I actually kicked this idea around two years ago, and it didn't come to much, but basically, since the minimum size of an elite formation was five, to keep them in two ranks of three and two, possibly joined by a character. The downside was that you'd practically halved your combat power, but achieved greater manoeuvrability.

The downside no longer applies, however, it's now easier to wipe out such a small force; this seems rather viable with WLs and SHs, since no loss of combat power is inherent, less so with DPs and SMs, where you'd lose two or three attacks; not too sure if PGs would be worth it.

Any lonesome enemy character or unsupported war machine would be potentially vulnerable, as the (almost) full force of this formation could be targeted on them (and if you're feeling cocksure, even a character in midst of a formation, less so on the edge).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:27 pm 
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Good points. Might be worth a shot. Without command, they'd be cheap.

What concerns me is that they just might not have the speed to work. They're elves, but they're still infantry. 5 Silver Helms without shields are only 30pts more and are tougher, faster, and hit almost as hard on the charge.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:19 pm 
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Actually, speed isn't the part that actually worries me, or to be precise, the lag is only important in the sense it allows opportunities to eliminate these small units through shooting; while you might imagine that magic or interception should be equally worrisome, they're not because magic is a limited commodity and if some small detachment is being targeted, that's less arcane attention being focused on something more important, likewise with interception - Elves can take care of themselves against most opponents one on one.

Actual speedy solutions would be DPs or ERs - the DPs are expensive and you'd lose two-three attacks in exchange for manoevrability, basically three inches wide and four inches long; ERs have inbuilt manoevrability, but lack hitting and staying power once engaged.

SHs are slightly slower but cheaper; to a certain extent, it reminds me of the days when everyone had a pony to make up minimum core.

The infantry could have an additional function to get more champions on the table; I always gave Skeinsliver to one, which once the game starts is no longer required, and there might be a couple of other under 25 point magic items that could be interesting.

The main competition to this idea are GEs, since you could fit in two for the price of one Hunting Party, and do have an edge in movement.

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